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      02-04-2020, 06:20 PM   #1
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Zero or Near-Zero Emission Formula One

Formula One is at another crossroads with the FIA making Formula E and official World Championship while Formula One is struggling to figure out how to make the cars follow one-another more closely. Here is my question for everyone: What are the options for Formula One to become more green while retaining it's unique DNA?

Here is my 2 cents' worth.

Hydrogen fueled engines with all of the current ancillaries on the ICE power units with the ability to rev to 18K to return the noise back to the show.

I know that the fuel tank will be a challenge but that's why we have engineers. This will allow much of the technology to be used from the current engines and there will be a variability between running a stochiometeric or non-stochiometeric mixture. This may be a way to preserve the sport we all love while moving into a more emissions-free footing.

Thoughts?
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      02-04-2020, 06:54 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post

Hydrogen fueled engines with all of the current ancillaries on the ICE power units with the ability to rev to 18K to return the noise back to the show.
Couldn't agree more, alternative fuel is what the FIA should have pursued all along if they really want to make F1 more 'green'. Ditch the hybrid systems altogether, fuel them with algae.

The reality of F1 is that it's an automotive freak show, and a sprint race at that. The FIA should save the 'green' stuff for endurance racing, keep F1 weird.
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      02-04-2020, 07:08 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Chihuahua View Post
Couldn't agree more, alternative fuel is what the FIA should have pursued all along if they really want to make F1 more 'green'. Ditch the hybrid systems altogether, fuel them with algae.

The reality of F1 is that it's an automotive freak show, and a sprint race at that. The FIA should save the 'green' stuff for endurance racing, keep F1 weird.
I wish it were still a sprint race. Go back and watch the races from the late 90s. No lift and coast. No brake preservation. No Cheese Tires. THAT was sprint racing!!
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      02-05-2020, 07:26 AM   #4
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I think part of the issue with a way forward is that the solution has to appeal to manufacturers participating in the sport (current or future). Hardly any manufacturer's are investing in hydrogen tech for road use (Honda and Toyota are the only one's I am aware of).
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      02-05-2020, 08:39 AM   #5
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I think part of the issue with a way forward is that the solution has to appeal to manufacturers participating in the sport (current or future). Hardly any manufacturer's are investing in hydrogen tech for road use (Honda and Toyota are the only one's I am aware of).
Your point about synergies with consumer products is completely valid, but I want to point out that the OP was referring to a hydrogen combustion engine. You may remember, BMW had a prototype 7 Series a decade or so ago with a hydrogen fueled V12 engine. They are no longer investing in the technology, however.

What Toyota, Hyundai, and others (including BMW, in fact) are pursuing is hydrogen fuel cell technology which is completely different. An FCEV (fuel cell electric vehicle) has much more in common with a BEV (battery electric vehicle) than any vehicle with a combustion engine. In fact, it's really just about creating a "refillable battery". The rest of the vehicle is (or could be in theory be, with more development work) just like the BEV.
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      02-05-2020, 08:51 AM   #6
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I just don't see anything on the horizon right now that will matter with respect to racing that isn't an ICE or variation of it. I get that EV's could be made competitive but I'm not sure there is a market to for it. The folks that love the tech of EV's aren't the type of people who are going to love racing.....maybe I'm wrong.
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      02-05-2020, 09:01 AM   #7
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I just don't see anything on the horizon right now that will matter with respect to racing that isn't an ICE or variation of it. I get that EV's could be made competitive but I'm not sure there is a market to for it. The folks that love the tech of EV's aren't the type of people who are going to love racing.....maybe I'm wrong.
I agree with this statement, 100%. They aren't the type. More the type that like battling robots or some such.
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      02-05-2020, 09:14 AM   #8
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F1 just needs to hurry up and die. Right now I can't think of another form of motor racing that I'd like to watch less than F1. Sure, it's the pinnacle of tech etc....who cares!? NASCAR is (comparatively) Neanderthal cars and a track that only turns left, and it's still awesome! And there's rally/rallycross, moto, endurance, GT, touring cars........F1 is boring as hell.

If the investment that is poured into F1 was spread around GT racing etc etc, we'd start seeing some rapid development in what's available for us to buy, and we'd have good racing too!

YMMV, etc
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      02-05-2020, 10:20 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
F1 just needs to hurry up and die. Right now I can't think of another form of motor racing that I'd like to watch less than F1. Sure, it's the pinnacle of tech etc....who cares!? NASCAR is (comparatively) Neanderthal cars and a track that only turns left, and it's still awesome! And there's rally/rallycross, moto, endurance, GT, touring cars........F1 is boring as hell.

If the investment that is poured into F1 was spread around GT racing etc etc, we'd start seeing some rapid development in what's available for us to buy, and we'd have good racing too!

YMMV, etc
You know that you can simply stop watching, yes?
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      02-05-2020, 10:22 AM   #10
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Yep, haven't watched for a few years now, beyond a cursory glance to make sure I'm still not missing anything
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      02-05-2020, 10:27 AM   #11
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Yep, haven't watched for a few years now, beyond a cursory glance to make sure I'm still not missing anything
To each, his own!
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      02-05-2020, 10:59 AM   #12
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Indeed! Good that some (presumably lots of) people are still enjoying it!
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      02-05-2020, 11:42 AM   #13
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How many laps could a Formula E car do of Spa? Formula E races on these dinky street tracks.

How many decades until a EV can win overall at 24hr Le Mans?

EV tech is far from being competitive, especially in endurance racing.
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      02-05-2020, 11:47 AM   #14
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How many laps could a Formula E car do of Spa? Formula E races on these dinky street tracks.

How many decades until a EV can win overall at 24hr Le Mans?

EV tech is far from being competitive, especially in endurance racing.
Completely unsuitable at this juncture.
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      02-05-2020, 01:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
I agree with this statement, 100%. They aren't the type. More the type that like battling robots or some such.
I kind of look at it this way, I like mechanical watches, something with moving parts that was hand crafted, you can look at the movement and appreciate it, my iPhone keeps better time than my rolex or omega, and yet I still wear them.

Lots of folks don't understand, and that's ok but I don't think they are going to be ICE racing fans.
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      02-05-2020, 01:54 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
How many laps could a Formula E car do of Spa? Formula E races on these dinky street tracks.

How many decades until a EV can win overall at 24hr Le Mans?

EV tech is far from being competitive, especially in endurance racing.
The bonus is that formula e races are sprints, so everyone is balls-out for the win. Great fun to watch!
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