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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G80 M3 / G82 M4 Forum (2019+) G80 M3 vs. Tesla Model 3 Performance

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      12-17-2019, 01:18 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
.....or maybe it's not hate at all despite TESLA's accolades. Maybe it's just a sincere dislike for the looks of the car or a sincere dislike for the driving dynamics (...acceleration notwithstanding; we don't really buy BMW's for that reason anyway). Maybe it's a sincere lack of passion about the car. Maybe it's the lack of a manual transmission option in an EV. Maybe it's.......


....I think you get the gist of what I'm trying to convey.

I'm sure you're happy with your TESLA. Your elation is felt through your words. Obviously you are passionate about the car and it checks the boxes on your personal checklist. For others it doesn't have that same effect. If somebody gave me one I would commute in it, but there's no way in hell that I would give up my MT ICE ///M car for one. There's no way in hell that I would ever spend my hard earned money on one either. IF I had such a surplus of cash - think, lotto winner - that it didn't matter (...and I already had a Porsche GT3 in my garage along with an M), I might consider one.
So what didn't you like about the Performance Model 3 when you test drove it? How would you compare it to the F80? I'd love to hear your feedback.

I happen to own a car with the S58 (along with the M3P) and the lag kills it for me, the 8 speed auto is lacking precision and hits redline even though you already clicked the paddle up in manual mode. Looks of the new G80 are hit or miss so here's to hoping BMW fixes the lag.
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      12-17-2019, 03:08 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by doberzus View Post
So what didn't you like about the Performance Model 3 when you test drove it? How would you compare it to the F80? I'd love to hear your feedback.

I happen to own a car with the S58 (along with the M3P) and the lag kills it for me, the 8 speed auto is lacking precision and hits redline even though you already clicked the paddle up in manual mode. Looks of the new G80 are hit or miss so here's to hoping BMW fixes the lag.
It's likable. I didn't really "dislike" anything because it was a friend's vehicle and I was merely enjoying the ride rather than evaluating it as a purchase option........like being around a woman you aren't attracted to, so you're neither evaluating the good nor the bad, but you're just enjoying the company because you have to be around her in/at that moment.

With that said, there's nothing overwhelming about it. It evokes zero passion out of me. I don't find the car attractive in the least bit (...which isn't to suggest that the car is ugly, it's just ambiguous to me and I feel indifferent about it). There's also no manual transmission option.

I'm not against hybrids nor EV's. There's merit to their existence, but not at the expense of an option to row my own cogs IF it were my sole mode of transportation. That is extremely important to me. Hell, I don't even want a PDK GT3, and I absolutely lust for that Porsche model. I am a diehard MT guy for better or for worse.

The TESLA is technologically impressive. It is fast! ....but those are just bullet points on a long list of considerations when considering a vehicle purchase. To me the car lacks soul, thus, I have no interest in buying one as an ///M replacement or as a sole vehicle. As stated earlier, I would only opt for one under certain conditions. IF my automatic transmission C230 commuter car went pop and a TESLA M3 fell into my hands at a cheap price, I might play with the idea of picking one up, but there would still be an ///M in the garage along with my Ducati V4 (...and a GT3 if I could swing it).
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      12-17-2019, 03:36 PM   #157
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Just ordered my Tesla 3 Performance a few days ago lol.
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      12-17-2019, 03:41 PM   #158
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Just ordered my Tesla 3 Performance a few days ago lol.
Let me run it through the canyons.
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      12-17-2019, 03:41 PM   #159
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The driving experience is truly night and day between the Tesla Model 3 and the M3. On paper, I think the Tesla Model 3 Performance will be leaps and bounds ahead of the G80, but as far as driving experience goes, there's just no comparison. I respect both platforms, but the Model 3 has a very sterile feeling to it, when compared to the F80 which is much more raw. It is definitely quite impressive what Elon has accomplished with the performance of the Model 3
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      01-12-2020, 09:35 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Let me run it through the canyons.
Update: Canceled my order.

Had to fully pay for my vehicle ahead of time since I'm in TX. Did that weeks ago. Got my VIN, purchase agreement, insurance, all set for delivery late Dec... then their stupid inventory system kept pulling my fully paid for car out from my account. Four times. The rep can't figure out why. When I call their 1-888 number I get different answers depending on the phase of the moon.

It's been slated for production for a month, however no one at the company including the sales reps, delivery advisor, etc. have any clue when it will be manufactured. So they have had $60k of my money for almost a month but no car. I'm also paying insurance on an non-existent car.

Tesla employees will randomly just ghost you completely. Sometimes you just get "this voicemail box is full" when you call them. When you email the delivery person they just go "we can't see the factory systems, we have no idea when your car will be built".

The internals of the company is a complete clusterfuck. At this point I'm so fed up that even if the car farts out rainbows and unicorns I'd tell them to shove it up their you know what.

Service right now is a nightmare. With BMW I can call them, usually bring the vehicle in the same week, get a loaner and be out in 15 min. With Tesla right now most service centers don't pick up the phone, you have to schedule it via an app and pray they text you back. They're out of loaners a lot of times and give you Uber credits That is if they're not backlogged on parts. Some people get in a crash and wait 6 months for it to get fixed.

Sooo... going to drive my low mileage F80 M3 for a while till the warranty runs out. Next options are M340i, M440i, or wait until 2nd year for G80 M3. I actually got a G20 330i loaner recently and loved the interior and ambient lighting.

Looks like I'm back at home with BMW for the foreseeable future.

Last edited by praxis218; 01-12-2020 at 09:42 PM..
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      01-13-2020, 07:17 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praxis218 View Post
Update: Canceled my order.
Wow - that really sucks - sorry to hear it.

My sales advisor was great and right on top of every detail, and my car was ready for me to pick up AHEAD of schedule. <shrug>
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      01-15-2020, 11:57 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praxis218 View Post
Update: Canceled my order.

Had to fully pay for my vehicle ahead of time since I'm in TX. Did that weeks ago. Got my VIN, purchase agreement, insurance, all set for delivery late Dec... then their stupid inventory system kept pulling my fully paid for car out from my account. Four times. The rep can't figure out why. When I call their 1-888 number I get different answers depending on the phase of the moon.

It's been slated for production for a month, however no one at the company including the sales reps, delivery advisor, etc. have any clue when it will be manufactured. So they have had $60k of my money for almost a month but no car. I'm also paying insurance on an non-existent car.

Tesla employees will randomly just ghost you completely. Sometimes you just get "this voicemail box is full" when you call them. When you email the delivery person they just go "we can't see the factory systems, we have no idea when your car will be built".

The internals of the company is a complete clusterfuck. At this point I'm so fed up that even if the car farts out rainbows and unicorns I'd tell them to shove it up their you know what.

Service right now is a nightmare. With BMW I can call them, usually bring the vehicle in the same week, get a loaner and be out in 15 min. With Tesla right now most service centers don't pick up the phone, you have to schedule it via an app and pray they text you back. They're out of loaners a lot of times and give you Uber credits That is if they're not backlogged on parts. Some people get in a crash and wait 6 months for it to get fixed.

Sooo... going to drive my low mileage F80 M3 for a while till the warranty runs out. Next options are M340i, M440i, or wait until 2nd year for G80 M3. I actually got a G20 330i loaner recently and loved the interior and ambient lighting.

Looks like I'm back at home with BMW for the foreseeable future.
That's what you get for being a traitor and trying to buy a toaster oven, lol
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      01-15-2020, 09:45 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by 6MTFTMFW View Post
That's what you get for being a traitor and trying to buy a toaster oven, lol
Hahaha True that.

I actually got a call from the Tesla advisor: they had inadvertently assigned me a placeholder VIN that would've never been manufactured. Every time their system removed the car from my account (because it would never be built, ever), it was doing the right thing but not giving a reason, so the reps just kept adding it back manually to my account over and over. I could've been sitting there months later wondering where my fully paid for car was, and even paying car insurance they asked me to get starting back in December. That's a new level of crazy for me!

At least they wired my money back pretty fast.

Leaning towards waiting for the next M3/M4

Based on the Tesla forums I went into ordering expecting it to be not a smooth process, but it turned into one of those nightmares. Never
again are they getting my money on principal.

There are tons of messed up delivery stories on the Tesla Club forums. People showing up to delivery except being told the car wasn't even shipped yet. Cars with dents telling people to "take it or leave it". Worlds apart from BMW. Even the worst BMW dealership is better than Tesla.
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      01-16-2020, 02:16 PM   #164
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A Tesla can’t match a BMW in build quality.

Its like comparing an Apple Watch to a Rolex. The features of the Apple Watch are way better, and I use it daily, but it will never replace my Rolex.
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      01-17-2020, 07:44 AM   #165
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I did a pull a few nights ago with a Model 3 in my M5. As expected it was very quick up to 60 mph and within half a car length. Once we got past 60 it started fading back pretty quickly. All of this was as expected.

I would happily drive a Tesla as a commuter car. They are quiet and efficient with decent technology. I view them as appliances and not something to get excited about. Perfect vehicle for my wife (have tried to get her to buy a Model X for a while) who could care less about handling, performance, etc.

I do think the interiors feel cheap and am frustrated by their refusal to offer things like cooled seats. A Model 3 at $35-45K is a decent value, at $65K no thanks.
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      03-02-2020, 10:26 PM   #166
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Interestingly Model 3 Performance is getting new software to help out at the track. Looks like it will have programmable memory modes for different tracks (similar to M1, M2 buttons), the ability to choose how much power is sent to the front or rear (can send 100% to the rear), along with other features such as adjustable stability control, regen, etc. Seems pretty cool, and even better can always be updated over the air.

https://electrek.co/2020/03/02/tesla...track-package/

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      03-03-2020, 08:54 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Interestingly Model 3 Performance is getting new software to help out at the track..
This is very cool news - perfect timing, too, as I plan to track my car in April for the first time!
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      03-03-2020, 01:00 PM   #168
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I'm curious about the track pack upgrade bits... how much do the wheels weigh? Are they forged? Are the new pads (and fluid) OK for the street or are they track-only compounds?

I'm a fan of M3P so this makes the temptation to get one even greater.
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      03-03-2020, 04:08 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by JTO24 View Post
I'm curious about the track pack upgrade bits... how much do the wheels weigh? Are they forged? Are the new pads (and fluid) OK for the street or are they track-only compounds?

I'm a fan of M3P so this makes the temptation to get one even greater.
Lots of speculation on those points already, but not much in the way of concrete evidence.

At that price, I'd expect the wheels to be forged, or at least "rotary forged".

I've yet to see a dedicated track brake pad that also worked well on the street, though there are plenty of claims out there suggesting that such a thing is possible. At best, if they really hold up under sustained track use, they're going to be compromised on the street, whether due to dust, or disc wear, or whatever.

Higher-temp brake fluid can be fine on the street as long as it's not contaminated.

Since I already have wider forged wheels, it's the customizable Track Mode settings that are the most exciting things. The fact that you can vary both the power/torque split between front and rear axles as well as the level of stability control intervention from OFF to "full nanny mode" is fantastic!

OTA updates for the win!
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      03-04-2020, 02:09 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Motor Trend just did a very quick review on the new Tesla Model 3 Performance:

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesl...rmance-review/

Starts at $64,000 USD, but it does 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. Comes with 450hp and 471tq. Not too shabby!
Pretty crazy that since this post the Model 3 performance has gotten two (I think) 5% power increases. The base price dropped from $69,000 to $64,000 (the price RPiM5's posts mentions). And the price dropped again from $64,000 to $56,990. And the previously $5,000 Performance Upgrade package is now a free option. That includes 20 Performance Wheels, Performance Brakes, Carbon fiber spoiler, Lowered suspension, Aluminum alloy pedals, Increased top speed from 145mph to 155mph (now 162 mph). Tesla also made autopilot (not full self driving) standard, which I think was a $3,000 or $5,000 option.
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      03-04-2020, 03:08 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZCD1 View Post
Lots of speculation on those points already, but not much in the way of concrete evidence.

At that price, I'd expect the wheels to be forged, or at least "rotary forged".

I've yet to see a dedicated track brake pad that also worked well on the street, though there are plenty of claims out there suggesting that such a thing is possible. At best, if they really hold up under sustained track use, they're going to be compromised on the street, whether due to dust, or disc wear, or whatever.

Higher-temp brake fluid can be fine on the street as long as it's not contaminated.

Since I already have wider forged wheels, it's the customizable Track Mode settings that are the most exciting things. The fact that you can vary both the power/torque split between front and rear axles as well as the level of stability control intervention from OFF to "full nanny mode" is fantastic!

OTA updates for the win!
Exactly my thinking regarding your points around the brakes and fluid. OTA updates are great! Depending on how the G80 pans out (I'm still ok with the big grills so far) I'll either go manual G80 or finally go 2 car and do M3P daily + 996 or e9x m3 ICE fun car.
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      03-04-2020, 10:26 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praxis218 View Post
Update: Canceled my order.

Had to fully pay for my vehicle ahead of time since I'm in TX. Did that weeks ago. Got my VIN, purchase agreement, insurance, all set for delivery late Dec... then their stupid inventory system kept pulling my fully paid for car out from my account. Four times. The rep can't figure out why. When I call their 1-888 number I get different answers depending on the phase of the moon.

It's been slated for production for a month, however no one at the company including the sales reps, delivery advisor, etc. have any clue when it will be manufactured. So they have had $60k of my money for almost a month but no car. I'm also paying insurance on an non-existent car.

Tesla employees will randomly just ghost you completely. Sometimes you just get "this voicemail box is full" when you call them. When you email the delivery person they just go "we can't see the factory systems, we have no idea when your car will be built".

The internals of the company is a complete clusterfuck. At this point I'm so fed up that even if the car farts out rainbows and unicorns I'd tell them to shove it up their you know what.

Service right now is a nightmare. With BMW I can call them, usually bring the vehicle in the same week, get a loaner and be out in 15 min. With Tesla right now most service centers don't pick up the phone, you have to schedule it via an app and pray they text you back. They're out of loaners a lot of times and give you Uber credits That is if they're not backlogged on parts. Some people get in a crash and wait 6 months for it to get fixed.

Sooo... going to drive my low mileage F80 M3 for a while till the warranty runs out. Next options are M340i, M440i, or wait until 2nd year for G80 M3. I actually got a G20 330i loaner recently and loved the interior and ambient lighting.

Looks like I'm back at home with BMW for the foreseeable future.
Sounds about right.
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      03-05-2020, 12:07 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Mingwan View Post
Sounds about right.
I'm still salty about it tbh.

Waiting for the new M4 intro. I don't mind spending $80k on a car if I'm not at the manufacturer's mercy like Tesla. Felt like an abusive relationship.
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      03-05-2020, 07:50 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praxis218 View Post
I'm still salty about it tbh.

Waiting for the new M4 intro. I don't mind spending $80k on a car if I'm not at the manufacturer's mercy like Tesla. Felt like an abusive relationship.
Tesla is a shady company. I don't know how many here listen to Spike's Car Radio but this show was a real eye opener.

https://overcast.fm/+JUAD44d_o

Full disclosure: I already didn't like the cars, but after hearing this (I also ordered the book) there's no way I'd buy a Tesla.
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      03-05-2020, 09:53 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubedreamer View Post
What do you think? Elon is aiming at the M3 with the P Model 3.

Intriguing or not? That electric torque is hard to beat.

I for one prefer the steering feedback and linear throttle of the old NA cars but you can't even get that in a BMW these days. So I guess electric is the future.
This is where bmw comes in, the i4 is going to be sick powerful and tuned by bmw who know how to tune cars. Hell maybe they make an i4M
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      03-05-2020, 10:00 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubedreamer View Post
What do you think? Elon is aiming at the M3 with the P Model 3.

Intriguing or not? That electric torque is hard to beat.

I for one prefer the steering feedback and linear throttle of the old NA cars but you can't even get that in a BMW these days. So I guess electric is the future.
This is where bmw comes in, the i4 is going to be sick powerful and tuned by bmw who know how to tune cars. Hell maybe they make an i4M
Its gonna be a long wait for an i4 M to happen. BMW US' facebook said they plan on delivering regular production i4's out sometime in the first half of 2022, and that's if everything is on time. I can't even imagine how much longer an i4M would take.
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