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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) Local Forums UK 330e: use ICE only a few kms every month, will that damage the engine?

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      02-16-2020, 08:34 AM   #1
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330e: use ICE only a few kms every month, will that damage the engine?

Hello,

I read some comments about plugin hybrid and they made me wonder about the ICE status if only electric is used.

I’m able to do my daily conmute on electric only so after 1.5 months i see i have just done 2 trips where I had to use gas for a few kilometers. My gas tank is almost full.

Do you think the combustion engine might suffer in the future if it has very little seldom usage? I was thinking of making like 1-2 kms daily on sport with some speeding so the engine turned on and got some RPMs, it’s telling me it’s like 0.2 l/100km so no real waste but a least the engine turns on for a while everyday.

Your thoughts? Thanks!
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      02-16-2020, 08:46 AM   #2
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I just drive in sport xtra boost mode once a week ))
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      02-16-2020, 10:24 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rf3000 View Post
I was thinking of making like 1-2 kms daily on sport with some speeding so the engine turned on and got some RPMs,
Driving ANY engine for just 1 or 2 km at a time when the oil is cold will cause FAR more damage than not using the engine at all.

If you want to use the engine once in a while, I would make sure you drive it with the ICE for at least 15 mins a time, and use low revs until it's had time for the oil to warm up.

Last edited by mofomat; 02-18-2020 at 03:44 AM..
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      02-17-2020, 03:43 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rf3000 View Post
Hello,

I read some comments about plugin hybrid and they made me wonder about the ICE status if only electric is used.

I’m able to do my daily conmute on electric only so after 1.5 months i see i have just done 2 trips where I had to use gas for a few kilometers. My gas tank is almost full.

Do you think the combustion engine might suffer in the future if it has very little seldom usage? I was thinking of making like 1-2 kms daily on sport with some speeding so the engine turned on and got some RPMs, it’s telling me it’s like 0.2 l/100km so no real waste but a least the engine turns on for a while everyday.

Your thoughts? Thanks!
Personally I would give the engine a regular use...just enough to get it well warmed up so the oil is allowed to do it's job properly. Petrol does go off over time - no idea how long it takes with modern fuel but probably years rather than months - and causes deposits and crud to build up in the fuel system.

As an aside, maybe worth thinking about running the petrol tank down to say quarter full - a full tank is a lot of weight to lug around and partially negates the benefit of using electric.
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      02-17-2020, 04:09 AM   #5
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Running an ICE for just a couple of miles and working it when cold, goes against my engineering experience.

It is a major stumbling block to me getting a hybrid. Much of my use could be on EV, but would have to top up with the ICE, possibly for a couple of miles or so each trip.

I believe an engine needs to be warmed up, have decent heat soak, to have longevity. I would say you need 10 miles or more to get the engine to decent heat in average UK winter temperatures. Even more in freezing conditions.

I don't like using my current car for less than 12 miles at a time, simply for getting the engine hot.

Stale fuel is another concern. Depends how sealed the BMW fuel system is. Worth noting what the issues can be. Link to a BP document.

https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp-co...icle-tanks.pdf
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      02-17-2020, 04:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andybird View Post

As an aside, maybe worth thinking about running the petrol tank down to say quarter full - a full tank is a lot of weight to lug around and partially negates the benefit of using electric.
Well, let's calculate the saving shall we?

The tank in a 330e is 40 litres. To run it a quarter full you're saving the weight of 30 litres of fuel, which at 15 degrees temp ambient is 22.5kg.

Deduct this from the EU1 weight of the 330e, which is 1,815kg, and you're reducing the weight by 1.2%.

Hardly worth worrying about, especially when you need to somewhere unexpectedly in a hurry, and you have to fill the tank first.
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      02-17-2020, 01:45 PM   #7
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Thank you guys. But what would be then the recommended use for someone (like me) that can go fully electric every day? As commented, my commute of 35km at 120km/h can be covered fully electric. Should I make one trip once a week on gas? It seems quite a waste of gas and money...
Thanks!

PS: my 330e is also a company lease, so will change it in five years. So long time small degradation of the ICE is not a real big issue, but i like to take care of my cars

Last edited by rf3000; 02-17-2020 at 02:13 PM..
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      02-18-2020, 03:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rf3000 View Post
PS: my 330e is also a company lease, so will change it in five years. So long time small degradation of the ICE is not a real big issue, but i like to take care of my cars
This is the important thing. It's a lease so I wouldn't worry about it. I like to take care of my cars too, and I plan to get a 330e Touring when it's launched, on lease, and I won't be worrying about it at all.
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      02-18-2020, 11:06 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rf3000 View Post
PS: my 330e is also a company lease, so will change it in five years. So long time small degradation of the ICE is not a real big issue, but i like to take care of my cars
This is the important thing. It's a lease so I wouldn't worry about it. I like to take care of my cars too, and I plan to get a 330e Touring when it's launched, on lease, and I won't be worrying about it at all.
From my experience the 330e engine warms up much more quickly than a normal engine, somehow. 2-3 miles in Sport and mine shows that it's no longer cold. However I wouldn't run it hard when cold. I think it may have some hardened engine components but I'm sure this will damage it in the long term.
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      02-18-2020, 03:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky6 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rf3000 View Post
PS: my 330e is also a company lease, so will change it in five years. So long time small degradation of the ICE is not a real big issue, but i like to take care of my cars
This is the important thing. It's a lease so I wouldn't worry about it. I like to take care of my cars too, and I plan to get a 330e Touring when it's launched, on lease, and I won't be worrying about it at all.
From my experience the 330e engine warms up much more quickly than a normal engine, somehow. 2-3 miles in Sport and mine shows that it's no longer cold. However I wouldn't run it hard when cold. I think it may have some hardened engine components but I'm sure this will damage it in the long term.
Yepp definitely warms up much quicker! Check the oil temp in the sport display.. I'd say it's usually good to go after like 5mins of slow/normal driving already.. in winter.. in Sweden!
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      02-18-2020, 05:58 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by dejansokolovski View Post
Yepp definitely warms up much quicker! Check the oil temp in the sport display.. I'd say it's usually good to go after like 5mins of slow/normal driving already.. in winter.. in Sweden!
What temperature are you seeing, 70°C+ ?

I've been looking to see if the engine coolant is partially heated during preconditioning. Not yet found any direct comment, although the hardware is there to do so.

What would be interesting to know, what is the temperature of the oil when you first start off? In the normal ICE setup oil/coolant would be at ambient temperature. Is your coolant/oil already at a higher temperature?
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      02-19-2020, 12:16 AM   #12
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Not an ‘e’ but my 330i is by far the quickest car i have ever had to warm up. Normally within a couple of miles. If i sit on the drive with frost covering the windows I am able to drive away after a few minutes defrosted only by heating and ventilation. Mind you do need the heated seats and wheel when off to the gym early on such days in shorts, the leather is definitely cold!
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      02-19-2020, 07:18 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
Well, let's calculate the saving shall we?

The tank in a 330e is 40 litres. To run it a quarter full you're saving the weight of 30 litres of fuel, which at 15 degrees temp ambient is 22.5kg.

Deduct this from the EU1 weight of the 330e, which is 1,815kg, and you're reducing the weight by 1.2%.

Hardly worth worrying about, especially when you need to somewhere unexpectedly in a hurry, and you have to fill the tank first.
Ridiculous response!

In my humble opinion.....
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      02-19-2020, 09:29 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Sussex_G20 View Post
Not an ‘e’ but my 330i is by far the quickest car i have ever had to warm up. Normally within a couple of miles. If i sit on the drive with frost covering the windows I am able to drive away after a few minutes defrosted only by heating and ventilation. Mind you do need the heated seats and wheel when off to the gym early on such days in shorts, the leather is definitely cold!
You are benefiting from the electric auxiliary heating element in the HVAC system, now also included on the G20 petrol models. Engine can still be cold, but warm air is coming into the cabin within a minute or so. Also assists the speed of engine warm up, as there isn't the immediate draw on any heat in the coolant.
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      02-19-2020, 11:18 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
You are benefiting from the electric auxiliary heating element in the HVAC system, now also included on the G20 petrol models. Engine can still be cold, but warm air is coming into the cabin within a minute or so. Also assists the speed of engine warm up, as there isn't the immediate draw on any heat in the coolant.
Quite possibly that would seem to make sense. I also mean the engine temp warms quickly too as you say probably a by-product of the aux heating element. I find the cool warning legend extinguishes and the gauge is registering at least a third of the way in only a few miles. Maybe the active radiator louvres do make a difference here too. they only open when it is very hot and the car is stationary
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      02-19-2020, 11:41 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Sussex_G20 View Post
Quite possibly that would seem to make sense. I also mean the engine temp warms quickly too as you say probably a by-product of the aux heating element. I find the cool warning legend extinguishes and the gauge is registering at least a third of the way in only a few miles. Maybe the active radiator louvres do make a difference here too. they only open when it is very hot and the car is stationary
Yes, the active grilles will be helping as well. Wish my car had them.

My N55 engine takes a long time to warm up, cabin as well, as there is not any auxiliary heating in my petrol model. Was used to the electric element in the diesel, which helped the cabin and also masked how slow the diesel engine was to heat up.

This morning at 2°C, my car took 6 miles, (10 minutes of easy driving) for the oil temperature to come off the stop at 70°C. At 10 miles of 50 - 60mph, still only ~80°C. Far too much airflow around the engine, when the ambient temperatures are low.
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      02-19-2020, 06:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dejansokolovski View Post
Yepp definitely warms up much quicker! Check the oil temp in the sport display.. I'd say it's usually good to go after like 5mins of slow/normal driving already.. in winter.. in Sweden!
What temperature are you seeing, 70°C+ ?

I've been looking to see if the engine coolant is partially heated during preconditioning. Not yet found any direct comment, although the hardware is there to do so.

What would be interesting to know, what is the temperature of the oil when you first start off? In the normal ICE setup oil/coolant would be at ambient temperature. Is your coolant/oil already at a higher temperature?
Yes correct, above 70c..

No it's on zero when I start up the ice, now I'm only looking at the oil temperature through the sport displays. Water temperature is a little bit quicker but not by much
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      02-20-2020, 04:48 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andybird View Post
Ridiculous response!

In my humble opinion.....
Not sure what's ridiculous. Saying 1.2% is an insignificant weight saving, or ACTUALLY calculating the weight difference instead of guessing 30 litres of fuel is "a lot of weight to lug around"?

Last edited by mofomat; 02-20-2020 at 11:51 AM..
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      02-20-2020, 02:28 PM   #19
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Not sure what's ridiculous. Saying 1.2% is an insignificant weight saving, or ACTUALLY calculating the weight difference instead of guessing 30 litres of fuel is "a lot of weight to lug around"?
You miss the point - lugging any unnecessary weight around will affect economy and performance, whether it is 1.2% or 50%. That is why F1 cars only carry just enough fuel to finish a race.

If your original response had been less patronising in it's tone I wouldn't have bothered responding.
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      02-21-2020, 01:45 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andybird View Post
You miss the point
No I don't "miss the point". You described the weight difference of a full tank compared to a quarter full tank as "a LOT of weight to LUG around". So rather than guess, I thought why not work it out exactly? It turns out it makes a difference of 1.2%, which although it does make a small difference, it could hardly be described as "a LOT", which is how YOU described it. It's basically the difference between having a male passenger or a female passenger.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Andybird View Post
lugging any unnecessary weight around will affect economy and performance, whether it is 1.2% or 50%.
Yes it will, but that's not what you said, is it? You're trying to conflate two different points.

And no, the impact of a 50% weight difference is huge. 1.2% virtually zero. And the hypothetical situation of 50% is irrelevant anyway as the weight difference isn't that!




Quote:
Originally Posted by Andybird View Post
That is why F1 cars only carry just enough fuel to finish a race.
F1 cars weigh 660kg and are taking part in a global industry worth hundreds of millions of Pounds where thousands of a second are critical. Had we been discussing a weight difference of 1.2% on an F1 car I would say you have a point. To apply the same reasoning on a family saloon which is the best part of two tonnes is illogical, nonsense, and frankly ridiculous. Like I say. It's the difference between a male passenger and a female passenger.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Andybird View Post
If your original response had been less patronising in it's tone I wouldn't have bothered responding.
There was nothing patronising in my tone whatsoever, and if any has been read into it then that's purely down to your own insecurities. You replied, however, with a condescending tone by saying my post was "ridiculous". Had you replied and said "oh, I suppose when you work it out it's not that big of a difference really", nobody would have thought less of you. But in this current climate where nobody can be seen to lose face, you've doubled down and picked a fight, which has left you looking a bit silly.
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      02-21-2020, 09:23 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
No I don't "miss the point". You described the weight difference of a full tank compared to a quarter full tank as "a LOT of weight to LUG around". So rather than guess, I thought why not work it out exactly? It turns out it makes a difference of 1.2%, which although it does make a small difference, it could hardly be described as "a LOT", which is how YOU described it. It's basically the difference between having a male passenger or a female passenger.





Yes it will, but that's not what you said, is it? You're trying to conflate two different points.

And no, the impact of a 50% weight difference is huge. 1.2% virtually zero. And the hypothetical situation of 50% is irrelevant anyway as the weight difference isn't that!






F1 cars weigh 660kg and are taking part in a global industry worth hundreds of millions of Pounds where thousands of a second are critical. Had we been discussing a weight difference of 1.2% on an F1 car I would say you have a point. To apply the same reasoning on a family saloon which is the best part of two tonnes is illogical, nonsense, and frankly ridiculous. Like I say. It's the difference between a male passenger and a female passenger.




There was nothing patronising in my tone whatsoever, and if any has been read into it then that's purely down to your own insecurities. You replied, however, with a condescending tone by saying my post was "ridiculous". Had you replied and said "oh, I suppose when you work it out it's not that big of a difference really", nobody would have thought less of you. But in this current climate where nobody can be seen to lose face, you've doubled down and picked a fight, which has left you looking a bit silly.
Wow. Even more patronising!!

Have a nice life.

Bye bye.

Last edited by Seaford; 02-21-2020 at 09:56 AM..
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      02-21-2020, 12:09 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Andybird View Post
Wow. Even more patronising!!

Have a nice life.

Bye bye.

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