[spederd]

Wow Sedan_Clan it is just unbelievable how you keep pushing and educating everyone that dares to say that they don't like this concept.

Design is a pretty subjective thing, maybe you should accept this and stop educating everyone how they are going to like this design and how they are going to buy it in a couple of years and how funny is that. Just because you like it, does not mean that you have to force your opinion on others.

Regarding the question if average the Joe and Jane is going to buy the car, the average sentiment I got from different platform is rather dislike and aversion, be it comments or votes on different online sites or comments on social media. Those peeps are not the whining bimmerpost fanboys.

Finally, to argue that BMW is a large corporation and for that they have to know what they are doing is just a fallacy. Because we haven't seen any large company or car manufacturer make a wrong decision and not understand what their customers wanted in the past or have we?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by spederd

Wow Sedan_Clan it is just unbelievable how you keep pushing and educating everyone that dares to say that they don't like this concept.

Design is a pretty subjective thing, maybe you should accept this and stop educating everyone how they are going to like this design and how they are going to buy it in a couple of years and how funny is that. Just because you like it, does not mean that you have to force your opinion on others.

Regarding the question if average the Joe and Jane is going to buy the car, the average sentiment I got from different platform is rather dislike and aversion, be it comments or votes on different online sites or comments on social media. Those peeps are not the whining bimmerpost fanboys.

Finally, to argue that BMW is a large corporation and for that they have to know what they are doing is just a fallacy. Because we haven't seen any large company or car manufacturer make a wrong decision and not understand what their customers wanted in the past or have we?

Still butthurt because you were wrong eh?!?

Listen.......we, as a forum, are having a discussion, and everybody (....most of whom have been on this forum awhile and there's rapport amongst us) is offering/contributing their own viewpoints and perspectives from their own vantage points. Shit or get off the pot. You obviously have a reading comprehension issue. I've been on this forum 14 years. Don't come in here and preach to me about decorum. You joined this forum with a know-it-all attitude.

[spederd]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Still butthurt because you were wrong eh?!?

Listen.......we, as a forum, are having a discussion, and everybody is offering/contributing their own viewpoints and perspectives from their own vantage points. Shit or get off the pot. You obviously have a reading comprehension issue. I've been on this forum 14 years. Don't come in here and preach to me about decorum.

No, I am not butthurt, if I remember correctly I was one of those who admitted it that you were right about the design.

My observation about the general sentiment was introduced regarding the topic of how the "average" people are going to like this design and if with this design BMW will be able to appeal to a broader range of customers. Since it was mentioned on the forum that BMW might try to appeal to certain customer groups by this new design. And I have mentioned what I saw on news sites and social media in relation to this topic.

Frankly, repeating "accept it" and now "shit or get off the pot" is neither arguing or having a conversation.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by spederd

No, I am not butthurt, if I remember correctly I was one of those who admitted it that you were right about the design.

My observation about the general sentiment was introduced regarding the topic of how the "average" people are going to like this design and if with this design BMW will be able to appeal to a broader range of customers. Since it was mentioned on the forum that BMW might try to appeal to certain customer groups by this new design. And I have mentioned what I saw on news sites and social media in relation to this topic.

Frankly, repeating "accept it" and now "shit or get off the pot" is neither arguing or having a conversation.

Comments about acceptance is me being frank about BMW's decision on design ethos. No amount of complaining or wishful thinking is going to change a decision whose genesis occurred 2 years ago. My "shit or get off the pot" statement basically meant......contribute something noteworthy or bounce. You are/were putting words in my mouth and/or twisting the intent behind certain things that I've stated.

This process has occurred as far back as I can remember. On Roadfly (...you might be too young in the tooth to remember that forum, but I could be wrong...), the E36 guys hated or complained about the E46; on E46Fanatics, a forum for which I moderate and have been on since 1999/2000, they hated or complained about the F8X, and so on. People complained about Bangle's controversial designs. This is the way things are. In a few years time, when IND is starting build threads where Bimmerpost members are drooling at the build (...which is NOT to suggest that everybody will love the front end of this car), we'll reflect back on these threads.

[tetsuo111]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Does this mean you'll be purchasing a Kia Stinger? Pics or bust!!!

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Does this mean you'll be purchasing a Kia Stinger? Pics or bust!!!

Why not a Stinger? Seriously?

The Stinger suspension and dynamics are the result of Albert Biermann's team and the former BMW M-Division suspension engineers. Remember the team responsible for the E30 - E46 M3? They're at Kia now.

The Kia and the current Cadillacs drive, handle, and ride better than current BMW M-cars. Based on first hand experience. Seems to be the consensus of the automotive press, too.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Mine is that the current lineup has nothing other than the name in common with the cars that established the performance heritage of the marque.

Designs like this are symptoms, not the problem.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by tetsuo111

Why not a Stinger? Seriously?

The Stinger suspension and dynamics are the result of Albert Biermann's team and the former BMW M-Division suspension engineers. Remember the team responsible for the E30 - E46 M3? They're at Kia now.

The Kia and the current Cadillacs drive, handle, and ride better than current BMW M-cars. Based on first hand experience. Seems to be the consensus of the automotive press, too.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Mine is that the current lineup has nothing other than the name in common with the cars that established the performance heritage of the marque.

Designs like this are symptoms, not the problem.

Nothing wrong with a Kia Stinger. I drove that car before it was ever released to the public. It's not a bad offering. I was mostly poking at you.


https://forum.e46fanatics.com/showth...120235?page=13

(Post #120, #121)

[440xiGCMSport2]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

It seems like some of you guys won't accept that this IS the new face of BMW until we're two years deep into the model run. This design language will touch the i4, 4, 2, 2GC, M2/3/4, and some other E-models. Accept it!

no one has to accept anything. Money speaks and the less people who purchase it the faster BMW will listen. accepting just means more of this ugly grille on more cars. Just means a Porsche or new Vette instead of M4.
At this price point a BMW better be listening or will lose to manufacturers who listen quicker.

[Trey1968]

oh god..... the horror.

[Wmzorba09]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

....now THIS is wishful thinking.

No this is bull***t

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

It seems like some of you guys won't accept that this IS the new face of BMW until we're two years deep into the model run. This design language will touch the i4, 4, 2, 2GC, M2/3/4, and some other E-models. Accept it!

May I suggest a title change from "Law Enforcer" to "Unofficial BMW Apologist"? Seems way more fitting given that you've been falling all over yourself promoting this design for almost 40 pages.

I'm beginning to think that you're actually on the BMW payroll. What else would explain your over-enthusiasm for this design other than the overwhelming desire to just be "right"? You've basically said "I told you so!", in so many words, dozens of times now. You've dominated this thread in a way that I've never seen before, and you refuse to accept that some people just don't like new GRILLE* and that's their opinion and you're not going to change it. I'm getting a little sick of it at this point, it's gotten obnoxious, it's too much, just like the new GRILLE*, so I'm out of this thread.

*Note: GRILLE is the correct spelling. Stop saying GRILL, that's where you cook burgers.

P.S. Reality check: You're obsessed with this topic, time to back away and take a deep breath.

[GrussGott]

See if you can guess which one!

Originally Posted by john_luvbimmer

A Japanese style car from BMW, or that the designer just wants to salute the good old time?!

[AlpineBoost]

But some major companies do listen to a small sample size of their fans venting on the internet. Right, wrong, who's to say?



I honestly just don't want to have to see this on the road, more than it affects any purchasing decision I would make. As I believe someone else has already stated, I will definitely be getting out of your way if you're behind me driving one of these, though the rear really isn't much better to have to look at. I may just try to get really good at driving with my eyes closed again.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Law

The F8x might briefly look dated compared to the G8x, no doubt, but then after a while, it will have its own appreciation, much like how the E30 looks undeniably 'old', but not in a bad way.
The real allure of the BMW M3/M4 is that they are truly benchmarks of their time. I do hope that the next M3/M4, even with a front end inspired/derived from this design, will be executed appropriately.

And further - the problem here is not "a huge grille" - that's like saying the problem with Pacer was it's a hatchback. Nope, the problem is, the BeaverMW design is as bad of a design as the Pacer was.

Or Bangle. Few (any?) look back on Bangle design and pine for the good ole days of dat butt:



Thing is, it's not like people didn't buy Pacers or Azteks or Bangle Butts, and G8x will sell too ... but the BeaverMW grille is just plain ole bad horrible design, like the Pacer.

And just like the Pacer or the BangleButt, this BeaverMW grille will always will be bad horrible design.



Those who like it, get in there and get some!



Sometimes design just sucks.

Let's stop pretending bad design will get better. It won't. It can only get less bad.

[FunBim]

I'm late in the game and I was kinda shocked at the front-end design (fine with other areas).

However, if I remember correctly, they announced the BMW i Vision Dynamics four-door Gran Coupé concept (a year or 2 ago?). This new 4 actually looks very similar. Then I think that maybe I shouldn't be shocked as I've been notified (or warned).

I think we will get used to it over time or after some LCIs. Sometimes it's good to be bold for change instead of copying from other designs. Unpredictable sometimes is better than predictable. Just look at the new boring iPhones for example.

[Law]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

And further - the problem here is not "a huge grille" - that's like saying the problem with Pacer was it's a hatchback. Nope, the problem is, the BeaverMW design is as bad of a design as the Pacer was.

Or Bangle. Few (any?) look back on Bangle design and pine for the good ole days of dat butt:



Thing is, it's not like people didn't buy Pacers or Azteks or Bangle Butts, and G8x will sell too ... but the BeaverMW grille is just plain ole bad horrible design, like the Pacer.

And just like the Pacer or the BangleButt, this BeaverMW grille will always will be bad horrible design.



Those who like it, get in there and get some!



Sometimes design just sucks.

I was thinking more E60 with its angel wing tail lights et al.
But even the E65 pre-LCI was eventually massaged into the E65 LCI, which was much, much, better front & rear.



But moreover, I'm certainly not apologizing for the new Concept 4 design nor am I saying I'm a fan, but I am keeping an open mind because if enough people buy it, then as far as BMW is concerned, it's a success.

Now that doesn't mean the design won't morph/evolve or mature into something that is more 'easily' acceptable with time, but "ugly", radical cars do serve a function when presented at the right time (and with a bit of luck, perhaps).

We can say what we want about the E65/E66, but that generation went on to become the most successful BMW 7 Series, Bangle-butt or not (a butt which was actually designed by Van Hooydonk, yes the same Van Hooydonk who, yesterday, presented us the Concept 4 on stage.)

[solstice]

Car companies has managed to push their never changing character less, no imagination, lazy design strategy into car buyers mind making them resist any new ideas. This crap has gone on since the 1980s when the car as equal part art and engineering was abandoned and replaced with a on all about function ethos were art and imaginative designs had no place.

Google cars from 1910, 1920 up to 1970 and marvel over the imaginative unique, sometime outrageous designs. A large grill now make people pee their pants and grab pitch forks, sad.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

May I suggest a title change from "Law Enforcer" to "Unofficial BMW Apologist"? Seems way more fitting given that you've been falling all over yourself promoting this design for almost 40 pages.

I'm beginning to think that you're actually on the BMW payroll. What else would explain your over-enthusiasm for this design other than the overwhelming desire to just be "right"? You've basically said "I told you so!", in so many words, dozens of times now. You've dominated this thread in a way that I've never seen before, and you refuse to accept that some people just don't like new GRILLE* and that's their opinion and you're not going to change it. I'm getting a little sick of it at this point, it's gotten obnoxious, it's too much, just like the new GRILLE*, so I'm out of this thread.

*Note: GRILLE is the correct spelling. Stop saying GRILL, that's where you cook burgers.

P.S. Reality check: You're obsessed with this topic, time to back away and take a deep breath.

Tell me how you really feel!


In all seriousness....


...So people can preach incessantly their feelings of contempt and disdain for this new design, but I can't equally provide a counter viewpoint of acceptance or positivity.....thus being labeled an apologist simply because I accept change?!? So in your mind, only one perspective is the [accepted] one. Anything else should promptly be disregarded. Where have we witnessed that frame of thinking before?!?!

[NathObeaN]

I'm torn. The rear and sides look spot on. I really like where they're going with the overall shape. It's just that grille. It doesn't seem 'right'. I admit it's less shocking to me compared to when I first saw it, but some of the photoshops I've seen with it shrunk down are massive improvements. They need to refine it before it goes into production for sure. If nothing else, blacked out it's slightly more bearable. Other than that, it gives me hope for the next M2. But to echo every other person on the Internet - BMW, fix the grilles!

[UGADawgFan]

Add me into the group that won't buy any more new BMW's...that's a face a mother would have trouble loving.

Anyone else see Mustang in the side profile and the hood crease?

[ktmM3]

Originally Posted by ZERO922

Is the BMW designer all right?

I think they have gone mentally insane.

[tetsuo111]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Nothing wrong with a Kia Stinger. I drove that car before it was ever released to the public. It's not a bad offering. I was mostly poking at you.


https://forum.e46fanatics.com/showth...120235?page=13

(Post #120, #121)

You have me mistaken with another. This is my first post related to the topic at hand.

My sentiment, however, is consistent across many threads.

[advantage20]

Although normally the dotted mesh grille should only be coming on the M Performance version(s) (M440i, M440d?), it might well come as standard across the whole range (bar the M4, likely), simply because the grille is just so large and might possibly look awkward with vertical slats. All prototypes that have been snapped so far seem to be wearing the mesh grille (except, again, the M4 prototypes which have horizontal M type double slats).

The new Z4 does come with the mesh grille even on the non-M Performance, non-M Sport, 20i version.



Yes, BMW has just launched huge grilles with vertical slats as well (LCI 7er, X7, X5 to an extent...), but those are status symbol models and/or SUVs and might well require the traditional chrome vertical slat design. The new coupés with large grilles though (4er, likely next 2er) might be getting a standard mesh grille across the board for a sportier look as standard.