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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G80 M3 / G82 M4 Forum (2019+) Here's what the radical G80 M3 will look like! BIMMERPOST renderings

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      10-10-2019, 04:23 PM   #925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
They are listening.....









.....to the future buyers of this car.
Are you a future buyer of the next M3 Sedan Clan?
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      10-10-2019, 06:55 PM   #926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hegge View Post
Are you a future buyer of the next M3 Sedan Clan?
Nope. I'll buy an ///M4.....again. FWIW, I'm not the future buyer that I'm referring to. The "future buyer" I'm referring to is the one targeted during the market analysis they did two years ago prior to this car being designed, and the progressive "future buyer" the company is trying to attract at the expense of older buyers who are resistant to change(s).
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      10-17-2019, 08:57 PM   #927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Nope. I'll buy an ///M4.....again. FWIW, I'm not the future buyer that I'm referring to. The "future buyer" I'm referring to is the one targeted during the market analysis they did two years ago prior to this car being designed, and the progressive "future buyer" the company is trying to attract at the expense of older buyers who are resistant to change(s).
The problem with this thesis is 3 fold:

(1.) There's always normal customer replacement: some try and move on, some age out of certain models, etc, thus any "future buyers" have to be beyond that normal turn-over which is typically pretty hard.

(2.) This is because the buyer personas per age group don't generally change much - thus any design change risks losing the existing personas, so the "future buyer" cohort has to be so large it replaces change-loss; in the product world, that's been typically almost impossible. New Coke is great example - they had to bring back old coke (coke classic!).

(3.) "Future buyer" behavior is unknown - even if you can overcome turn-over loss and design-change loss with the numbers of future buyers, it's unknown whether these buyers are loyal an will stick around or if they'll buy and fly. That's an enormous risk.

If BMW is opening up a new market that's so large they can't not go for it (i.e., China) then the risk may be worth it, but it's an awfully big risk.

With all of that said, us loyal BMW-buyers will probably overlook a design fail after the fact (i.e., not buy the beaver, but also not be dissuaded from buying the post-beaver).

So, if BMW thinks China is big enough opportunity to take a design risk, I could understand that. On the other hand, if they think "future buyer" is in existing markets, then I think they're making a huge mistake and there are reams of examples: New Coke, Crystal Pepsi, McD Arch Deluxe, Frito-lay Wow chips with olestra, Blackberry storm, etc

and lets' not forget that original big grille!

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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      10-17-2019, 09:30 PM   #928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
The problem with this thesis is 3 fold:

(1.) There's always normal customer replacement: some try and move on, some age out of certain models, etc, thus any "future buyers" have to be beyond that normal turn-over which is typically pretty hard.

(2.) This is because the buyer personas per age group don't generally change much - thus any design change risks losing the existing personas, so the "future buyer" cohort has to be so large it replaces change-loss; in the product world, that's been typically almost impossible. New Coke is great example - they had to bring back old coke (coke classic!).

(3.) "Future buyer" behavior is unknown - even if you can overcome turn-over loss and design-change loss with the numbers of future buyers, it's unknown whether these buyers are loyal an will stick around or if they'll buy and fly. That's an enormous risk.

If BMW is opening up a new market that's so large they can't not go for it (i.e., China) then the risk may be worth it, but it's an awfully big risk.

With all of that said, us loyal BMW-buyers will probably overlook a design fail after the fact (i.e., not buy the beaver, but also not be dissuaded from buying the post-beaver).

So, if BMW thinks China is big enough opportunity to take a design risk, I could understand that. On the other hand, if they think "future buyer" is in existing markets, then I think they're making a huge mistake and there are reams of examples: New Coke, Crystal Pepsi, McD Arch Deluxe, Frito-lay Wow chips with olestra, Blackberry storm, etc

and lets' not forget that original big grille!


Well it's all supposition at this point, but I'm sure we'll revisit this topic over the next two years to see how BMW fares once these cars are available in various markets.
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      10-17-2019, 09:43 PM   #929
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The general rule in any good business arrangement is it is almost always cheaper to retain existing customers and clientele than it is to acquire new ones. BMW needs to be really careful right now. They're already losing a lot of 3 series buyers to Tesla so they can't afford to gamble like this on the upcoming 4 series.
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      10-17-2019, 10:05 PM   #930
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The general rule in any good business arrangement is it is almost always cheaper to retain existing customers and clientele than it is to acquire new ones. BMW needs to be really careful right now. They're already losing a lot of 3 series buyers to Tesla so they can't afford to gamble like this on the upcoming 4 series.
Past tense! The gamble is done.
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      10-21-2019, 01:39 PM   #931
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sorry but there is nothing attractive about the G chassis M3/4 ... at least by looking at these renderings.

and while it is subjective... the Lexus designs are just as fugly for those that are praising them. The irony is that the G chassis 3 series really do look more like Toyotas than BMWs. Had a loaner 3 series and... it looks like a Camry. BMW needs to go back to their origins... and stay there. I get the cars have to change, but the grills and the JDM designs just aren't looking good.. my 2 cents.
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      11-11-2019, 02:54 AM   #932
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Originally Posted by Astro_train View Post
sorry but there is nothing attractive about the G chassis M3/4 ... at least by looking at these renderings.

and while it is subjective... the Lexus designs are just as fugly for those that are praising them. The irony is that the G chassis 3 series really do look more like Toyotas than BMWs. Had a loaner 3 series and... it looks like a Camry. BMW needs to go back to their origins... and stay there. I get the cars have to change, but the grills and the JDM designs just aren't looking good.. my 2 cents.
Well I don't know how you see a Camry in the G20 design. Certain attributes are Lexus-esque, but Camry?!?! Naw!
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      11-11-2019, 06:54 AM   #933
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Going to be interesting how this plays out in the US and European markets, does the kudos of owning an M car (that will very likely be excellent to drive) outweigh the ugliness of the car.

Going to be a difficult trick to pull off when the market is switching to SUV's/ hybrids/ EV's and the competition is so fierce.
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      11-11-2019, 08:12 AM   #934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
The problem with this thesis is 3 fold:

(1.) There's always normal customer replacement: some try and move on, some age out of certain models, etc, thus any "future buyers" have to be beyond that normal turn-over which is typically pretty hard.

(2.) This is because the buyer personas per age group don't generally change much - thus any design change risks losing the existing personas, so the "future buyer" cohort has to be so large it replaces change-loss; in the product world, that's been typically almost impossible. New Coke is great example - they had to bring back old coke (coke classic!).

(3.) "Future buyer" behavior is unknown - even if you can overcome turn-over loss and design-change loss with the numbers of future buyers, it's unknown whether these buyers are loyal an will stick around or if they'll buy and fly. That's an enormous risk.

If BMW is opening up a new market that's so large they can't not go for it (i.e., China) then the risk may be worth it, but it's an awfully big risk.

With all of that said, us loyal BMW-buyers will probably overlook a design fail after the fact (i.e., not buy the beaver, but also not be dissuaded from buying the post-beaver).

So, if BMW thinks China is big enough opportunity to take a design risk, I could understand that. On the other hand, if they think "future buyer" is in existing markets, then I think they're making a huge mistake and there are reams of examples: New Coke, Crystal Pepsi, McD Arch Deluxe, Frito-lay Wow chips with olestra, Blackberry storm, etc
I approve this message and you're spot on IMO.

I'm in that demographic that grew up in the 70/80's with a father who always drove a Ford whilst I dreamed of BMWs so as soon as I could afford them I jumped straight in and after 20 years and 12 of them you could say I'm starting to drift in my views after 5 straight M cars I've now gone upstairs to the 7er, (pre LCI) however the LCI 7er to me looks fantastic it's a massive degree of change but I think it works. Whereas many of my demographic don't and have recoiled at it.

For me M cars have always been subtly beefed up versions of a fairly sedate looking but handsome base car, the F80 M3 was to my eyes quite a departure in terms of its visual drama especially if added spacers and the HAS kit, it looked mean and moody in a way that previous M cars just didn't.

The F8* series have been a success and I think we've all loved the more pumped up nature of these M cars, so perhaps this is a natural step (if a groin stretching one) to a car with much more road presence (see the LCI 7er for details) I think it's going to be much more expensive as well and therefore that demographic will demand more "show" for their "dough".

But to your original point, as you say it's a big risk but then again a faint heart never fucked a pig, as they say in the rural states....
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      11-12-2019, 12:27 AM   #935
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Next car, unless they fuck up and proceed with THAT fugly grill
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      11-12-2019, 02:37 AM   #936
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Next car, unless they fuck up and proceed with THAT fugly grill
I don't think grilles will ever regress backward to smaller iterations. Once they're big, they remain big.
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      11-12-2019, 05:53 PM   #937
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I find those grilles to be hideous. I am on my second F83 (2015 an 2018). When the lease runs out on my 2018 I seriously doubt that I will lease another M4 convertible for two reasons - no more retractable hard top and that hideous grille.
I will likely move to Aston Martin.
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      11-15-2019, 02:17 AM   #938
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Looks like it's an M2 CS for me. Not a bad switch up
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      11-15-2019, 06:00 AM   #939
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Here's another shot of the new radical M3 grill
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      11-15-2019, 10:40 AM   #940
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I think it's hot .. reminds me of this.
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      11-15-2019, 09:10 PM   #941
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      12-04-2019, 05:19 PM   #942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I don't think grilles will ever regress backward to smaller iterations. Once they're big, they remain big.


Correction: Once they become big, they'll only become bigger.
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      12-06-2019, 06:21 PM   #943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFNATIK View Post
The general rule in any good business arrangement is it is almost always cheaper to retain existing customers and clientele than it is to acquire new ones. BMW needs to be really careful right now. They're already losing a lot of 3 series buyers to Tesla so they can't afford to gamble like this on the upcoming 4 series.
Exactly!
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      12-07-2019, 08:42 AM   #944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan
I don't think grilles will ever regress backward to smaller iterations. Once they're big, they remain big
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfile View Post
Correction: Once they become big, they'll only become bigger. :
Audi went with the oversized Trapezoidal Singleframe Grille in about 2005 and Lexus went with the oversized Spindle Grille in about 2012. BMW is coming in late in the game and IMO this trend is nearing the end of it's cycle because cars are going electric in the not too distant future and fully electric cars don't need grilles at all.

It's already beginning. The next generation Mercedes-AMG C63 is already rumored to be going hybrid with an electric powertrain coupled to a tiny 4-cyl engine. That's one foot out the door and fully electric is likely in the cards for the following generation. BMW will likely follow suit especially with the climate change concerns gaining momentum, and the likelihood is not good that the oversized grille trend will survive past the G8x generation. It would just be an oversized "fake vent"!
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      12-08-2019, 05:23 PM   #945
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Holding onto my E46 and E92 M3s, thank you very much.
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      12-08-2019, 05:23 PM   #946
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Quote:
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It's already beginning. The next generation Mercedes-AMG C63 is already rumored to be going hybrid with an electric powertrain coupled to a tiny 4-cyl engine. That's one foot out the door and fully electric is likely in the cards for the following generation. BMW will likely follow suit especially with the climate change concerns gaining momentum, and the likelihood is not good that the oversized grille trend will survive past the G8x generation. It would just be an oversized "fake vent"!
So the last of the ICE big grille cars may become "classics!"
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