Bimmerpost
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BIMMERPOST Universal Forums Off-Topic Discussions Board Politics/Religion I think Tesla will be gone in ten years

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-04-2019, 11:14 AM   #1893
MPBK
Everyday I'm shuffling
United_States
424
Rep
1,090
Posts

Drives: '12 SG 135i DCT; '18 MG M2 DCT
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
TSLA's "secret" revenue stream:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...r?srnd=premium

Things are looking great for the company.
I think it's fair for TSLA to count that stream as legit revenue.
There are rules in the car business game. In this case, one needs to invest sufficient money to follow those rules. Some companies didn't invest, so it wouldn't be fair for them to count that as profit. OTOH, TSLA invested way too much (by virtue of their business model), so it's fair for them to receive some back.
This is one of the very few things the government did right. Specifically, they could have set the rules as - if you don't meet CO2 regulations you pay a fine to the government. But they made it such that the credits go to those who overachieved.
Appreciate 1
jmg8022.50

      06-04-2019, 11:52 AM   #1894
jmg
Major General
jmg's Avatar
United_States
8023
Rep
9,243
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 CS, I01 i3 REx LCI
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPBK View Post
I think it's fair for TSLA to count that stream as legit revenue.
There are rules in the car business game. In this case, one needs to invest sufficient money to follow those rules. Some companies didn't invest, so it wouldn't be fair for them to count that as profit. OTOH, TSLA invested way too much (by virtue of their business model), so it's fair for them to receive some back.
This is one of the very few things the government did right. Specifically, they could have set the rules as - if you don't meet CO2 regulations you pay a fine to the government. But they made it such that the credits go to those who overachieved.
TSLA is having a good morning. I'm thinking it's time to buy. It should be up to $220 by this time next week. I could be wrong, but it's a fun guess.
__________________
2018 F80 ///M3 CS - Lime Rock Grey Metallic | MPHAS | GC Camber Plates
2019 I01 i3 BEV - Giga World
Previous: F80 M3 | I01 i3 Rex LCI | I01 i3 REx | F30 340i M Sport ZTR | F30 328i Sport | Audi B7 S4 25Quattro #33 of 250 | E21 320i
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2019, 11:55 AM   #1895
jmg
Major General
jmg's Avatar
United_States
8023
Rep
9,243
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 CS, I01 i3 REx LCI
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
LOL. I was wondering why we were having a civil discussion. A troll account.
Attached Images
 
__________________
2018 F80 ///M3 CS - Lime Rock Grey Metallic | MPHAS | GC Camber Plates
2019 I01 i3 BEV - Giga World
Previous: F80 M3 | I01 i3 Rex LCI | I01 i3 REx | F30 340i M Sport ZTR | F30 328i Sport | Audi B7 S4 25Quattro #33 of 250 | E21 320i
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2019, 12:13 PM   #1896
1mm2
Lieutenant
393
Rep
534
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Northern exposure

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
LOL. I was wondering why we were having a civil discussion. A troll account.
Went back and read some of his posts and sure he wasn't a fan but I saw nothing that warrants being banned in this thread at least.
Appreciate 1
530iDriver1225.50

      06-04-2019, 12:34 PM   #1897
iconoclast
Self-Deprecating Narcissist
iconoclast's Avatar
No_Country
4157
Rep
4,381
Posts

Drives: Audi BMW Ferrari LR MB
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: In, Out & Around...

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPBK View Post
I think it's fair for TSLA to count that stream as legit revenue.
There are rules in the car business game. In this case, one needs to invest sufficient money to follow those rules. Some companies didn't invest, so it wouldn't be fair for them to count that as profit. OTOH, TSLA invested way too much (by virtue of their business model), so it's fair for them to receive some back.
This is one of the very few things the government did right. Specifically, they could have set the rules as - if you don't meet CO2 regulations you pay a fine to the government. But they made it such that the credits go to those who overachieved.
selling carbon credits and the like is nothing new however when it's what is keeping you afloat versus your main product kind of difficult to swallow as an investor. it is similar to sear's... at their high point sear's owned approximately 30% of the commercial real estate in the US... since the mid oughts or so it is essentially the only thing keeping them alive... that doesn't make them a great retailer it just shows they are utilizing their assets to generate some revenue in order to keep the lights on. on a smaller scale if a local restaurant was having difficulty with revenue and debt but it has an apartment above it and the apartment rent is what is keeping the failing restaurant open it doesn't make the restaurant a success.
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2019, 12:46 PM   #1898
Efthreeoh
Lieutenant General
United_States
6584
Rep
13,933
Posts

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
Ford received it as a financial institution not an automaker.
Like Lehman Brothers... to keep the yatchs afloat?

IIRC, Ford used it's corporate assets to privately finance it's recovery.

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 06-04-2019 at 01:12 PM..
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2019, 01:06 PM   #1899
Efthreeoh
Lieutenant General
United_States
6584
Rep
13,933
Posts

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
The autopilot requires that the driver still have their hands on the wheel. The system evens warns you to do so. Not every car that is about to switch lanes makes visible indications, even by their speed, they they are going to switch. Notice that the suv is not speeding, and not switching fast. The Tesla was in its blind spot, which is an inevitability every single time we drive. We cannot avoid being in someone's blind spot every single time, it's just not possible. Yes, you might have changed lanes seeing the slow truck and the cars behind him/her, but that's not the point of the video. The point was that it reacted to a situation that the driver did not anticipate. The autopilot did not "create" this situation any more than the thousands of drivers I encounter on the road that aren't as considerate or perceptive as you and I.
Exactly, not every car (driver) makes visible indications, but driving experience would lend one to understand other human driver behavior and anticipate ahead of time that the Chevy may make such a move, which a prudent human driver would react to ahead of time rather than drive into the Chevy's blind spot. A human driver with experience, say motorcycle riding experience, would analyze the situation quickly, determine it's a Chevy truck with a V8 and most likely an aggressive male driver sitting behind a trash truck (that may smell awful) and want to get out from behind it as soon as possible once cleared of the single lane entry ramp. Add in the weather factor for poor driving conditions where cars get hidden by roadspray, and a human driver with proper training and experience would have avoided the situation. The autopilot software is not that sophisticated because the people writing it are not that sophisticated regardless if they are writing AI or not. While the Tesla's driver's hands may have been on the wheel, he was letting Autopilot drive the car into a bad situation.

All semi-autonomous technology does is help create semi-conscious drivers, or make them even less conscious. When you use a dishwashing machine to wash Sunday's dinner dishes, do you stand there and watch it wash the dishes? No, no one does.
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2019, 01:09 PM   #1900
iconoclast
Self-Deprecating Narcissist
iconoclast's Avatar
No_Country
4157
Rep
4,381
Posts

Drives: Audi BMW Ferrari LR MB
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: In, Out & Around...

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Like Lehman Brothers... to keep the yatchs afloat?
F did not receive funds through TARP as others did. They collected through "TABS" and I believe received roughly $9b. The comical thing was Mulally flew a private jet to DC to request a handout. Not exactly putting your best foot forward and being humble; just further indication that it is business as usual simply lend me the money and look the other way.
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2019, 01:15 PM   #1901
jmg
Major General
jmg's Avatar
United_States
8023
Rep
9,243
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 CS, I01 i3 REx LCI
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post

All semi-autonomous technology does is help create semi-conscious drivers, or make them even less conscious. When you use a dishwashing machine to wash Sunday's dinner dishes, do you stand there and watch it wash the dishes? No, no one does.
I agree to an extent. I'm not completely sold on fully autonomous driving cars. I do believe that the "radar" system that cars like the Tesla have are nice in that they can help drivers avoid accidents they might not normally have. Adaptive Cruise with Lane Assist is as far as I go with autonomous driving. It keeps you alert with the hands on the wheel and still actively operating the vehicle.
__________________
2018 F80 ///M3 CS - Lime Rock Grey Metallic | MPHAS | GC Camber Plates
2019 I01 i3 BEV - Giga World
Previous: F80 M3 | I01 i3 Rex LCI | I01 i3 REx | F30 340i M Sport ZTR | F30 328i Sport | Audi B7 S4 25Quattro #33 of 250 | E21 320i
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2019, 01:18 PM   #1902
jmg
Major General
jmg's Avatar
United_States
8023
Rep
9,243
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 CS, I01 i3 REx LCI
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by vocan View Post
Went back and read some of his posts and sure he wasn't a fan but I saw nothing that warrants being banned in this thread at least.
His posts were deleted. He resorted to calling people names simply because he disagreed with people and couldn't come up with a mature way to deal with it.
__________________
2018 F80 ///M3 CS - Lime Rock Grey Metallic | MPHAS | GC Camber Plates
2019 I01 i3 BEV - Giga World
Previous: F80 M3 | I01 i3 Rex LCI | I01 i3 REx | F30 340i M Sport ZTR | F30 328i Sport | Audi B7 S4 25Quattro #33 of 250 | E21 320i
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2019, 01:23 PM   #1903
Efthreeoh
Lieutenant General
United_States
6584
Rep
13,933
Posts

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
F did not receive funds through TARP as others did. They collected through "TABS" and I believe received roughly $9b. The comical thing was Mulally flew a private jet to DC to request a handout. Not exactly putting your best foot forward and being humble; just further indication that it is business as usual simply lend me the money and look the other way.
As a CEO, I'd have flown too. Last time Nancy Pelosi drove home to California? Anyone? ...
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2019, 01:31 PM   #1904
Efthreeoh
Lieutenant General
United_States
6584
Rep
13,933
Posts

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
I agree to an extent. I'm not completely sold on fully autonomous driving cars. I do believe that the "radar" system that cars like the Tesla have are nice in that they can help drivers avoid accidents they might not normally have. Adaptive Cruise with Lane Assist is as far as I go with autonomous driving. It keeps you alert with the hands on the wheel and still actively operating the vehicle.
I've been in a Model 3 and been shown the Autopilot function. My friend at work has one. He does not rely on it, but does let it drive for him. He says it has difficulty with inclement weather conditions and poor road conditions (i.e under construction).

I'd rather see society spend a fraction of the cost to convert to autonomy on driver training and retraining enforcement. I think it is easier and less expensive to train people how to drive properly. Invest the money in better training technology: education technique, training software technology, and better driving simulators.
Appreciate 1
lakefront259.50

      06-04-2019, 01:38 PM   #1905
jmg
Major General
jmg's Avatar
United_States
8023
Rep
9,243
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 CS, I01 i3 REx LCI
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I think it is easier and less expensive to train people how to drive properly. Invest the money in better training technology: education technique, training software technology, and better driving simulators.
That's a state and federal issue. TSLA is a business. If they want to spend money on R&D for autonomous driving, they can do that, it's a free country.

If you want to take money away from the EV fed tax credits and state incentives, that's a totally different discussion. Autonomous driving isn't limited to the EV, the same technology can and will be used in ICE cars as well.
__________________
2018 F80 ///M3 CS - Lime Rock Grey Metallic | MPHAS | GC Camber Plates
2019 I01 i3 BEV - Giga World
Previous: F80 M3 | I01 i3 Rex LCI | I01 i3 REx | F30 340i M Sport ZTR | F30 328i Sport | Audi B7 S4 25Quattro #33 of 250 | E21 320i
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2019, 02:08 PM   #1906
1mm2
Lieutenant
393
Rep
534
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Northern exposure

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
His posts were deleted. He resorted to calling people names simply because he disagreed with people and couldn't come up with a mature way to deal with it.
I see, it's just that you don't usually see troll accounts with so many posts and such a high rep count. Anyhoo, back to why TSLA stock has broken down and will need a miracle.
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2019, 02:09 PM   #1907
iconoclast
Self-Deprecating Narcissist
iconoclast's Avatar
No_Country
4157
Rep
4,381
Posts

Drives: Audi BMW Ferrari LR MB
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: In, Out & Around...

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
As a CEO, I'd have flown too. Last time Nancy Pelosi drove home to California? Anyone? ...
There are commercial airlines that work just as well and far less expensive.
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2019, 02:32 PM   #1908
jmg
Major General
jmg's Avatar
United_States
8023
Rep
9,243
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 CS, I01 i3 REx LCI
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by vocan View Post
I see, it's just that you don't usually see troll accounts with so many posts and such a high rep count. Anyhoo, back to why TSLA stock has broken down and will need a miracle.
Most his posts were in the political section and most of his high rep are just people who happen to be on his side of the argument. Both the left and right are guilty of mob mentality, but his comments were especially counter-productive and ad hominem rather than about the subject-matter.
__________________
2018 F80 ///M3 CS - Lime Rock Grey Metallic | MPHAS | GC Camber Plates
2019 I01 i3 BEV - Giga World
Previous: F80 M3 | I01 i3 Rex LCI | I01 i3 REx | F30 340i M Sport ZTR | F30 328i Sport | Audi B7 S4 25Quattro #33 of 250 | E21 320i
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2019, 02:56 PM   #1909
Efthreeoh
Lieutenant General
United_States
6584
Rep
13,933
Posts

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
There are commercial airlines that work just as well and far less expensive.
It's a leased corporate jet. It would have been financially worse not to use it. National airport is kept open for Congress. The subway will be ready in a few months from DC to Dulles. The Fed could close National and have Congress use Dulles to fly to and from (mostly on private or chartered air). Optics and politics; they rhyme for a reason...

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 06-04-2019 at 03:09 PM..
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2019, 02:59 PM   #1910
Efthreeoh
Lieutenant General
United_States
6584
Rep
13,933
Posts

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
That's a state and federal issue. TSLA is a business. If they want to spend money on R&D for autonomous driving, they can do that, it's a free country.

If you want to take money away from the EV fed tax credits and state incentives, that's a totally different discussion. Autonomous driving isn't limited to the EV, the same technology can and will be used in ICE cars as well.
Wait until the DOT gets involved, then it will be State and Federal tax dollars at stake.
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2019, 03:01 PM   #1911
iconoclast
Self-Deprecating Narcissist
iconoclast's Avatar
No_Country
4157
Rep
4,381
Posts

Drives: Audi BMW Ferrari LR MB
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: In, Out & Around...

iTrader: (0)

where can i see if F owned or leased corporate jets pre and post recession?
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2019, 03:13 PM   #1912
Efthreeoh
Lieutenant General
United_States
6584
Rep
13,933
Posts

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
where can i see if F owned or leased corporate jets pre and post recession?
SEC filings...?
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2019, 08:38 PM   #1913
Efthreeoh
Lieutenant General
United_States
6584
Rep
13,933
Posts

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
selling carbon credits and the like is nothing new however when it's what is keeping you afloat versus your main product kind of difficult to swallow as an investor. it is similar to sear's... at their high point sear's owned approximately 30% of the commercial real estate in the US... since the mid oughts or so it is essentially the only thing keeping them alive... that doesn't make them a great retailer it just shows they are utilizing their assets to generate some revenue in order to keep the lights on. on a smaller scale if a local restaurant was having difficulty with revenue and debt but it has an apartment above it and the apartment rent is what is keeping the failing restaurant open it doesn't make the restaurant a success.
Carbon credits are the figment of Al Gore's imagination. They are not real, they are a political construct; carbon credits have no intrinsic value, which makes it actually worse using your comparisons. Commercial property value and revenue from rent are real economic assets.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission.
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2019, 09:08 PM   #1914
iconoclast
Self-Deprecating Narcissist
iconoclast's Avatar
No_Country
4157
Rep
4,381
Posts

Drives: Audi BMW Ferrari LR MB
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: In, Out & Around...

iTrader: (0)

i traded carbon credits, carbon credit etf and RIN... they are no different than a bitcoin. the only thing that makes them different from other asset classes or commodities is the market maker.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:42 PM.




g20
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST