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Technical Topics Suspension / Chassis / Brakes Suspension debate - adaptive or not?

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      07-18-2019, 06:13 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by NeverEnough007 View Post
Yes, I figured the test drives would involve run flats. They seem to be a special order only item.
Yeah, you're right, they aren't going to spec many without them. I wish I could have driven an adaptive with non-runflats to see how that felt, but I decided I wasn't going to take the chance that non-runflats would make it much smoother; Pilot Sport 4s are the best tires I have ever had, and do everything well, but I doubt they would alter the ride that much.
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      07-19-2019, 02:33 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Friedo225 View Post
Yeah, you're right, they aren't going to spec many without them. I wish I could have driven an adaptive with non-runflats to see how that felt, but I decided I wasn't going to take the chance that non-runflats would make it much smoother; Pilot Sport 4s are the best tires I have ever had, and do everything well, but I doubt they would alter the ride that much.
I'm looking to have the PS4 installed as soon as I can get my lazy butt to the dealership and get a quote.
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      07-19-2019, 06:45 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Friedo225 View Post
Yeah, you're right, they aren't going to spec many without them. I wish I could have driven an adaptive with non-runflats to see how that felt, but I decided I wasn't going to take the chance that non-runflats would make it much smoother; Pilot Sport 4s are the best tires I have ever had, and do everything well, but I doubt they would alter the ride that much.
The difference in ride smoothness between non runflat Yokohama and the Michelin PSS was significant. The yoks were almost new as well. Run flats are going to make the ride significantly more harsh over bumps than any high performance non run flat. The sidewalls have to hold the car up with no air pressure.
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      07-19-2019, 09:34 PM   #70
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passive + go flats = i'm happy
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      07-20-2019, 12:14 PM   #71
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I think I'm still confused.

If I go into Sports mode on my M340 do I still need to press the Adaptive button or is that button only if I want adaptive in Comfort mode?

When pressing in Comfort the dash indicator changes from Comfort to Adaptive and the button light lights up. When pressing in Sports mode the dash indicators stays as Sport and the button light doesn't light up.

Lastly, when I do press in Comfort mode, pressing again doesn't seem to turn Adaptive off but I can go to Eco and then back to Comfort and it goes off.
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      07-20-2019, 05:14 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd2 View Post
I think I'm still confused.

If I go into Sports mode on my M340 do I still need to press the Adaptive button or is that button only if I want adaptive in Comfort mode?

When pressing in Comfort the dash indicator changes from Comfort to Adaptive and the button light lights up. When pressing in Sports mode the dash indicators stays as Sport and the button light doesn't light up.

Lastly, when I do press in Comfort mode, pressing again doesn't seem to turn Adaptive off but I can go to Eco and then back to Comfort and it goes off.
The adaptive dampers are always working (I think) and the adaptive button does not turn them on or off. Adaptive button is a separate drive mode independent of comfort, sport, etc. Think of it as an auto mode that will adjust between drive programs comfort and sport (maybe eco pro too?) depending on multiple factors such as nav data, driver inputs. It is available when you have adaptive dampers and nav spec'd. If you're changing drive programs you may have to press the button more than once to get it to actually change.
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      07-21-2019, 12:51 PM   #73
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I have an M340i loaner this weekend. I drive an X5 but have owned numerous sports cars over the years and consider myself an aggressive driver.

I've been in the market for a new car and I've been considering the F80.. I recently did the M driving event where BMW let me drive an M5, M4, and M2 - all of these cars were competition models. After that day I begin searching and researching leasing certified preowned etc. for an M3. Of all those cars and drove I like the M4 at the most but I want to sit down with backseats and four doors so I've begun researching for an M3. This weekend I dropped off the X5 for a minor repair and they gave me a 2019 M340i as a loaner! No complaints here !! It is RWD with standard suspension - NOT adaptive.

My short take on the handling of this car is that it feels slightly too firm for every day driving to the "average consumer". I personally like it - I found it to be a nice compromise between support and comfort with more focus on the sport you definitely feel lots of bumps it is for sure stuff. my wife thinks it's too bumpy and doesn't like it.

While the car handles pretty well it definitely is not as tight as the M4 I drove - there's more body will go into corners.

I think what BMW is trying to do with the M3 40 I is bridge that gap between the base model and the true M3 / M4. They gave it a nice breaks it crackles and pops when you're in sport plus mode which really makes you feel like you're in a fast car and it honestly does have a ton of power it's got to be making more horsepower than the claimed 382 it pulls hard and I was really impressed with the transmission while it's not a dual clutch - it shifts really fast.

if the adaptive suspension would make the car slightly more comfortable and compliant when you're just cruising on the freeway I think that would be a positive but I would want the ability to make the car registered and at least as firm as the standard suspension model perhaps slightly stiff or when I put it into sport plus

If I was going to be on a aggressive weekend rip in the car I would want something stiffer with less body roll then what the standard suspension offers. To me the standard suspension is a great all-around a setting that primarily focuses more toward being it's 40 and firm with just enough comfort but it won't beat you up and drive you crazy but just keep in mind that "non-car" people are going to say "your car is bumpy"... and when you want to drive like a madman it's not going to be stiff enough for you! Hence I can see the appeal of an adjustable or adaptive setup.

has anyone driven both cars back to back and can offer their input?

After living with this car for the weekend I could see it as a viable alternative to buying a certified used F80 M3. It's less raw but it feels newer and nicer inside to me than the F80, much better technology....

It's a sweet ride no matter you configure it !
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      07-22-2019, 08:33 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd2 View Post
I think I'm still confused.

If I go into Sports mode on my M340 do I still need to press the Adaptive button or is that button only if I want adaptive in Comfort mode?

When pressing in Comfort the dash indicator changes from Comfort to Adaptive and the button light lights up. When pressing in Sports mode the dash indicators stays as Sport and the button light doesn't light up.

Lastly, when I do press in Comfort mode, pressing again doesn't seem to turn Adaptive off but I can go to Eco and then back to Comfort and it goes off.
My understanding is that in adaptive mode, your suspension is in comfort until you drive it hard or are approaching a corner pretty fast. My guess is the other modes just do what they say.
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      07-22-2019, 09:02 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by 23109VC View Post
I have an M340i loaner this weekend. I drive an X5 but have owned numerous sports cars over the years and consider myself an aggressive driver.

I've been in the market for a new car and I've been considering the F80.. I recently did the M driving event where BMW let me drive an M5, M4, and M2 - all of these cars were competition models. After that day I begin searching and researching leasing certified preowned etc. for an M3. Of all those cars and drove I like the M4 at the most but I want to sit down with backseats and four doors so I've begun researching for an M3. This weekend I dropped off the X5 for a minor repair and they gave me a 2019 M340i as a loaner! No complaints here !! It is RWD with standard suspension - NOT adaptive.

My short take on the handling of this car is that it feels slightly too firm for every day driving to the "average consumer". I personally like it - I found it to be a nice compromise between support and comfort with more focus on the sport you definitely feel lots of bumps it is for sure stuff. my wife thinks it's too bumpy and doesn't like it.

While the car handles pretty well it definitely is not as tight as the M4 I drove - there's more body will go into corners.

I think what BMW is trying to do with the M3 40 I is bridge that gap between the base model and the true M3 / M4. They gave it a nice breaks it crackles and pops when you're in sport plus mode which really makes you feel like you're in a fast car and it honestly does have a ton of power it's got to be making more horsepower than the claimed 382 it pulls hard and I was really impressed with the transmission while it's not a dual clutch - it shifts really fast.

if the adaptive suspension would make the car slightly more comfortable and compliant when you're just cruising on the freeway I think that would be a positive but I would want the ability to make the car registered and at least as firm as the standard suspension model perhaps slightly stiff or when I put it into sport plus

If I was going to be on a aggressive weekend rip in the car I would want something stiffer with less body roll then what the standard suspension offers. To me the standard suspension is a great all-around a setting that primarily focuses more toward being it's 40 and firm with just enough comfort but it won't beat you up and drive you crazy but just keep in mind that "non-car" people are going to say "your car is bumpy"... and when you want to drive like a madman it's not going to be stiff enough for you! Hence I can see the appeal of an adjustable or adaptive setup.

has anyone driven both cars back to back and can offer their input?

After living with this car for the weekend I could see it as a viable alternative to buying a certified used F80 M3. It's less raw but it feels newer and nicer inside to me than the F80, much better technology....

It's a sweet ride no matter you configure it !
I drove both of them back to back this weekend... In downtown Boston. Likely the worst roads in America. The adaptive equipped car had 19” wheels with Michelin runflats. The non-adaptive had 18” with Michelin runflats. The adaptive suspension on sport plus mode was nearly identical to the passive suspension in both spring rates and dampening. The passive dampening seemed slightly better at handing off roading conditions. I could feel the tires bouncing around just a tiny bit less. I am pretty sure that was the 18” tire vs the 19” tire. The difference was almost not notable.

The noticeable difference came in comfort mode. It wasn’t under dampened and squishy feeling like you would expect. It was still very tight and well dampened however, it cut about 2/3 of the road noise out. It was almost weird. Comfort handled the speed bump size raised manholes just a tiny bit better but, on even smooth pavement, the car just got silent. I am left wondering, with such a minimal suspension change in comfort mode, if the comfort mode implements some kind of noise canceling speaker work.

The value add of adaptive seems to be if you need to have a quite car for a sleeping newborn occasionally or have guests in the car that would enjoy talking at a lower level. Ultimately, $700 is not much if you need to cater to those things.
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      07-22-2019, 09:24 PM   #76
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Maybe the quietness comes from the rear air suspension that the adaptive system adds?
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      07-22-2019, 10:19 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by bimmer813 View Post
Maybe the quietness comes from the rear air suspension that the adaptive system adds?
The difference was between sport and comfort on the adaptive car. The passive suspensionisn’t impacted by those settings.
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      08-13-2019, 11:44 AM   #78
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itsglen,
I am assuming you have gotten your car by now. I'm assuming that others, along with I, would like to hear your opinions.
Thanks
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      09-27-2019, 05:58 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by mlcgd21 View Post
I don't understand why people don't always tick the box for the adaptive suspension, it's probably the best priced BMW option, at less than 1% of the car, and greatly improves.

The people who don't choose this option almost always regret the decision (me included).
I've driven lots of F30s and F80s with passive and adaptive suspension options, I personally prefer passive in both cases. I had an F30 on adaptive while my brother had a very similar F30 on passive suspension and we both strongly preferred driving his car, I wished I had skipped the option on my car. With the F80, I didn't have a choice (all of the Avus Blue M3s produced seemed to be built with ZCP including adaptive and other options) and it's not bad but I prefer the way M3s and M4s feel with the non-adaptive suspension option. I happen to feel that a big part of why M2 drives so nicely is its passive damping (among other things).

The above applies to me because of my preferences. If ride comfort and low road noise are a priority for you, adaptive is worth its weight in gold. The trade-off is being able to feel the damping occasionally being a step behind what the car is doing, some occasional jiggliness as it adjusts itself to changing conditions, etc. plus the adaptive suspension's tendency to be set to softer rebound settings until after you begin an aggressive maneuver makes steering responses feel a little less immediate / softer. These subtle things bother me more than the additional comfort / quieter ride that adaptive suspension gives me in the case of the systems BMW uses.

In the case of the G20's new lift-related dampers, I only drive an M340i once so far but was very happy with the way its suspension felt. I'm currently daily driving an F80 M3 ZCP - my M3 makes my previous F30 340i feel like an absolute wobbly, loose boat but the G20 M340i feels tight, agile, and sporty. Very impressive.
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      12-03-2019, 09:34 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlcgd21 View Post
I don't understand why people don't always tick the box for the adaptive suspension, it's probably the best priced BMW option, at less than 1% of the car, and greatly improves.

The people who don't choose this option almost always regret the decision (me included).
I've driven lots of F30s and F80s with passive and adaptive suspension options, I personally prefer passive in both cases. I had an F30 on adaptive while my brother had a very similar F30 on passive suspension and we both strongly preferred driving his car, I wished I had skipped the option on my car. With the F80, I didn't have a choice (all of the Avus Blue M3s produced seemed to be built with ZCP including adaptive and other options) and it's not bad but I prefer the way M3s and M4s feel with the non-adaptive suspension option. I happen to feel that a big part of why M2 drives so nicely is its passive damping (among other things).

The above applies to me because of my preferences. If ride comfort and low road noise are a priority for you, adaptive is worth its weight in gold. The trade-off is being able to feel the damping occasionally being a step behind what the car is doing, some occasional jiggliness as it adjusts itself to changing conditions, etc. plus the adaptive suspension's tendency to be set to softer rebound settings until after you begin an aggressive maneuver makes steering responses feel a little less immediate / softer. These subtle things bother me more than the additional comfort / quieter ride that adaptive suspension gives me in the case of the systems BMW uses.

In the case of the G20's new lift-related dampers, I only drive an M340i once so far but was very happy with the way its suspension felt. I'm currently daily driving an F80 M3 ZCP - my M3 makes my previous F30 340i feel like an absolute wobbly, loose boat but the G20 M340i feels tight, agile, and sporty. Very impressive.
Are you confusing the adaptive MODE with the adaptive suspension SYSTEM?

The adaptive suspension has the following modes:

ECO
COMFORT
SPORT
SPORT INDIVIDUAL
SPORT PLUS
ADAPTIVE

All of the modes are "fixed" (no on-the-fly adjustments) except for the ADAPTIVE mode which does do on-the-fly adjustments based on your current driving style and input from the navigation system. For example, if you are approaching a turn at a high rate of speed, in adaptive mode the system should automatically tighten the suspension up.

I personally don't use the adaptive mode but I love the adaptive system because it allows me to manually switch between comfort/sport modes depending on how I want to drive the car.
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      01-25-2020, 12:20 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownRoyal79 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlcgd21 View Post
I don't understand why people don't always tick the box for the adaptive suspension, it's probably the best priced BMW option, at less than 1% of the car, and greatly improves.

The people who don't choose this option almost always regret the decision (me included).
I've driven lots of F30s and F80s with passive and adaptive suspension options, I personally prefer passive in both cases. I had an F30 on adaptive while my brother had a very similar F30 on passive suspension and we both strongly preferred driving his car, I wished I had skipped the option on my car. With the F80, I didn't have a choice (all of the Avus Blue M3s produced seemed to be built with ZCP including adaptive and other options) and it's not bad but I prefer the way M3s and M4s feel with the non-adaptive suspension option. I happen to feel that a big part of why M2 drives so nicely is its passive damping (among other things).

The above applies to me because of my preferences. If ride comfort and low road noise are a priority for you, adaptive is worth its weight in gold. The trade-off is being able to feel the damping occasionally being a step behind what the car is doing, some occasional jiggliness as it adjusts itself to changing conditions, etc. plus the adaptive suspension's tendency to be set to softer rebound settings until after you begin an aggressive maneuver makes steering responses feel a little less immediate / softer. These subtle things bother me more than the additional comfort / quieter ride that adaptive suspension gives me in the case of the systems BMW uses.

In the case of the G20's new lift-related dampers, I only drive an M340i once so far but was very happy with the way its suspension felt. I'm currently daily driving an F80 M3 ZCP - my M3 makes my previous F30 340i feel like an absolute wobbly, loose boat but the G20 M340i feels tight, agile, and sporty. Very impressive.
Are you confusing the adaptive MODE with the adaptive suspension SYSTEM?

The adaptive suspension has the following modes:

ECO
COMFORT
SPORT
SPORT INDIVIDUAL
SPORT PLUS
ADAPTIVE

All of the modes are "fixed" (no on-the-fly adjustments) except for the ADAPTIVE mode which does do on-the-fly adjustments based on your current driving style and input from the navigation system. For example, if you are approaching a turn at a high rate of speed, in adaptive mode the system should automatically tighten the suspension up.

I personally don't use the adaptive mode but I love the adaptive system because it allows me to manually switch between comfort/sport modes depending on how I want to drive the car.
Are their people who have active sustension with RF but 18" ISO 19" where you dont feel an extra shock on the back button traffic speed Bumba.
Do they have the same isue? Or An other solution?
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      02-15-2020, 09:19 AM   #82
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Just thought I'd add an update to this thread now that I have a few months and over 2k miles in my m340i. I went with the standard suspension and run-flats. When I took delivery of the car I definitely spent the first 500 miles thinking "this is a really firm ride, which I'm ok with, but I think most people would think it's too rough." Borderline regretted not getting the adaptive suspension.

Fast forward to now and the suspension has definitely mellowed out a bit. Primarily the little bumps and cracks don't jolt the same way they did during the first 800 or so miles. Not soft by any means, but just thought I'd add an info point for anyone leaning towards the simpler suspension but drove a brand new one and found it borderline too stiff.
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      02-16-2020, 01:20 PM   #83
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We test drove a 330i with the base suspension and a M340i with the fixed sport suspension this weekend. Both had runflat tires.

For comparison, my wife currently has a 2012 328i with fixed sport suspension and runflat tires. I have an M240i vert with adaptive and non-runflats.

The 330i base suspension was surprisingly competent. In comparison, when we bought the 2012, we found the base suspension to be sort of floaty. The m340i was clearly stiffer, and the extra weight of the car seemed to need it.

The surface streets, and even freeways to some degree, around here can be punishing. We have a lot of ground shifting (old river flood plane clay) which quickly puts dips into brand-new roads. And it seems like they build new road surfaces for big SUVs, not sports cars. The 2012 fixed sport suspension can be punishing on them. I think the m340i fixed suspension is a bit more controlled, but still could be unpleasant when you're not in the mood to play.

I thought my m240i vert adaptive suspension was adaptive in all modes. It's definitely less floaty in comfort than the 2012 328 base suspension, and it's less jittery in sport than the 2012 fixed sport. It doesn't have a separate "adaptive" mode. Of course, comparing those two cars is apples vs oranges.
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      02-16-2020, 02:08 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bacampbe View Post
I thought my m240i vert adaptive suspension was adaptive in all modes. It's definitely less floaty in comfort than the 2012 328 base suspension, and it's less jittery in sport than the 2012 fixed sport. It doesn't have a separate "adaptive" mode. Of course, comparing those two cars is apples vs oranges.
F series models with adaptive suspension are active all the time. The statement in a previous post about fixed suspension is incorrect. There are no fixed suspension modes, if you have adaptive suspension. The last models I'm aware of that had an uncontrolled 'fixed' suspension setting was cars like the E92 M3 with EDC-K. Comfort and Normal were controlled (adaptive) settings, Sport was fixed.

G series models have the 'additional' Adaptive Mode. That is like an 'overlapping' adaptive mode with extra features, compared to Comfort or Sport suspension mapping.
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      02-16-2020, 07:19 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bacampbe View Post
I thought my m240i vert adaptive suspension was adaptive in all modes. It's definitely less floaty in comfort than the 2012 328 base suspension, and it's less jittery in sport than the 2012 fixed sport. It doesn't have a separate "adaptive" mode. Of course, comparing those two cars is apples vs oranges.
F series models with adaptive suspension are active all the time. The statement in a previous post about fixed suspension is incorrect. There are no fixed suspension modes, if you have adaptive suspension. The last models I'm aware of that had an uncontrolled 'fixed' suspension setting was cars like the E92 M3 with EDC-K. Comfort and Normal were controlled (adaptive) settings, Sport was fixed.

G series models have the 'additional' Adaptive Mode. That is like an 'overlapping' adaptive mode with extra features, compared to Comfort or Sport suspension mapping.
I wrote the post about switching between "fixed" modes.

So you're saying that the comfort/sport/sport+ modes are always active (i.e. continuously monitoring the sensors and making adjustments) but are just tuned to completely different profiles?

It seems that the adaptive mode has the ability to switch between the comfort/sport/sport+ profiles depending on how the car is being driven and on route information from the navigation system.
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      02-16-2020, 07:52 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownRoyal79 View Post
I wrote the post about switching between "fixed" modes.

So you're saying that the comfort/sport/sport+ modes are always active (i.e. continuously monitoring the sensors and making adjustments) but are just tuned to completely different profiles?

It seems that the adaptive mode has the ability to switch between the comfort/sport/sport+ profiles depending on how the car is being driven and on route information from the navigation system.
I think this is how it is as well. No fixed in any mode, but just different tolerances if you will. I keep mine in comfort (through my Sport Individual setting) for most of my daily driving. It's incredibly composed and compliant.
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      02-17-2020, 04:33 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownRoyal79 View Post
I wrote the post about switching between "fixed" modes.

So you're saying that the comfort/sport/sport+ modes are always active (i.e. continuously monitoring the sensors and making adjustments) but are just tuned to completely different profiles?

It seems that the adaptive mode has the ability to switch between the comfort/sport/sport+ profiles depending on how the car is being driven and on route information from the navigation system.
If we have a VDC suspension system in our BMW, it is active all the time. The modes simply change the damping characteristic map.

For example, in my F11 there are three damping maps. One for Comfort, one for Normal and one covering Sport and Sport+. I also have the active roll control. That has two maps, one covers Comfort and Normal modes. The other (stiffer map) covers Sport and Sport+ modes.

Models with the 'new' Adaptive Mode, have additional features which can (amongst other adaptions), widen (or overlap) the characteristic damper mapping. Can include the sport mapping when necessary, according to driving situation and demand, (predictive SatNav data, etc.), then revert back to the comfort mapping.
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      02-17-2020, 04:54 AM   #88
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Quote:
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I think this is how it is as well. No fixed in any mode, but just different tolerances if you will. I keep mine in comfort (through my Sport Individual setting) for most of my daily driving. It's incredibly composed and compliant.
Have you tried the Adaptive mode? BMW state the Adaptive mode has a comfort bias. Many find due to its ability to 'stiffen' a bit on demand, it is more comfortable to drive, as the body stays more composed.

I've no experience in the Gxx models with adaptive suspension, but it makes sense as it gives a mid range, similar to the Normal 'middle' mode in my F11. In my car Comfort gives the softest ride, but push on a bit and it is not as composed as running Normal mode, where better body control, without losing 'comfort' makes for the more balanced and better drive.

In technical terms the damper mapping is also more balanced around the spring rate. It has been an issue with the Fxx models with only the two base adaptive settings, not so matched to the spring rate. Adaptive Mode should help improve that, particularly for drivers who want comfort, but drive more enthusiastically.

Last edited by HighlandPete; 02-17-2020 at 05:01 AM..
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