[Habber]

Leave the camo on..

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by M2C_OZ

M2C / F90 M5 / M340 / X3M and probably more models have factory pops and burbles.

Yes.....and the pops and burbles in those cars are the result of the factory ECU tune which changes timing & fueling to create those pops and bangs. That's what the guy you were quoting is talking about, popping and burbling is controlled by software in all cars.

[Eddybro]

Originally Posted by JTO24

and realistically > 350-500lbs less + manual option

thank goodness they are still making a manual huh!

[Rotary Rasp]

3500lbs? haha, yea right...

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by JTO24

and realistically > 350-500lbs less + manual option

I would hope more than that, the X3 M already weighs 4600lbs!

[cheezsandwiches]

Originally Posted by carspotter1231

Sounds identical to x3mc or x4mc.

[JTO24]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

I would hope more than that, the X3 M already weighs 4600lbs!

I hope so, too! I didn't realize the X3M was that much, I was thinking more like 4300 lbs... I would love if the M3 came in around 3500ish lbs again but I feel it'll be closer to 3700-3900 lbs, especially the AWD versions.

[solstice]

Sounds a bit better than the S55 but man how quickly our standards have fallen...

This isn’t THAT long ago...

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by solstice

Sounds a bit better than the S55 but man how quickly our standards have fallen...

This isn't THAT long ago...

I greatly miss the days of bespoke M engines. Need something fresh and new. The S63 especially needs to be replaced with something different.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

I greatly miss the days of bespoke M engines. Need something fresh and new. The S63 especially needs to be replaced with something different.

Yes as IC engines become impossible in Europe and performance cars like the Taycan and the Tesla 100 models absorb the M market over there and in China I have hope there will be a period were BMW can go back to high cylinder count, high revving M cars built for countries that still allow and prefer large NA engines like the US and the gulf states. I hope but can’t say I have much confidence in it...

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

I greatly miss the days of bespoke M engines. Need something fresh and new. The S63 especially needs to be replaced with something different.

Originally Posted by solstice

hope but can't say I have much confidence in it...

That's a recurring theme at BMW right now, hoping for greatness but little confidence.

Honestly I just want to see them do some more cool stuff. I don't care if its an inline-6 or even an NA engine (I would actually prefer that!), I would just like them to take things to another notch, just something more unique, or raw, just different.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

That's a recurring theme at BMW right now, hoping for greatness but little confidence.

Honestly I just want to see them do some more cool stuff. I don't care if its an inline-6 or even an NA engine (I would actually prefer that!), I would just like them to take things to another notch, just something more unique, or raw, just different.

They'd offer cool and unique, but then the business case for sales wouldn't warrant it. Then the performance would suffer and people would complain about BMW's numbers compared to the competition.

[upsidedownfunnel]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

I greatly miss the days of bespoke M engines. Need something fresh and new. The S63 especially needs to be replaced with something different.

Other than the E90/E60 M3/M5, M engines have always been based on their lower specced counterparts. As good as the S65 V8 and S85 engine were, they were both less reliable than their predecessors so maybe it's a good thing BMW is going back to the days of the S54 and S50 when they just made improvements to an already ubiquitous and relatively reliable engine.

Maybe a reason BMW went with the V8 and V10 for the E60/90 is because they had just started turbocharging their engines around that time (2008?) and so they relied on increasing displacement to make sure their M cars were faster than their non-M counterparts while maintaining naturally aspirated engines. After that, there was no way they could hope to stay competitive without turbocharging their M cars. Most people buy M cars based on horsepower/acceleration, not on throttle response or high-revving engines.

[pbar]

Originally Posted by IB M

Calipers result of the electric handbrake.

Well that sucks... one of the little-appreciated features of recent M cars is that the handbrake is a completely separate drum brake so you can still use it at the track when the rear discs are super-heated without melting the pads to the disc.

Another track-centric feature bites the dust.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel

Other than the E90/E60 M3/M5, M engines have always been based on their lower specced counterparts. As good as the S65 V8 and S85 engine were, they were both less reliable than their predecessors so maybe it's a good thing BMW is going back to the days of the S54 and S50 when they just made improvements to an already ubiquitous and relatively reliable engine.

Maybe a reason BMW went with the V8 and V10 for the E60/90 is because they had just started turbocharging their engines around that time (2008?) and so they relied on increasing displacement to make sure their M cars were faster than their non-M counterparts while maintaining naturally aspirated engines. After that, there was no way they could hope to stay competitive without turbocharging their M cars. Most people buy M cars based on horsepower/acceleration, not on throttle response or high-revving engines.

Keep in mind, too, that as "cool and unique" as those motors you mentioned were, people constantly complained about the horrible gas mileage, among other things. Usher in the S55 with more power/torque AND much better mileage. There will always be something.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Keep in mind, too, that as "cool and unique" as those motors you mentioned were, people constantly complained about the horrible gas mileage, among other things. Usher in the S55 with more power/torque AND much better mileage. There will always be something.

Though, I loved mine with absolutely zero reservations. If there had been successors to the S85 and S65 with worse mileage in exchange for higher redline and more power I would have been

As for flat TQ it’s really not important to me as long as there always is a gear that give you that rush to the redline including a heavenly intake noise which both the S65 and S85 have. Maybe a life of superbikes has done that to me. The S55 and S63 are lazy man’s engines

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by solstice

Though, I loved mine with absolutely zero reservations. If there had been successors of the S85 and S65 with worse mileage in exchange for higher redline and more power I would have been

As for flat TQ it’s really not important to me as long as there always a gear that give you that rush to the redline which both the S65 and S85 have. The S55 and S63 are lazy man’s engines

Haha! Lazy only when DCT or auto.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Haha! Lazy only when DCT or auto.

To less extent with the MT, agreed

A note on fuel economy, the ~50k mile average with similar driving mix my S65 gave me 15.5 mpg while my S55 give me 16.5mpg so there’s that...

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by solstice

To less extent with the MT, agreed

A note on fuel economy, the ~50k mile average with similar driving mix my S65 gave me 15.5 mpg while my S55 give me 16.5mpg so there's that...

Conversely, during commute driving I can get about 28-30 MPG's out of the S55; about 19-21 MPG's out of the S65 driven the same way. That's a significant difference.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Conversely, during commute driving I can get about 28-30 MPG's out of the S55; about 19-21 MPG's out of the S65 driven the same way. That's a significant difference.

28-29mpg? Damn, I need to have mine checked up for leaks

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by solstice

28-29mpg? Damn, I need to have mine checked up for leaks

I get your kind of mileage only if I'm romping on it hard.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I get your kind of mileage only if I'm romping on it hard.

I saw 23 cruising from Munich to Bologna in my euro delivery, that's the best I’ve seen. Maybe I need a software update mine was delivered in June 2014. Or maybe not if an updated fuel map will impact power delivery...