Bimmerpost
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BIMMERPOST Universal Forums Off-Topic Discussions Board Politics/Religion I think Tesla will be gone in ten years

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-22-2019, 06:32 PM   #1717
afadeev
Colonel
afadeev's Avatar
1115
Rep
2,537
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
If you owned a house that is pre-civil war, nestled in the Blueridge of Virginia, and has a 26 x 30 auto shop with shop air and a lift, you'd not move, trust me on that. The closest neighbor is a 4 minute walk across the street. Commuting is usually 3.5 hours total.
I do know, and appreciate the area, but 3.5 hour commute is ... wow.
You definitely win the iron-butt award!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Your math on the gas tax does not include state gas taxes
That's correct.
State gas taxes very by ... state, a lot, and are therefore harder to generalize.
State gas taxes also fund all sorts of programs, many of which have nothing to do with road construction or maintenance.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ntry/38908491/


Taxes are a dirty game.
Bench-marking them across the 50 states is just a mess.
Expecting politicians to respond to diminishing gasoline tax revenues rationally ... would be irrational. They will find creatives ways to @#$% thinks up more.
In NJ, they chose to RAISE gasoline taxes in response to falling gas consumption volumes. Hmmm, right, makes little sense, but sure, why not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
And your 3.5x to 6x is just fuel cost
3.5x-6x EV vs. ICE cost advantage indeed measures variable operating cost.

That's hard data in response to your own guesses about EV operating costs in post #1643.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
and does not consider the additional $10K to $20K an equivalent ICE costs less than an EV (Model 3 vs. Honda Accord).
Comparing TM3 to an Accord is silly.

TM3 is gunning for Audi, BMW, and Mercedes mid-luxury car market share.
For 1Q'19, TM3 is leading that segment by a 2:1 sales margin to the number two car:
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2019/04...ca-march-2019/

Sort above by YTD sales, and weep if you are a luxury ICE vehicel fan.

TM3-Performance is after ///M3 and AMG market share.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
EVs do not pay themselves back because the base price is much higher than an equivalent EV.
Cars "do not pay for themselves back" because they are depreciating asset, period.

A $35-40K Tesla Model 3 sells for less than base 3-series or C-class.
Today.
And costs 3.5x-6x less to operate per mile.
Today.

Extra taxes or not, that is hard math to overcome for luxury ICE vehicles, which is why their sales have been taking it in the @$$ for the last few quarters.

TM3 is doing to small/mid-luxury car market what Model S did to the Large Luxury Car sales in 2018: outsold BMW + Mercedes + Audi combined.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2019/01...december-2018/


Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Add in road taxes not yet applied for the Feds and State to regain lost tax revenue and the payback picture becomes worse if the EV MSRP prices remain unchanged.
Margin of error consideration.

EV prices are going nowhere but down, following inline with the declining battery prices.
I will let you figure out on your own what Tesla's new Chinese factory will do to its manufacturing cost base, and capacity.

a

P.S.: I guess for every Tesla that physically catches fire, customers are going back and buying 100x replacements?
P.P.S.: 2018 Large Luxury car sales:
Attached Images
 
__________________
'19 TM3P (BK/BK)
'15 F80 M3 (SO/SS)
ex-'17 I01 i3-BEV (PB/DD), ex-'15 I01 i3-REX, ex-E90, E46, E36's, E30's

Last edited by afadeev; 04-22-2019 at 07:01 PM..
Appreciate 0
      04-22-2019, 10:56 PM   #1718
jmg
Major General
jmg's Avatar
United_States
8084
Rep
9,284
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 CS, I01 i3 REx LCI
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
The minerals in these batteries can be recycled. Their use is not just limited to ten years from initial mining. Also, if a good portion of the energy consume to mine said minerals were electric and sourced from a low coal sourced grid like in the UK and California, then those numbers would change dramatically. The net CO2 emission would be lower. Also, most people who would use this study against the EV don't believe in climate change, so the CO2 emissions wouldn't bother them.
__________________
2018 F80 ///M3 CS - Lime Rock Grey Metallic | MPHAS | GC Camber Plates
2019 I01 i3 BEV - Giga World
Previous: F80 M3 | I01 i3 Rex LCI | I01 i3 REx | F30 340i M Sport ZTR | F30 328i Sport | Audi B7 S4 25Quattro #33 of 250 | E21 320i
Appreciate 1
iconoclast4175.50

      04-22-2019, 10:58 PM   #1719
Eriphill
Major
1595
Rep
1,175
Posts

Drives: 340i
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Down by the sea

iTrader: (0)

EV's have never ever interested me, but the autonomous driving capability is a different story.

Appreciate 0
      04-23-2019, 05:39 AM   #1720
Efthreeoh
Lieutenant General
United_States
6607
Rep
13,937
Posts

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
I do know, and appreciate the area, but 3.5 hour commute is ... wow.
You definitely win the iron-butt award!




That's correct.
State gas taxes very by ... state, a lot, and are therefore harder to generalize.
State gas taxes also fund all sorts of programs, many of which have nothing to do with road construction or maintenance.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ntry/38908491/


Taxes are a dirty game.
Bench-marking them across the 50 states is just a mess.
Expecting politicians to respond to diminishing gasoline tax revenues rationally ... would be irrational. They will find creatives ways to @#$% thinks up more.
In NJ, they chose to RAISE gasoline taxes in response to falling gas consumption volumes. Hmmm, right, makes little sense, but sure, why not.




3.5x-6x EV vs. ICE cost advantage indeed measures variable operating cost.

That's hard data in response to your own guesses about EV operating costs in post #1643.




Comparing TM3 to an Accord is silly.

TM3 is gunning for Audi, BMW, and Mercedes mid-luxury car market share.
For 1Q'19, TM3 is leading that segment by a 2:1 sales margin to the number two car:
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2019/04...ca-march-2019/

Sort above by YTD sales, and weep if you are a luxury ICE vehicel fan.

TM3-Performance is after ///M3 and AMG market share.




Cars "do not pay for themselves back" because they are depreciating asset, period.

A $35-40K Tesla Model 3 sells for less than base 3-series or C-class.
Today.
And costs 3.5x-6x less to operate per mile.
Today.

Extra taxes or not, that is hard math to overcome for luxury ICE vehicles, which is why their sales have been taking it in the @$$ for the last few quarters.

TM3 is doing to small/mid-luxury car market what Model S did to the Large Luxury Car sales in 2018: outsold BMW + Mercedes + Audi combined.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2019/01...december-2018/




Margin of error consideration.

EV prices are going nowhere but down, following inline with the declining battery prices.
I will let you figure out on your own what Tesla's new Chinese factory will do to its manufacturing cost base, and capacity.

a

P.S.: I guess for every Tesla that physically catches fire, customers are going back and buying 100x replacements?
P.P.S.: 2018 Large Luxury car sales:
Saying cars don't pay themselves back because they are a depreciating asset is an obfuscation on your part, because I was not making that assertion. I was clear, I said COMPARED to ICE vehicles in the same general class, because the MSRP price delta, an EV does not make up for its in crease in price by its low fuel cost. I don't see cars as a depreciating asset, but rather as a transportation tool. Pretty much all tools are depreciating assets; i.e. an investment in accounting terms. Any evaluation of automobile cost comes down to life cycle cost per-mile. EVs cost more per mile to life-cycle operate.


Sedan sales have been dropping over all for about 6 years now. It's an industry trend not related to EVs nor Tesla. The Model 3 has been on a sales growth because (a) it is new tech, and (b) buyers are easily taken in by the multi faceted hype.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission.
Appreciate 0
      04-23-2019, 01:09 PM   #1721
.2pdk
Banned
4065
Rep
1,970
Posts

Drives: M2 LCI
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

What a doofus...

Quote:
Elon Musk: Any other car than a Tesla in 3 years will be like ‘owning a horse’

“It’s financially insane to buy anything other than a Tesla,” says the CEO of the electric auto maker.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/23/elon...g-a-horse.html

Is he perpetually high?

Talk about desperate...
Appreciate 0
      04-23-2019, 01:25 PM   #1722
530iDriver
Colonel
530iDriver's Avatar
United_States
1238
Rep
2,020
Posts

Drives: 2017 BMW 530i
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by .2pdk View Post
Quote:
Elon Musk: Any other car than a Tesla in 3 years will be like ‘owning a horse’

“It’s financially insane to buy anything other than a Tesla,” says the CEO of the electric auto maker.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/23/elon...g-a-horse.html

Is he perpetually high?

Talk about desperate...
Elon not only has a big mouth but a huge ego. This guy's uncontrollable tongue and fingers will be the doom of Tesla.
__________________
2017 BMW 530i, Sport Line,Alpine White, Canberra Beige Sensatec, 19 inch V-Spoke wheels, basic plain Jane build with no options whatsoever..... "Less is more".

Before: 2011 BMW 328i E90 sedan, Platinum Bronze Metallic, Dakota Brown leather, 17 inch wheels, 6-speed auto, N52 6 Cyl inline N/A goodness....
Appreciate 0
      04-23-2019, 01:32 PM   #1723
.2pdk
Banned
4065
Rep
1,970
Posts

Drives: M2 LCI
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Elon not only has a big mouth but a huge ego. This guy's uncontrollable tongue and fingers will be the doom of Tesla.
One could say he's burning Tesla to the ground...
Appreciate 0
      04-23-2019, 02:34 PM   #1724
dailydrivens30
Enlisted Member
32
Rep
39
Posts

Drives: 73 240z , 09 335i
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Oakland, CA

iTrader: (0)

Anyone work at Tesla, just out of curiosity? Fremont factory?
Appreciate 0
      04-23-2019, 02:47 PM   #1725
.2pdk
Banned
4065
Rep
1,970
Posts

Drives: M2 LCI
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dailydrivens30 View Post
Anyone work at Tesla, just out of curiosity? Fremont tent?
There, much better...
Appreciate 2
iconoclast4175.50
530iDriver1237.50

      04-23-2019, 02:50 PM   #1726
iconoclast
Self-Deprecating Narcissist
iconoclast's Avatar
No_Country
4176
Rep
4,395
Posts

Drives: Audi BMW Ferrari LR MB
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: In, Out & Around...

iTrader: (0)

hahaha.
Appreciate 0
      04-23-2019, 03:04 PM   #1727
afadeev
Colonel
afadeev's Avatar
1115
Rep
2,537
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by .2pdk View Post
Just occasionally, but with insanely cool results.

The last time he smoked a doobie, he temporarily dropped TM3P pricing by $6K, so I picked one up.

A bit earlier, he announced that an already insanely fast 0-60 in 1.9 secs Tesla roadster will have optional "SpaceX" package with rocket thrusters.
Everyone thought that was a joke.
Alas, it's real, and insanely cool:
https://electrek.co/2018/06/10/tesla...ster-backseat/

BTW, new Tesla Roadster's interior is stunningly gorgeous:
__________________
'19 TM3P (BK/BK)
'15 F80 M3 (SO/SS)
ex-'17 I01 i3-BEV (PB/DD), ex-'15 I01 i3-REX, ex-E90, E46, E36's, E30's

Last edited by afadeev; 04-23-2019 at 04:53 PM..
Appreciate 0
      04-23-2019, 03:08 PM   #1728
.2pdk
Banned
4065
Rep
1,970
Posts

Drives: M2 LCI
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post

BTW, new Tesla Roadster's interior is stunningly gorgeous
Yeah, that car is on fire!
Appreciate 0
      04-23-2019, 03:46 PM   #1729
afadeev
Colonel
afadeev's Avatar
1115
Rep
2,537
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I was clear, I said COMPARED to ICE vehicles in the same general class, because the MSRP price delta, an EV does not make up for its in crease in price by its low fuel cost.
Actually, you did the opposite: you compared luxury TM3 to a Honda Accord!

That was the opposite of "same general class", that falsely attempted to support your thesis that EVs cost more than equivalent ICE cars.

If you compare apples-to-apples, Tesla Model 3 costs LESS upfront than BMW 3-series, and costs 3-6x less to run per mile.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Any evaluation of automobile cost comes down to life cycle cost per-mile. EVs cost more per mile to life-cycle operate.
Prove it!

Run and share the #s, or show independent 3rd party analysis of BMW 3-series vs. TM3 per mile cost of ownership.
Feel free to account for depreciation, insurance, maintenance, repairs, varying taxes, tax credits, etc.

Or maybe read up here:
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/07...e-crushing-it/


Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Sedan sales have been dropping over all for about 6 years now. It's an industry trend not related to EVs nor Tesla
What industry and segment?
2018 large luxury car sales were +4.2% over 2017. See links in my earlier posts.
2018 mid-luxury car sales were +36% over 2017.

Though, outside of Tesla, the majority of other OEMs saw sales declines in both of the above segments.

If you think that is not related to Tesla or EVs, you are smoking more doobies than Elon Musk.


a
__________________
'19 TM3P (BK/BK)
'15 F80 M3 (SO/SS)
ex-'17 I01 i3-BEV (PB/DD), ex-'15 I01 i3-REX, ex-E90, E46, E36's, E30's
Appreciate 0
      04-23-2019, 05:40 PM   #1730
WestRace
Major
592
Rep
1,081
Posts

Drives: E46 M3, E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Los Angels, Ca.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Elon not only has a big mouth but a huge ego. This guy's uncontrollable tongue and fingers will be the doom of Tesla.
Aren't they all?
Appreciate 0
      04-23-2019, 05:52 PM   #1731
.2pdk
Banned
4065
Rep
1,970
Posts

Drives: M2 LCI
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WestRace View Post
Aren't they all?
No
Appreciate 0
      04-23-2019, 05:58 PM   #1732
WestRace
Major
592
Rep
1,081
Posts

Drives: E46 M3, E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Los Angels, Ca.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by .2pdk View Post
No
Yes!
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2019, 12:43 AM   #1733
jmg
Major General
jmg's Avatar
United_States
8084
Rep
9,284
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 CS, I01 i3 REx LCI
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by .2pdk View Post
Quote:
Elon Musk: Any other car than a Tesla in 3 years will be like 'owning a horse'

"It's financially insane to buy anything other than a Tesla," says the CEO of the electric auto maker.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/23/elon...g-a-horse.html

Is he perpetually high?

Talk about desperate...
Elon not only has a big mouth but a huge ego. This guy's uncontrollable tongue and fingers will be the doom of Tesla.
If I were playing mad libs I would have chosen "Trump" and "America" instead.
__________________
2018 F80 ///M3 CS - Lime Rock Grey Metallic | MPHAS | GC Camber Plates
2019 I01 i3 BEV - Giga World
Previous: F80 M3 | I01 i3 Rex LCI | I01 i3 REx | F30 340i M Sport ZTR | F30 328i Sport | Audi B7 S4 25Quattro #33 of 250 | E21 320i
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2019, 08:57 AM   #1734
Efthreeoh
Lieutenant General
United_States
6607
Rep
13,937
Posts

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
Actually, you did the opposite: you compared luxury TM3 to a Honda Accord!

That was the opposite of "same general class", that falsely attempted to support your thesis that EVs cost more than equivalent ICE cars.

If you compare apples-to-apples, Tesla Model 3 costs LESS upfront than BMW 3-series, and costs 3-6x less to run per mile.




Prove it!

Run and share the #s, or show independent 3rd party analysis of BMW 3-series vs. TM3 per mile cost of ownership.
Feel free to account for depreciation, insurance, maintenance, repairs, varying taxes, tax credits, etc.

Or maybe read up here:
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/07...e-crushing-it/




What industry and segment?
2018 large luxury car sales were +4.2% over 2017. See links in my earlier posts.
2018 mid-luxury car sales were +36% over 2017.

Though, outside of Tesla, the majority of other OEMs saw sales declines in both of the above segments.

If you think that is not related to Tesla or EVs, you are smoking more doobies than Elon Musk.


a
I ran TOC (total ownership cost) numbers for a 2019 G20 330i and a 2019 Accord LX Hybrid against a Model 3 RWD medium-range battery. I'll post numbers later as I'm on my phone and my home computer has the spreadsheet. I've been modeling EV vs. ICE for about 6 years now, so my spreadsheet includes purchase price, 5-year loan cost, fuel and maintenance. In round numbers for a 7-year, 12,000 miles/ year ownership, t BMW came in at $68,000, the Honda at $40,000, and the Tesla at $61,000. I added Auto pilot to the Tesla, and whatever BMW and Honda has as far as nav and semi-autonomous driving to make things as even as possible. I'm guessing all cars are within 8 cubic feet from each other size wise, but how the cubic feet dimensions is more important.

The point I've been making on several recent threads on EVs is the Model 3 was supposed to be Tesla's mainstream $35K EV sedan for everyone in the automotive market, which is why I compare it to an Accord. You keep classifying it as just a German C-class competitor, which it isn't. It's put in that class because of the pricing structure not because of content. The Model 3 has a backseat unfit for normal-sized adults, which if Tesla would be any other manufacturer, it would be relentlessly derided over. The build quality is nowhere near BMW nor Honda standards. When looked at realistically, it doesn't make a good sale for itself.
Appreciate 2
      04-24-2019, 12:17 PM   #1735
afadeev
Colonel
afadeev's Avatar
1115
Rep
2,537
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
The point I've been making on several recent threads on EVs is the Model 3 was supposed to be Tesla's mainstream $35K EV sedan for everyone in the automotive market, which is why I compare it to an Accord.
Literately no-one else is treating it as a competitor to Accord.
Any more than entry-level BMWs are.

Tesla Model 3 is bench-marked against mid-luxury car segment (BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, Tesla), is feature contented (more richly than BMWs), priced, and marketed accordingly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
You keep classifying it as just a German C-class competitor, which it isn't. It's put in that class because of the pricing structure not because of content.
You are out on the limb on that one, against all automotive industry classifications, objective comparison, and common sense.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
The Model 3 has a backseat unfit for normal-sized adults, which if Tesla would be any other manufacturer, it would be relentlessly derided over.
Dead wrong.
All my passengers, teenagers and adults, comment on TM3's back seat being more spacious and enjoyable destination than F80 back seat.

Go sit in one for yourself and find out!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
The build quality is nowhere near BMW nor Honda standards. When looked at realistically, it doesn't make a good sale for itself.
When looked at realistically, sales #s speak for themselves.

a
__________________
'19 TM3P (BK/BK)
'15 F80 M3 (SO/SS)
ex-'17 I01 i3-BEV (PB/DD), ex-'15 I01 i3-REX, ex-E90, E46, E36's, E30's
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2019, 12:54 PM   #1736
openwheelracing
Captain
184
Rep
814
Posts

Drives: 5 different 3 Series
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

iTrader: (0)

Model 3 has much larger back seat and front leg room than similar sized sedans out there. This is due to the BEV design, short hood and long wheel base. If haters want to complain, maybe headroom but that's a stretch due to the spacious feeling dual layered glass roof.

Makes me laugh when Tesla haters make things up to make themselves feel better.
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2019, 01:13 PM   #1737
jmg
Major General
jmg's Avatar
United_States
8084
Rep
9,284
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 CS, I01 i3 REx LCI
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
Actually, you did the opposite: you compared luxury TM3 to a Honda Accord!

That was the opposite of "same general class", that falsely attempted to support your thesis that EVs cost more than equivalent ICE cars.

If you compare apples-to-apples, Tesla Model 3 costs LESS upfront than BMW 3-series, and costs 3-6x less to run per mile.




Prove it!

Run and share the #s, or show independent 3rd party analysis of BMW 3-series vs. TM3 per mile cost of ownership.
Feel free to account for depreciation, insurance, maintenance, repairs, varying taxes, tax credits, etc.

Or maybe read up here:
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/07...e-crushing-it/




What industry and segment?
2018 large luxury car sales were +4.2% over 2017. See links in my earlier posts.
2018 mid-luxury car sales were +36% over 2017.

Though, outside of Tesla, the majority of other OEMs saw sales declines in both of the above segments.

If you think that is not related to Tesla or EVs, you are smoking more doobies than Elon Musk.


a
I ran TOC (total ownership cost) numbers for a 2019 G20 330i and a 2019 Accord LX Hybrid against a Model 3 RWD medium-range battery. I'll post numbers later as I'm on my phone and my home computer has the spreadsheet. I've been modeling EV vs. ICE for about 6 years now, so my spreadsheet includes purchase price, 5-year loan cost, fuel and maintenance. In round numbers for a 7-year, 12,000 miles/ year ownership, t BMW came in at $68,000, the Honda at $40,000, and the Tesla at $61,000. I added Auto pilot to the Tesla, and whatever BMW and Honda has as far as nav and semi-autonomous driving to make things as even as possible. I'm guessing all cars are within 8 cubic feet from each other size wise, but how the cubic feet dimensions is more important.

The point I've been making on several recent threads on EVs is the Model 3 was supposed to be Tesla's mainstream $35K EV sedan for everyone in the automotive market, which is why I compare it to an Accord. You keep classifying it as just a German C-class competitor, which it isn't. It's put in that class because of the pricing structure not because of content. The Model 3 has a backseat unfit for normal-sized adults, which if Tesla would be any other manufacturer, it would be relentlessly derided over. The build quality is nowhere near BMW nor Honda standards. When looked at realistically, it doesn't make a good sale for itself.
I think that the fact that the Model 3 is cheaper to operate than a 330i is pretty remarkable considering the technology in the car. Im not sure why anyone is burning calories trying to compare an Accord to a Model 3, they have a different consumer base. A base Model 3 is still more expensive than a fully loaded Accord. How are they competitors? "Content" is much much more than back seat space, otherwise you would be placing a minivan in a higher bracket than a 911. That doesn't make any sense does it? By the way, the Model 3 has about the same backseat space as a F30 BMW
__________________
2018 F80 ///M3 CS - Lime Rock Grey Metallic | MPHAS | GC Camber Plates
2019 I01 i3 BEV - Giga World
Previous: F80 M3 | I01 i3 Rex LCI | I01 i3 REx | F30 340i M Sport ZTR | F30 328i Sport | Audi B7 S4 25Quattro #33 of 250 | E21 320i
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2019, 04:41 PM   #1738
NickyC
Major General
NickyC's Avatar
5850
Rep
6,101
Posts

Drives: YMB M4, has a roof though. :(
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Now in Miami! :D

iTrader: (17)

Total disaster for the first quarter, yet naturally the stock goes up after the earnings call.

lol
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:38 PM.




g20
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST