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      09-13-2019, 10:18 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by openwheelracing View Post
1. You can fit kids in the back of a 3 series? Bravo.
2. You still auto cross with those same tires? Bravo.
And I did the same back in the day with a R53 MINI Cooper S...
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      09-13-2019, 11:14 AM   #46
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After being a BMW nut for almost 20 years, and owning 3 during this time (E46 330, E90 M3, E82 135), I am saddened to say, I am taking all the BMW paraphernalia out of my sight and out of my home. I just drove the latest 330 and was so thoroughly disappointed. It's not a bad car, and by millennial standards has enough tech gadgets to win over most people. It's just that BMW has sold their sole to the bean counters and now wants to be a Toyota, a car company that produces cars for everyone. From Grandma/pa, Mom/Dad hauling kids, to fresh graduates out of college. There was a time BMWs "Ultimate Driving Machine" logo was adorned on wannabe civics but now I am not sure their product befits their tag line. They need to let that go.

The M2 Competition is the last BMW I will buy on the used market to compliment my just-purchased Porsche Boxster S (Hydraulic steering, non-turbo flat 6, row your own gears kind of car)
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      09-13-2019, 11:46 AM   #47
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I also don't understand "BMW isn't best in any category"

What about...
Highest power, best weight balance, best economy and best performance, which are kind of important aren't they?
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      09-13-2019, 12:15 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by M3Dreams View Post
After being a BMW nut for almost 20 years, and owning 3 during this time (E46 330, E90 M3, E82 135), I am saddened to say, I am taking all the BMW paraphernalia out of my sight and out of my home. I just drove the latest 330 and was so thoroughly disappointed. It's not a bad car, and by millennial standards has enough tech gadgets to win over most people. It's just that BMW has sold their sole to the bean counters and now wants to be a Toyota, a car company that produces cars for everyone. From Grandma/pa, Mom/Dad hauling kids, to fresh graduates out of college. There was a time BMWs "Ultimate Driving Machine" logo was adorned on wannabe civics but now I am not sure their product befits their tag line. They need to let that go.

The M2 Competition is the last BMW I will buy on the used market to compliment my just-purchased Porsche Boxster S (Hydraulic steering, non-turbo flat 6, row your own gears kind of car)
See ya!
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      09-13-2019, 12:36 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by M3Dreams View Post
After being a BMW nut for almost 20 years, and owning 3 during this time (E46 330, E90 M3, E82 135), I am saddened to say, I am taking all the BMW paraphernalia out of my sight and out of my home. I just drove the latest 330 and was so thoroughly disappointed. It's not a bad car, and by millennial standards has enough tech gadgets to win over most people. It's just that BMW has sold their sole to the bean counters and now wants to be a Toyota, a car company that produces cars for everyone. From Grandma/pa, Mom/Dad hauling kids, to fresh graduates out of college. There was a time BMWs "Ultimate Driving Machine" logo was adorned on wannabe civics but now I am not sure their product befits their tag line. They need to let that go.

The M2 Competition is the last BMW I will buy on the used market to compliment my just-purchased Porsche Boxster S (Hydraulic steering, non-turbo flat 6, row your own gears kind of car)
I feel for ya, similar situation here. Wanted to love the new 3 series, but I only liked it, not love like my previous E36, 46 and 90. I said f*** it and plan on getting an M2C, its just such a great car and really feels like a true BMW at heart, and I can get one for less than the price of an M340i. Granted it doesn't have 4-doors, but the more I thought about it, the joy of the manual with the perfect size and handling of the M2 (close to E36/46 size) it was just too much to pass up on.

If I lived closer to a nicer Alfa dealership, I'd try doing a shorter 2 year lease on a Giulia, its a really great driving car, too bad reliability and dealer service from Alfa aren't really top notch, although from what I've heard, the 4-Cylinder is a "safer" bet. Friend has a 2017 TiSport (4-Cylinder) and is coming up on two years, only had a parking sensor go bad so far. He lives closer to the Annapolis dealer though which has much nicer service as its paired with Maserati and Porsche, rather than Dodge and Jeep.
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      09-13-2019, 12:42 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Cortexiphan View Post
I also don't understand "BMW isn't best in any category"

What about...
Highest power, best weight balance, best economy and best performance, which are kind of important aren't they?
Nah, that is not sufficient for the card carry bashers. They just want to hang around in BMW forums to constantly reminds us how stupid we are to own and drive modern BMWs.

The primma donnas have a market place littered with choice. They can burn their BMW memorabilia for all I care. If the cars and the direction of the brand doesn't fit them anymore, they are free to go elsewhere. Hyundai, Kia, Tesla, Alfa and Genesis have the cars that you want tailored to your very exacting and strict specifications. Happiness is only a greener pasture away!

Why continue to waste your time here?
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      09-13-2019, 01:14 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Nah, that is not sufficient for the card carry bashers. They just want to hang around in BMW forums to constantly reminds us how stupid we are to own and drive modern BMWs.

The primma donnas have a market place littered with choice. They can burn their BMW memorabilia for all I care. If the cars and the direction of the brand doesn't fit them anymore, they are free to go elsewhere. Hyundai, Kia, Tesla, Alfa and Genesis have the cars that you want tailored to your very exacting and strict specifications. Happiness is only a greener pasture away!

Why continue to waste your time here?
Agreed! I sure as hell don't hang out on Kawasaki/Yamaha/Honda forums when I'm a Ducati rider, and I sure as hell wouldn't hang out here if I decided that BMW was no longer for me. For people who feel disenchanted with the brand, join the TESLA/Alfa/Porsche/etc. forums and be merry.
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      09-13-2019, 01:23 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by M3Dreams View Post
After being a BMW nut for almost 20 years, and owning 3 during this time (E46 330, E90 M3, E82 135), I am saddened to say, I am taking all the BMW paraphernalia out of my sight and out of my home. I just drove the latest 330 and was so thoroughly disappointed. It's not a bad car, and by millennial standards has enough tech gadgets to win over most people. It's just that BMW has sold their sole to the bean counters and now wants to be a Toyota, a car company that produces cars for everyone. From Grandma/pa, Mom/Dad hauling kids, to fresh graduates out of college. There was a time BMWs "Ultimate Driving Machine" logo was adorned on wannabe civics but now I am not sure their product befits their tag line. They need to let that go.

The M2 Competition is the last BMW I will buy on the used market to compliment my just-purchased Porsche Boxster S (Hydraulic steering, non-turbo flat 6, row your own gears kind of car)
I completely understand where you're coming from but...the M2 competition is not even remotely in the same category/class as the 3 series sedan. It's a completely different car for a completely different buyer.

Listen, BMW is in the business of selling cars. Even Porsche with the weight of VW behind them had to come up with the cayenne/macan to stay afloat. The young new car buyer and the market demands SUVs/tech/isolation/comfort etc. That being said, BMW still delivered a car and tried to meet us more than half way. The car handles extremely well. It's so nimble and light feeling for its size and mass. The steering is not super heavy but is weighted nicely. It's comfortable and can hit 0-60 in 5.3(conservatively) while getting 40mpg on the highway. What more do people want? Does your daily commute take you through the nurburgring? I have some twisty back roads on my commute and i push this car so hard around turns yet can' barely get the tires to squeal. It's so composed and begging for more.


Everyone keeps repeating the same talking point about how incredible the Giulia is to drive-Is it all that great day to day though? There i said it. The brake peddle is a pile of mush that gives me no confidence in spirited driving. Everyone overlooks the steering which is lighter than a Camry, yet everyone seems to give the 3 series so much criticism for. The interior is from Chrysler parts bin and looks like its from 2009-def not $45k car worthy. Not a huge fan of the styling inside and out either. Not to mention the dealer/service/reliability issues. It's also not any cheaper leasing wise than a 330i.

Just out of curiosity, if you had to choose a car- what would you recommend in the luxury sports sedan category if not the 3 series ?

Last edited by alpinewhite3; 09-13-2019 at 01:56 PM..
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      09-13-2019, 02:04 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by alpinewhite3 View Post
I completely understand where you're coming from but...the M2 competition is not even remotely in the same category/class as the 3 series sedan. It's a completely different car for a completely different buyer.

Listen, BMW is in the business of selling cars. Even Porsche with the weight of VW behind them had to come up with the cayenne/macan to stay afloat. The young new car buyer and the market demands SUVs/tech/isolation/comfort etc. That being said, BMW still delivered a car and tried to meet us more than half way. The car handles extremely well. It's so nimble and light feeling for its size and mass. The steering is not super heavy but is weighted nicely. It's comfortable and can hit 0-60 in 5.3 while getting 40mpg on the highway. What more do people want? Does your daily commute take you through the nurburgring? I have some back twisty roads on my commute and i push this car so hard around turns yet can' barely get the tires to squeal. It's so composed and begging for more.


Everyone keeps repeating the same talking point about how incredible the Giulia is to drive-Is it all that great day to day though? There i said it. The brake peddle is a pile of mush that gives me no confidence in spirited driving. The steering is lighter than a Camry which everyone seems to give the new 3 series so much criticism for. The interior is from Chrysler parts bin and looks like its from 2009. Not a huge fan of the styling inside and out either. Not to mention the dealer/service/reliability issues. It's also not any cheaper leasing wise than a 330i.

Just out of curiosity, if you had to choose a car- what would you recommend in the luxury sports sedan category if not the 3 series ?
This will be controversial to many on here, but I'd actually recommend a Genesis G70. Yes it is a Hyundai derived product, but honestly if you can get past the badge, for the price it does many things just as well as a 3 series can and even surpasses it in some categories. Apparently a new valet service is also available (free for the first 3-years) meaning you physically don't have to visit the dealer which solves one of the Genesis' shortcomings, and while there are others (no car is perfect) its still a great car in many respects.

If you don't need 4-doors I'd go straight for a 2-Series as while the M2 gets all the praise and glory, the M240i and even the 230i are fantastic little coupes and handle very well.

For something new and different a Model 3 is something I'd recommend as well, as it really is a car like nothing else.

For a something aggressive and even a little more raw feeling, a C43 is also a good choice.

Of course I'd primarily recommend a 3-Series to someone, but there are many competing cars that are also very good that may fit someone better. Its no longer the early 2000's, competition is a good thing, and right now the competition has some great vehicles too, honestly you can't go wrong with many of these vehicles.
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      09-13-2019, 03:59 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
This will be controversial to many on here, but I'd actually recommend a Genesis G70. Yes it is a Hyundai derived product, but honestly if you can get past the badge, for the price it does many things just as well as a 3 series can and even surpasses it in some categories. Apparently a new valet service is also available (free for the first 3-years) meaning you physically don't have to visit the dealer which solves one of the Genesis' shortcomings, and while there are others (no car is perfect) its still a great car in many respects.

If you don't need 4-doors I'd go straight for a 2-Series as while the M2 gets all the praise and glory, the M240i and even the 230i are fantastic little coupes and handle very well.

For something new and different a Model 3 is something I'd recommend as well, as it really is a car like nothing else.

For a something aggressive and even a little more raw feeling, a C43 is also a good choice.

Of course I'd primarily recommend a 3-Series to someone, but there are many competing cars that are also very good that may fit someone better. Its no longer the early 2000's, competition is a good thing, and right now the competition has some great vehicles too, honestly you can't go wrong with many of these vehicles.
I own a 2018 C43 and a 2020 M340 ( which is my 4th Bmw ( e46, and 2 f30's after that before I got into the M340) and I much prefer the ride, handling and overall feel of the M340 and even my LCI F30 to that of the C43 . Also prefer the streamlined M340 interior and its more user friendly tech packages over those in my Mercedes.
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      09-13-2019, 04:01 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Wmzorba09 View Post
I own a 2018 C43 and a 2020 M340 ( which is my 4th Bmw ( e46, and 2 f30's after that before I got into the M340) and I much prefer the ride, handling and overall feel of the M340 and even my LCI F30 to that of the C43 . Also prefer the streamlined M340 interior and more user friendly tech packages over those in my Mercedes.
Different strokes for different folks, like I said, there all good cars
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      09-13-2019, 04:09 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by M3Dreams View Post
After being a BMW nut for almost 20 years, and owning 3 during this time (E46 330, E90 M3, E82 135), I am saddened to say, I am taking all the BMW paraphernalia out of my sight and out of my home. I just drove the latest 330 and was so thoroughly disappointed. It's not a bad car, and by millennial standards has enough tech gadgets to win over most people. It's just that BMW has sold their sole to the bean counters and now wants to be a Toyota, a car company that produces cars for everyone. From Grandma/pa, Mom/Dad hauling kids, to fresh graduates out of college. There was a time BMWs "Ultimate Driving Machine" logo was adorned on wannabe civics but now I am not sure their product befits their tag line. They need to let that go.

The M2 Competition is the last BMW I will buy on the used market to compliment my just-purchased Porsche Boxster S (Hydraulic steering, non-turbo flat 6, row your own gears kind of car)
Life is too short to drive anything less than what you love to drive. It doesn't matter if that is a BMW today and a Toyota tomorrow. You drive what you love to drive given the realities of what you're driving (meaning your compromises are ones you are happy with).

If you feel a company or brand isn't making products you want then go to the company that does. This is the absolute best advice for two simple reasons...

1. You follow my first point. You're driving what you love to drive today. Not hoping your "favorite brand" will come around and check off your love list.

2. Companies chase growth and that means a new customer is always more valuable than an existing customer. BMW needs to meet the demands of people driving competitive cars from their target demographic to force them to convert to driving a BMW. Brand loyal customers are considered a captive audience who can't be abandoned, but don't need to drive your focus. This is why you still see Coke ads when everyone on planet earth knows what a Coke is and probably has tasted one at least once in their lifetime. Coke still needs to capture new customers. They aren't advertising for their loyal customer base...

If you truly feel BMW isn't building a car for you this year or generation or whatever. Jump ship and come back if or when they ever do. You owe BMW no loyalty as you're giving them money and it isn't the other way around. I don't see a need to destroy your BMW gear... It isn't like they went back in time and destroyed your memories. But to each their own...

Modern consumers worship brands too much and forget that we have so much choice that we call the shots.

Last edited by LogicalApex; 09-13-2019 at 04:16 PM..
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      09-13-2019, 08:13 PM   #57
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C43 is over rated, and in the end is still behind the M340i in performance which is what matters. M2C as good as it is still compromised. G70 has a lousy trans, it's not superior to the M340, both cars does something better than the other. No need to tell us to consider the G70 3.3T, I test drove it and still chose the G20 because for me it was the better car.

The irony is that the people who endorses the competition every chance they get, don't own any of those cars. Go buy the alfa, Genesis et al, variety makes the world interesting. There's something for everyone. We don't need convincing to consider another car when we are already past that point.
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      09-13-2019, 08:44 PM   #58
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C43 is over rated, and in the end is still behind the M340i in performance which is what matters. M2C as good as it is still compromised. G70 has a lousy trans, it's not superior to the M340, both cars does something better than the other. No need to tell us to consider the G70 3.3T, I test drove it and still chose the G20 because for me it was the better car.

The irony is that the people who endorses the competition every chance they get, don't own any of those cars. Go buy the alfa, Genesis et al, variety makes the world interesting. There's something for everyone. We don't need convincing to consider another car when we are already past that point.
And the G70 has the worst fuel economy figures in the segment whether you go 2.0L Turbo or 3.3L V6. Rear seat legroom is a joke too. They should have made the G70 a 2 door coupe, why bother with 4 doors?
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      09-13-2019, 09:41 PM   #59
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And the G70 has the worst fuel economy figures in the segment whether you go 2.0L Turbo or 3.3L V6. Rear seat legroom is a joke too. They should have made the G70 a 2 door coupe, why bother with 4 doors?
Yep, the rear was so tight, i didn't even attempt to fit back there since there was virtually no leg room left after my seat was adjusted. Consider that I had a Lexus 3IS sedan and could fit easily behind the driver's seat in that car which is one of the smaller sedans in this class of cars.
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      09-14-2019, 08:20 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by alpinewhite3 View Post
I completely understand where you're coming from but...the M2 competition is not even remotely in the same category/class as the 3 series sedan. It's a completely different car for a completely different buyer.

Listen, BMW is in the business of selling cars. Even Porsche with the weight of VW behind them had to come up with the cayenne/macan to stay afloat. The young new car buyer and the market demands SUVs/tech/isolation/comfort etc. That being said, BMW still delivered a car and tried to meet us more than half way. The car handles extremely well. It's so nimble and light feeling for its size and mass. The steering is not super heavy but is weighted nicely. It's comfortable and can hit 0-60 in 5.3(conservatively) while getting 40mpg on the highway. What more do people want? Does your daily commute take you through the nurburgring? I have some twisty back roads on my commute and i push this car so hard around turns yet can' barely get the tires to squeal. It's so composed and begging for more.


Everyone keeps repeating the same talking point about how incredible the Giulia is to drive-Is it all that great day to day though? There i said it. The brake peddle is a pile of mush that gives me no confidence in spirited driving. Everyone overlooks the steering which is lighter than a Camry, yet everyone seems to give the 3 series so much criticism for. The interior is from Chrysler parts bin and looks like its from 2009-def not $45k car worthy. Not a huge fan of the styling inside and out either. Not to mention the dealer/service/reliability issues. It's also not any cheaper leasing wise than a 330i.

Just out of curiosity, if you had to choose a car- what would you recommend in the luxury sports sedan category if not the 3 series ?
I don't need a 4 door necessarily, and can do with a two door M2C. The M2 reminds me of the driving style and feeling that made me fall in love with BMW. Like I said, the new 3 is not a bad car, it just does not elicit the confidence inspiring feeling I am used to with the E generation cars. You are right that BMW has to sell cars to younger generations who want the car to self drive and hence all the tech wizardry is bringing in the isolation. They have taken all mechanical components out of steering, brakes, accelerator, transmission and made them electronic to facilitate self/assisted driving modes. I get that's what the new generation wants in a car. But then why call yourself the Ultimate Driving Machine when the driver is not even involved in driving.

To answer your question, I would recommend any E generation BMW over ANY other car, but I will ask them this question first: "Which car did they learn to drive with?" and based on their answer would recommend a BMW or a Porsche from that era.
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      09-14-2019, 08:29 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
Life is too short to drive anything less than what you love to drive. It doesn't matter if that is a BMW today and a Toyota tomorrow. You drive what you love to drive given the realities of what you're driving (meaning your compromises are ones you are happy with).

If you feel a company or brand isn't making products you want then go to the company that does. This is the absolute best advice for two simple reasons...

1. You follow my first point. You're driving what you love to drive today. Not hoping your "favorite brand" will come around and check off your love list.

2. Companies chase growth and that means a new customer is always more valuable than an existing customer. BMW needs to meet the demands of people driving competitive cars from their target demographic to force them to convert to driving a BMW. Brand loyal customers are considered a captive audience who can't be abandoned, but don't need to drive your focus. This is why you still see Coke ads when everyone on planet earth knows what a Coke is and probably has tasted one at least once in their lifetime. Coke still needs to capture new customers. They aren't advertising for their loyal customer base...

If you truly feel BMW isn't building a car for you this year or generation or whatever. Jump ship and come back if or when they ever do. You owe BMW no loyalty as you're giving them money and it isn't the other way around. I don't see a need to destroy your BMW gear... It isn't like they went back in time and destroyed your memories. But to each their own...

Modern consumers worship brands too much and forget that we have so much choice that we call the shots.
Agreed. The disappointment is just so huge when you have worshipped the brand and loved everything they have done for last 20 years. You are right, I do have a choice and I am moving to a new brand.
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      09-14-2019, 08:39 AM   #62
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Agreed. The disappointment is just so huge when you have worshipped the brand and loved everything they have done for last 20 years. You are right, I do have a choice and I am moving to a new brand.
Greener pastures await you at Alfa, Genesis, MB, Audi...
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      09-14-2019, 12:38 PM   #63
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Agreed. The disappointment is just so huge when you have worshipped the brand and loved everything they have done for last 20 years. You are right, I do have a choice and I am moving to a new brand.
What brand are you moving to? Are you moving to a vehicle that actually competes with the 3er?
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      09-14-2019, 01:03 PM   #64
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Agreed. The disappointment is just so huge when you have worshipped the brand and loved everything they have done for last 20 years. You are right, I do have a choice and I am moving to a new brand.
Which one? Does that mean you're done with Bimmerpost?
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      09-15-2019, 02:00 AM   #65
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Which one? Does that mean you're done with Bimmerpost?
Just about. Only thing keeping me here is because I still own an E82 135, and will be replacing it with an M2C.
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      09-15-2019, 02:05 AM   #66
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What brand are you moving to? Are you moving to a vehicle that actually competes with the 3er?
Porsche in general. Giving up on the thought of a practical sedan, so no 3er equivalent. Garage now holds a Mercedes GL 550, a BMW 135, and a Porsche Boxster S. 135 will be swapped for a M2C in the next couple of years.
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