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      07-12-2015, 07:42 PM   #45
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I would cry if half my inheritance went to govt as would most I suspect. I got a whopping 300 bucks when my dad died.
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      07-12-2015, 09:01 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Hoopdie doo for you. You make a lot of money, good for you. No slate is ever wiped clean if people keep crying that it's not. You said blacks can't be equal, I didn't: "Wealth creation through inheritance is a separate issue, materially unrelated to the general concept of white privilege (not all white's inherit wealth). Regardless, black Americans will never have the same ability to inherit wealth in America, partially because of slavery, partly because of Jim Crow, and partly because of fewer opportunities to build wealth."

So how is the slate wiped clean? What do us white folk need to do to satisfy you? Maybe the Irish in America can still cry about NINA. Maybe the Italians can keep crying about being stone masons and the mafia stigma. Christ, move on about it, everyone mostly has. That's what you don't understand, if you keep thinking systematic racism still exists when it really doesn't, then that's on you. If "systematic racism" still exists, them O'Bama and Ben Carson would not have the jobs they have.

When you make comments like "I bet you even have a black friend or two. No?" is a racist comment, but live how you want to live. Not an issue with me.

Peace.
You sir are a complete nut job. You ignore questions and go off on one tangent after another. You originally went off topic about wealth creation while the discussion was centered on the concept of "white privilege." You can't be that stupid so the obvious conclusion is that you go off topic quite a bit in everything you do to avoid answering questions.

Now you claim that I stated Blacks can't be equal to Whites. Huh?

The issue you brought up was inherited wealth, to which I replied that since Blacks have historically been prevented from accumulating wealth that would be impossible. This is an historical fact which is easily verifiable. You can't seem to follow along well so I assume you'll change the subject again in an attempt at obfuscation.

You also have a very hard time with concepts and/or you chose to be willfully ignorant. Systemic racism (I incorrectly typed systematic) truly does exist and that is the truth. You choose not to believe. You have a right to do that. POTUS and Ben Carson having their jobs proves not a damned thing. Democrats vote for the best Democratic candidate. Carson was/is an incredible medical talent. What's the mystery?

Systemic racism does not mean all Whites are racist, nor did I ever say that they were. It is possible to have a racist system without all players having racist tendencies.

I give up.
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      07-13-2015, 03:57 AM   #47
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You know MTV is desperate for viewers when they start putting garbage shows like this together.

Anyways, time to get back to my privileged white lifestyle. See ya!
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      07-13-2015, 11:53 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonnyJack View Post
You sir are a complete nut job. You ignore questions and go off on one tangent after another. You originally went off topic about wealth creation while the discussion was centered on the concept of "white privilege." You can't be that stupid so the obvious conclusion is that you go off topic quite a bit in everything you do to avoid answering questions.

Now you claim that I stated Blacks can't be equal to Whites. Huh?

The issue you brought up was inherited wealth, to which I replied that since Blacks have historically been prevented from accumulating wealth that would be impossible. This is an historical fact which is easily verifiable. You can't seem to follow along well so I assume you'll change the subject again in an attempt at obfuscation.

You also have a very hard time with concepts and/or you chose to be willfully ignorant. Systemic racism (I incorrectly typed systematic) truly does exist and that is the truth. You choose not to believe. You have a right to do that. POTUS and Ben Carson having their jobs proves not a damned thing. Democrats vote for the best Democratic candidate. Carson was/is an incredible medical talent. What's the mystery?

Systemic racism does not mean all Whites are racist, nor did I ever say that they were. It is possible to have a racist system without all players having racist tendencies.

I give up.
I looked at all your posts in response to my posts. You asked three questions:
1) Do I have one or two black friends? - I addressed that question as being a racist comment. And it was satirical none the less.

2) You guess that I think that sexism doesn't still exist in America. - I didn’t address that question since I can't answer whether you are guessing or not. And again, another satirical question.

3) Based on your assumption that I think slavery being abolished in 1865 and the establishment of the Voting Rights Act and the Great Society "wiped the slate clean" (I didn't say it did – wipe the slate clean was your term not mine), I asked you a question about what is it that will wipe the slate clean that slavery was practiced in the US and racism can be ended. I'd really like to know what your definition of “wiped the slate clean” is. Seriously, what does it mean, "wipe the slate clean"? Does it mean erase the historical fact that slavery was practiced in the US? Does it mean that white people are proven to be no longer racist? Are we to skip down the street together holding hands saying “I love you" to each other? Are us white people supposed to give up our houses, cars, retirement funds, etc. as reparations? Are we to wait until all the old racist white people die out? I forget which Liberal said that one; it might have been Opra IIRC…

I put hard things on the table to consider and you don’t like it, so I get called a nut job.

My point about POTUS Obama and Dr. Carson is if there is systemic racism in the US, then how would it be ever possible for Obama to be elected president and Dr. Carson allowed to be educated to become a neurosurgeon; the term “systemic” means, respectively in these cases, the electoral process and the medical education system would not allow for either man to achieve what they achieved. In both cases the “system” did work in their favor.

The world is full of injustice(s), none of which can be erased or wiped clean from the blackboard as historical fact, so either a person can wallow in sorrow that it happened to them, or they can chose to wipe the issue clean from their mind and not let it influence their thoughts and actions moving forward. Racism against Black people and racism against White people, and racism against Asian people, and racism against Hispanic people, et.al. is just a part of life. You sound as if you believe the World will not work if racism exists; which is an implausible thought. It’s a utopian thought and is a nice thought to have, but in reality it is unrealistic. Life is not perfect. I wish, as you do, life would be perfect.
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Last edited by Efthreeoh; 07-14-2015 at 04:56 AM..
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      07-16-2015, 04:49 AM   #49
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Crickets....
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission.
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      07-16-2015, 06:18 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
....Are us white people supposed to give up our houses, cars, retirement funds, etc. as reparations? Are we to wait until all the old racist white people die out? I forget which Liberal said that one; it might have been Opra IIRC…

I put hard things on the table to consider and you don’t like it, so I get called a nut job.

My point about POTUS Obama and Dr. Carson is if there is systemic racism in the US, then how would it be ever possible for Obama to be elected president and Dr. Carson allowed to be educated to become a neurosurgeon; the term “systemic” means, respectively in these cases, the electoral process and the medical education system would not allow for either man to achieve what they achieved. In both cases the “system” did work in their favor.

The world is full of injustice(s), none of which can be erased or wiped clean from the blackboard as historical fact, so either a person can wallow in sorrow that it happened to them, or they can chose to wipe the issue clean from their mind and not let it influence their thoughts and actions moving forward. Racism against Black people and racism against White people, and racism against Asian people, and racism against Hispanic people, et.al. is just a part of life. You sound as if you believe the World will not work if racism exists; which is an implausible thought. It’s a utopian thought and is a nice thought to have, but in reality it is unrealistic. Life is not perfect. I wish, as you do, life would be perfect.
Red:
Nobody in their right mind thinks actions of that nature would solve the problem. Were that the case, a class of people could periodically "purchase reparations for their discrimination of the past X years," and then " rinse and repeat" every so often as needed.

Blue:
We can for them to pass on, but that's hardly going to solve the problem. Racism is something that's taught, be it explicitly passed on by telling one's children that another group is "not as good as they are," or by tacitly doing so either (1) by making generalizations about members of other races without expressly referring to any specific individuals whom are known to oneself, or (2) by extrapolating the undesirable/unappealing acts of specific individuals whom one knows to their race as a whole.

The problem does get solved when each individual parent or person having a key role in the development of children (teachers, parents of one's kids' friends, etc.):
  1. Learns the ways in which racism and/or lesser forms of unfair bias manifest themselves.*
  2. Recognizes that they may have a degree of racial bias,
  3. Commits and carries through with not passing that bias on to their kids,
  4. Commits and carries through with not displaying their bias before others who may see them as role models, and
  5. Recognizing that racism and discrimination is wrong, bother to speak up and socially ostracize their peers who exhibit racism and it's effects.
Once that starts happening, in time racism and it's outcome, discrimination, will eventually disappear. It won't happen quickly, but it will happen. The sooner folks embrace the idea that there's something wrong and embrace their role in doing something about it, the sooner it'll go away.

The fact is that racism is an emotion based in fear. It's an entirely irrational fear. There simply is no reason to fear another human -- on any level -- because their skin color or ethnic identity group differs from one's own. Consider all the hatred Jews have endured over hundreds of years.** To me, many Jews look just like every other white person on the street, save for the Jews who adopt outward symbols of their faith. Why it is that Jews have caught so much animosity from other white folks is something I won't ever understand beyond intellectually knowing what's been stated as the reasons for the various pogroms and such directed their way over the years.

*Note:
There's little question in my mind that not all forms of bias are as detrimental as "wholesale" racism such as what we had in much of U.S. prior to the 1970s. All the same, the minor forms need to be squelched just as much as do the major forms. Both need to happen because racism is a "slippery slope" emotion. I think that it's just as important to to recognize the minor manifestations just as much as it is to see the gross ones, and the various degrees in between. One thing's for sure, we can't do much about them if we don't understand what they are.

I don't mean "slippery slope" as an argument, I mean it as a pattern of behavior. That is, as more and more racism is tolerated, the problem gets worse, but as less and less of it is tolerated, the problem gets better.

Another thing that's worth noting is that, IMO, what is and isn't racism, bias, discrimination isn't something to be debated. People who are suffering as the result of an act or set of acts don't claim those acts are racist/biased in their expression because they find it pleasing or convenient to do so. They claim that because they are feel a very real sense of pain/hurt and they can't identify any good and justifiable reason why they as individuals or as a class should have been hurt as they have been.

**Note:
Bias toward Jews is classed as racism, but really I don't know why seeing as Judaism isn't a race, but that's neither here nor there; what they've suffered is without question wrong and unfair. I suspect for some Jews being Jewish reaches the level of being an ethnicity, such as with Middle Eastern Arab Jews. I don't want to get into whether Jewishness is or isn't an ethnicity beyond saying that I don't see how it can be because on cannot convert into an ethnicity but one can convert into a spiritual belief system.

Anecdotal Sidebar that is not critical to the post, but perhaps informative or interesting to read:
In my own relatively privileged life, I haven't had to deal with racism all that much. I know my parents are racists, to a lesser degree now than they were some 60 years aog, but I also know I didn't find that out until I was in my mid-to-late-twenties. My folks were aware of their racist emotions, but they also knew it was wrong and they went out of their way to not pass their beliefs on to me. By the time I discovered my parents' racist "core," I'd already formed my own views on the matter based on my own experiences.

I've seen racism and the resulting discrimination actively and deliberately displayed exactly once in my life. The situation was that a fellow was looking to get an apartment in (posh) Kalorama, DC. The guy called to say that he though he'd be a few minutes late for his 5:15 pm appointment but was in the neighborhood looking for parking and would be there very shortly.

The person renting the space said that wasn't a problem for the place hadn't been taken. I was there to hear that conversation over the speaker phone. About 30 seconds later the guy rang the doorbell and upon seeing the guy -- black, in his 20s, good looking, well dressed and well groomed, and seeing as he had a mobile phone, probably not at all poor (it was August of 1989) -- the person offering the apartment apologized saying the place had been rented.

Everyone there, including the black guy, knew damn well the place had not been rented. It turns out he'd managed to get a parking spot right in front of the building (a row house style apartment building) and wasn't late at all. I guess a spot, perhaps the one prior potential tenant left, opened up as he was on the phone.

I was flabbergasted, mortified, embarrassed, disgusted, angry, disappointed and more! Even now, writing about that event 25+ years, three children, a divorce, and a career later, I can still feel some of those same emotions. In fact, what I feel is more than emotional; I feel a tinge of sickness in my stomach and a lump in my throat.

That's neither here nor there....from that instant -- and I'm hard pressed to think of any other events in my life that had no direct personal impact on me and that I can yet recall, let alone with such clarity -- my relationship with the apartment owner was over. I told him how wrong he was and I told him that if that guy decided to sue him for housing discrimination I'd testify.

We've seen each other randomly from time to time over the years, but our interaction never goes beyond "Hi. How are you? Fine. And you?" I don't speak ill of the guy, in fact, until writing this post, I haven't in 25 years spoken of him at all, not even to my closest friends, and, apparently, he accords me the same respect. That's enough as far as I'm concerned; it at least shows that while he was/is a racist gentleman, he's nonetheless a gentleman.

His kids and mine never gravitated together, and thank God for that; I am so glad for that, only because it means I've not been forced to consider the issue in that light. There's nothing I would like about potentially having to warn my kids about some other kids solely because of what I know about those other kids' father. Those other kids' nasty attitude would hardly be their fault, but that doesn't mean I would fail to tell my kids to be on the lookout for racist leanings in them. As I wrote above, I know racism is a thing that's taught.

Did the guy who was my friend learn anything from that experience? Has he changed? I don't know. I would think if he had, he'd have let me know because he's surely aware I've not shared that story with other folks in our social circle.
End sidebar.

Green:
In spite of my awareness that racism and discrimination exists in U.S., I have a very hard time thinking it's systemic. At one point it certainly was and the impacts of its having been so have a legacy that's present even now. I think "endemic" is more what it is, although I think (I hope, at least) even that term is a little bit too strong connotatively, though descriptively and directionally an apt one for the racism we see in U.S.

Orange:
Saying "racism is a part of life" certainly expresses a reality that is so in U.S. today. Unfortunately, statements of that nature carry with them an undertone of acquiescence that is the enemy of our taking action, individually in our immediate lives and as a society, to evolve a culture in which racism no longer exists.

Purple:
No, it's not. But that doesn't mean each of us should throw up our hands in apathy and abdicate our responsibility for doing our own little part to bring it closer to perfection. I'm not suggesting we each need do more than the five things I noted at the start of the blue section of this post.

The reality is that each and everyone of us knows quite well whether we harbor some degree of racially or ethnically motivated bias or unfairness in our hearts and minds. Too, we all know whether we display that bias before others, others who, whether we know it or not, may see us as role models and thereby emulate our behaviors, parrot our words and adopt our thoughts.

I don't blame you, myself or anyone else for third parties according us role model status in their minds -- none of us can know who is every Tom, Dick and damn Harry who'll look up to us -- but I absolutely blame each of us for the spiteful behaviors we express, whereby in so doing we convey to those looking up to us the idea that "if 'so and so' does it and s/he's [insert positive trait], then it's not terrible for me to mimic their words, deeds, thoughts." The fact is that no matter how we see ourselves in society, each of us can, for someone else, be a role model whether we want to, think we deserve to be, or not.

With that recognition comes responsibility. By merely accepting it, we can make life more perfect than it is. Eradicating unfair bias, racial/ethnic bias, won't make life perfect, but it's (1) something that's possible to do, and (2) something that will make life better for everyone involved.

Re: my last statement, I think a lot of the problem we face today in U.S. is that historically racism has been seen and cast as a problem that makes things worse for the minority folks who are the objects of the racist feelings of the majority. What needs to happen next is for white folks, the majority, to realize that their own lives will be better off once they are believed as not likely to be racists, be it collectively as a race (I think that much is certain even now), or individually, or in various small associations. I know it will have to be nice for members of all races to feel the freedom that accompanies not having to "walk on eggshells" as they try to interact with each other. Once everyone -- blacks, whites, yellows, browns, reds, etc. -- actually believes that racism isn't the inspiration for the actions that hurt us, we'll all be in a better position to address those hurtful acts objectively rather than emotionally.

All the best.
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      07-16-2015, 09:18 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
Red:
Nobody in their right mind thinks actions of that nature would solve the problem. Were that the case, a class of people could periodically "purchase reparations for their discrimination of the past X years," and then " rinse and repeat" every so often as needed.

Blue:
We can for them to pass on, but that's hardly going to solve the problem. Racism is something that's taught, be it explicitly passed on by telling one's children that another group is "not as good as they are," or by tacitly doing so either (1) by making generalizations about members of other races without expressly referring to any specific individuals whom are known to oneself, or (2) by extrapolating the undesirable/unappealing acts of specific individuals whom one knows to their race as a whole.

The problem does get solved when each individual parent or person having a key role in the development of children (teachers, parents of one's kids' friends, etc.):
  1. Learns the ways in which racism and/or lesser forms of unfair bias manifest themselves.*
  2. Recognizes that they may have a degree of racial bias,
  3. Commits and carries through with not passing that bias on to their kids,
  4. Commits and carries through with not displaying their bias before others who may see them as role models, and
  5. Recognizing that racism and discrimination is wrong, bother to speak up and socially ostracize their peers who exhibit racism and it's effects.
Once that starts happening, in time racism and it's outcome, discrimination, will eventually disappear. It won't happen quickly, but it will happen. The sooner folks embrace the idea that there's something wrong and embrace their role in doing something about it, the sooner it'll go away.

The fact is that racism is an emotion based in fear. It's an entirely irrational fear. There simply is no reason to fear another human -- on any level -- because their skin color or ethnic identity group differs from one's own. Consider all the hatred Jews have endured over hundreds of years.** To me, many Jews look just like every other white person on the street, save for the Jews who adopt outward symbols of their faith. Why it is that Jews have caught so much animosity from other white folks is something I won't ever understand beyond intellectually knowing what's been stated as the reasons for the various pogroms and such directed their way over the years.

*Note:
There's little question in my mind that not all forms of bias are as detrimental as "wholesale" racism such as what we had in much of U.S. prior to the 1970s. All the same, the minor forms need to be squelched just as much as do the major forms. Both need to happen because racism is a "slippery slope" emotion. I think that it's just as important to to recognize the minor manifestations just as much as it is to see the gross ones, and the various degrees in between. One thing's for sure, we can't do much about them if we don't understand what they are.

I don't mean "slippery slope" as an argument, I mean it as a pattern of behavior. That is, as more and more racism is tolerated, the problem gets worse, but as less and less of it is tolerated, the problem gets better.

Another thing that's worth noting is that, IMO, what is and isn't racism, bias, discrimination isn't something to be debated. People who are suffering as the result of an act or set of acts don't claim those acts are racist/biased in their expression because they find it pleasing or convenient to do so. They claim that because they are feel a very real sense of pain/hurt and they can't identify any good and justifiable reason why they as individuals or as a class should have been hurt as they have been.

**Note:
Bias toward Jews is classed as racism, but really I don't know why seeing as Judaism isn't a race, but that's neither here nor there; what they've suffered is without question wrong and unfair. I suspect for some Jews being Jewish reaches the level of being an ethnicity, such as with Middle Eastern Arab Jews. I don't want to get into whether Jewishness is or isn't an ethnicity beyond saying that I don't see how it can be because on cannot convert into an ethnicity but one can convert into a spiritual belief system.

Anecdotal Sidebar that is not critical to the post, but perhaps informative or interesting to read:
In my own relatively privileged life, I haven't had to deal with racism all that much. I know my parents are racists, to a lesser degree now than they were some 60 years aog, but I also know I didn't find that out until I was in my mid-to-late-twenties. My folks were aware of their racist emotions, but they also knew it was wrong and they went out of their way to not pass their beliefs on to me. By the time I discovered my parents' racist "core," I'd already formed my own views on the matter based on my own experiences.

I've seen racism and the resulting discrimination actively and deliberately displayed exactly once in my life. The situation was that a fellow was looking to get an apartment in (posh) Kalorama, DC. The guy called to say that he though he'd be a few minutes late for his 5:15 pm appointment but was in the neighborhood looking for parking and would be there very shortly.

The person renting the space said that wasn't a problem for the place hadn't been taken. I was there to hear that conversation over the speaker phone. About 30 seconds later the guy rang the doorbell and upon seeing the guy -- black, in his 20s, good looking, well dressed and well groomed, and seeing as he had a mobile phone, probably not at all poor (it was August of 1989) -- the person offering the apartment apologized saying the place had been rented.

Everyone there, including the black guy, knew damn well the place had not been rented. It turns out he'd managed to get a parking spot right in front of the building (a row house style apartment building) and wasn't late at all. I guess a spot, perhaps the one prior potential tenant left, opened up as he was on the phone.

I was flabbergasted, mortified, embarrassed, disgusted, angry, disappointed and more! Even now, writing about that event 25+ years, three children, a divorce, and a career later, I can still feel some of those same emotions. In fact, what I feel is more than emotional; I feel a tinge of sickness in my stomach and a lump in my throat.

That's neither here nor there....from that instant -- and I'm hard pressed to think of any other events in my life that had no direct personal impact on me and that I can yet recall, let alone with such clarity -- my relationship with the apartment owner was over. I told him how wrong he was and I told him that if that guy decided to sue him for housing discrimination I'd testify.

We've seen each other randomly from time to time over the years, but our interaction never goes beyond "Hi. How are you? Fine. And you?" I don't speak ill of the guy, in fact, until writing this post, I haven't in 25 years spoken of him at all, not even to my closest friends, and, apparently, he accords me the same respect. That's enough as far as I'm concerned; it at least shows that while he was/is a racist gentleman, he's nonetheless a gentleman.

His kids and mine never gravitated together, and thank God for that; I am so glad for that, only because it means I've not been forced to consider the issue in that light. There's nothing I would like about potentially having to warn my kids about some other kids solely because of what I know about those other kids' father. Those other kids' nasty attitude would hardly be their fault, but that doesn't mean I would fail to tell my kids to be on the lookout for racist leanings in them. As I wrote above, I know racism is a thing that's taught.

Did the guy who was my friend learn anything from that experience? Has he changed? I don't know. I would think if he had, he'd have let me know because he's surely aware I've not shared that story with other folks in our social circle.
End sidebar.

Green:
In spite of my awareness that racism and discrimination exists in U.S., I have a very hard time thinking it's systemic. At one point it certainly was and the impacts of its having been so have a legacy that's present even now. I think "endemic" is more what it is, although I think (I hope, at least) even that term is a little bit too strong connotatively, though descriptively and directionally an apt one for the racism we see in U.S.

Orange:
Saying "racism is a part of life" certainly expresses a reality that is so in U.S. today. Unfortunately, statements of that nature carry with them an undertone of acquiescence that is the enemy of our taking action, individually in our immediate lives and as a society, to evolve a culture in which racism no longer exists.

Purple:
No, it's not. But that doesn't mean each of us should throw up our hands in apathy and abdicate our responsibility for doing our own little part to bring it closer to perfection. I'm not suggesting we each need do more than the five things I noted at the start of the blue section of this post.

The reality is that each and everyone of us knows quite well whether we harbor some degree of racially or ethnically motivated bias or unfairness in our hearts and minds. Too, we all know whether we display that bias before others, others who, whether we know it or not, may see us as role models and thereby emulate our behaviors, parrot our words and adopt our thoughts.

I don't blame you, myself or anyone else for third parties according us role model status in their minds -- none of us can know who is every Tom, Dick and damn Harry who'll look up to us -- but I absolutely blame each of us for the spiteful behaviors we express, whereby in so doing we convey to those looking up to us the idea that "if 'so and so' does it and s/he's [insert positive trait], then it's not terrible for me to mimic their words, deeds, thoughts." The fact is that no matter how we see ourselves in society, each of us can, for someone else, be a role model whether we want to, think we deserve to be, or not.

With that recognition comes responsibility. By merely accepting it, we can make life more perfect than it is. Eradicating unfair bias, racial/ethnic bias, won't make life perfect, but it's (1) something that's possible to do, and (2) something that will make life better for everyone involved.

Re: my last statement, I think a lot of the problem we face today in U.S. is that historically racism has been seen and cast as a problem that makes things worse for the minority folks who are the objects of the racist feelings of the majority. What needs to happen next is for white folks, the majority, to realize that their own lives will be better off once they are believed as not likely to be racists, be it collectively as a race (I think that much is certain even now), or individually, or in various small associations. I know it will have to be nice for members of all races to feel the freedom that accompanies not having to "walk on eggshells" as they try to interact with each other. Once everyone -- blacks, whites, yellows, browns, reds, etc. -- actually believes that racism isn't the inspiration for the actions that hurt us, we'll all be in a better position to address those hurtful acts objectively rather than emotionally.

All the best.
Tony, I appreciate your attempt to answer, really, but you've not claimed to be of African American decent and made mention that your family owned slaves. I told you about my Father and his attempt to help DC's poorer residents to own their houses rather than rent, and how white liberals prevented him from helping. What I didn't tell you is my grandfather owned Woodlawn cemetery from around 1943 to 1958. My father worked there in high school and college and as he said "he dug graves for black people" in reference to his opposition to racism. My father raised the fist woman in the mortgage banking industry to the position of Vice President. So while I appreciate your input I really didn't ask for it.

What I did ask for was SonnyJack, who indicates he is African American, how the slate can be wiped clean. Any of the prominent African American leaders I've listened to have never said how the slate gets wiped clean. I really, honestly want to know. SonnyJack's position is because I'm white I don't understand what white privilege means, so, no offense intended, neither can you. In fact, the Wikipedia definition of white privilege even states white people can't understand what it is, which of course I consider to be bullshit.

I'd love to hear from SonnyJack.
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      07-16-2015, 09:29 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Tony, I appreciate your attempt to answer, really, but you've not claimed to be of African American decent and made mention that your family owned slaves. I told you about my Father and his attempt to help DC's poorer residents to own their houses rather than rent, and how white liberals prevented him from helping. What I didn't tell you is my grandfather owned Woodlawn cemetery from around 1943 to 1958. My father worked there in high school and college and as he said "he dug graves for black people" in reference to his opposition to racism. My father raised the fist woman in the mortgage banking industry to the position of Vice President. So while I appreciate your input I really didn't ask for it.

What I did ask for was SonnyJack, who indicates he is African American, how the slate can be wiped clean. Any of the prominent African American leaders I've listened to have never said how the slate gets wiped clean. I really, honestly want to now. SonnyJack's position is because I'm white I don't understand what white privilege means, so, no offense intended, neither can you. In fact, the Wikipedia definition of white privilege even states white people can't understand what it is, which of course I consider to be bullshit.

I'd love to hear from SonnyJack.
The slate cannot be wiped clean, it is what it is.
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      07-16-2015, 09:37 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
I have the privileged to have worked my ass off so that now, a part of my pretty decent pay check can go to some lazy bottom feeder. While this fucker sits on his lazy, unemployed (and unemployable do to lack of even basic skills) and complains about how good I have it and how unfair life is.

You're the man.

Rise early, Work hard, strike oil. The average person has no drive to earn, work harder than anyone else and make life better. It's sad. I could elaborate but it's not worth it.
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      07-17-2015, 03:53 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Tony, I appreciate your attempt to answer, really, ...
Cool, for I found your post thought provoking and it inspired me to toss my two cents in.

Frankly, I'm interested to see the other member's response as well.

All the best.
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      07-17-2015, 01:23 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by SonnyJack View Post
Sorry to hear you're tired of being inundated with the truth. Why does the truth bother you any way? Accept it for what it is and move on. The fact that you mention the end of slavery 150 yrs ago and the civil rights act 50ish yrs ago clouds any discussion with you. Do you really feel as though the slate was wiped clear and all things made equal after the civil rights act? WOW!
I find these bolded statements to be interesting.

Is the truth of today the only relevant truth? Or does the truth of the past mater as well?

What would you like to see done now that would make things equal for all?
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      07-17-2015, 10:35 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I looked at all your posts in response to my posts. You asked three questions:
1) Do I have one or two black friends? - I addressed that question as being a racist comment. And it was satirical none the less.

2) You guess that I think that sexism doesn't still exist in America. - I didn’t address that question since I can't answer whether you are guessing or not. And again, another satirical question.

3) Based on your assumption that I think slavery being abolished in 1865 and the establishment of the Voting Rights Act and the Great Society "wiped the slate clean" (I didn't say it did – wipe the slate clean was your term not mine), I asked you a question about what is it that will wipe the slate clean that slavery was practiced in the US and racism can be ended. I'd really like to know what your definition of “wiped the slate clean” is. Seriously, what does it mean, "wipe the slate clean"? Does it mean erase the historical fact that slavery was practiced in the US? Does it mean that white people are proven to be no longer racist? Are we to skip down the street together holding hands saying “I love you" to each other? Are us white people supposed to give up our houses, cars, retirement funds, etc. as reparations? Are we to wait until all the old racist white people die out? I forget which Liberal said that one; it might have been Opra IIRC…

I put hard things on the table to consider and you don’t like it, so I get called a nut job.

My point about POTUS Obama and Dr. Carson is if there is systemic racism in the US, then how would it be ever possible for Obama to be elected president and Dr. Carson allowed to be educated to become a neurosurgeon; the term “systemic” means, respectively in these cases, the electoral process and the medical education system would not allow for either man to achieve what they achieved. In both cases the “system” did work in their favor.

The world is full of injustice(s), none of which can be erased or wiped clean from the blackboard as historical fact, so either a person can wallow in sorrow that it happened to them, or they can chose to wipe the issue clean from their mind and not let it influence their thoughts and actions moving forward. Racism against Black people and racism against White people, and racism against Asian people, and racism against Hispanic people, et.al. is just a part of life. You sound as if you believe the World will not work if racism exists; which is an implausible thought. It’s a utopian thought and is a nice thought to have, but in reality it is unrealistic. Life is not perfect. I wish, as you do, life would be perfect.
Against my better judgment I'll play along a bit longer:

1) You wrote...."Do I have one or two black friends? - I addressed that question as being a racist comment. And it was satirical none the less."

If you say so. However, if you had one or two close black friends you would probably already know about white privilege and systemic racism.

2) You wrote...."You guess that I think that sexism doesn't still exist in America. - I didn’t address that question since I can't answer whether you are guessing or not. And again, another satirical question."

This was really an easy one to answer, but I guess you felt trapped by the way I asked the question. YES, it exists.

3) Clean slate, POTUS, Ben Carson, yada, yada, yada.

For some reason you brought up slavery ending 150 years ago....."It's tiring that after 150 years since slavery was abolished in the USA (by Conservative white people), and the Voting Rights Act and the Great Society (both passed against the desires of the Democrats by white conservative Republicans), and a mixed-race man with predominantly black features elected as the “First Black President” of the United States, and men and women such as Condoleezza Rice and Ben Carson (just using recent African-Americans predominantly in the news) have risen to the status they have, let alone Clarence Thomas as Supreme Court justice, we still have the term "white privilege" in use."

The above quote is also what brought on my comment about the clean slate. You bring up a few token examples of black success and that leads you to believing that all are equal. Unfortunately, nothing could be farther from the truth. A perfect example lies in the criminal justice system. How is it that by some accounts 85% of prison population is black, while most crime in America is committed by whites?

Using 2013 FBI stats:

Total arrests = Whites 6,214,197, Blacks 2,549,655

Murder and non-negligent manslaughter = Whites 3,799, Blacks 4,379
Forcible Rape = Whites 8,946, Black 4,229
Robbery = Whites 32,945 Blacks 44,271
Aggravated assault = Whites 183,092 Blacks 98,748
Burglary = Whites 136,990 Blacks 61,709
Larceny-theft = Whites 677,173 Blacks 284,358
Violent crime2 = Whites 228,782 Blacks 151,627
Property crime2 = Whites 855,225 Blacks 363,952
Stolen property; buying, receiving = Whites 50,237 Blacks 22,687
Weapons; carrying, possessing, etc. = Whites 65,317 Blacks 44,671
Drug abuse violations = Whites 815,181 Black 365,785
Offenses against the family and children = Whites 51,017 Blacks 25,519
Disorderly conduct = Whites 231,604 Blacks 129,782

I believe the above stats to be accurate and they represent systemic racism. Blacks do not commit more crimes, but they end up doing more time. A very current example is in the local news. The white FBI agent who got hooked on painkillers and then stole heroin from the evidence vault in order to self-medicate. His actions led to the release of nearly three dozen guilty heroin dealers. He got three whole years.

You have countless black first offenders in prison for decades due to crack cocaine, not to mention the impact this has had on the black family, yet the privileged white FBI agent whose father was a retired cop, got three years. This is systemic racism.

Did you know that there is more white on white crime than there is black on black crime? Have you even heard the phrase "white on white crime?" I sure haven't. The media loves talking about black on black crime, yet they never, ever, discuss white on white crime, nor ask the white communities what they are doing to fight the issue. This is systemic racism.

Remember that Bundy guy in Arizona who has been basically stealing from the government for decades. Remember the standoff out at his ranch? That would be the standoff where white citizens pointed semi-automatic rifles at law enforcement? Remember that? Not a damned thing happened to those "protestors" and the government even backed down. Remember Ferguson, MO? Peaceful protestors faced police in full riot gear; had sniper rifles pointed at them, were gassed and arrested. This is systemic racism.

Have you heard of Greenwood? Google it if you like. The area was known in 1921 as "Black Wall Street." It was an extremely successful area in which blacks had built a thriving business, and accumulated wealth far superior to many whites in the area. Know what happened to it? White folks got angry and burned the entire city to the ground, killing many. They even used WW1 airplanes to bomb American citizens. Did you know that? Then guess what happened. They rebuilt and thrived again! In the end it was the interstate system which ended Greenwood's prosperity. The government decided to run the interstate straight through Greenwood. This was systemic racism as well.

Blacks seem to congregate in cities. Do you know why? Housing rules from as far back as the early 1900's forced blacks into segregated housing. In later years, blacks were prevented from buying homes in what we today call the suburbs. These rules forced blacks into large urban cities as the only available housing options. Fewer job opportunities, and little to no wealth accumulation has perpetuated this situation. This was/is systemic racism.

Did you know that Baltimore was a large experiment to test the effects of lead paint exposure? Poor black families were deliberately allowed to live in homes with pealing lead-based paint. Freddie Gray, yes, that Freddie Gray was a child in the study who was tested and known to have been exposed to horrendously high levels of paint. The damage caused by exposure to lead paint is irreversible. The US was the last country to outlaw lead-based paint, which has damaged so many young black children. This is systemic racism.

I could go on and on and on, but to what avail?

You said...."The world is full of injustice(s), none of which can be erased or wiped clean from the blackboard as historical fact, so either a person can wallow in sorrow that it happened to them, or they can chose to wipe the issue clean from their mind and not let it influence their thoughts and actions moving forward."

That's another WOW statement! Wiping the issue clear from my mind does nothing to address the issue of racism or privilege. I can't change either. Only white people like you and Tony20009 are capable of doing that. When I bring up a simple truth, you perceive me as the angry black man and nothing is accomplished.

For change to occur, those persons of the privileged class must be willing to speak up about the change necessary to improve society. How long does it take? I have no idea. But what I do know is that brushing it off as somehow unimportant, ensures no change will happen.

Systemic/structural racism (the terms are synonymous) does not mean it's impossible for blacks to advance, just means the path toward success is paved with more obstacles than for whites.

I have attached a pdf for you
Attached Images
File Type: pdf Structural Racism.pdf (79.4 KB, 1028 views)
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      07-17-2015, 10:52 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
I find these bolded statements to be interesting.

Is the truth of today the only relevant truth? Or does the truth of the past mater as well?

What would you like to see done now that would make things equal for all?
Whose truth? The actual events as they occurred, or a water-downed version suited to portray Americans as less murderous then we were? Remembering history is of paramount importance, yet great pains seem to be taken to show that this country's history wasn't as bad as it really was.

Texas is the latest example. They plan on changing future public school history books to state that slavery was only a secondary issue for the states which chose to secede. The articles of secession were very clear that slavery was the primary reason.

We were murderers. We exterminated Native Americans. We enslaved for centuries. We terrorized via Jim Crow and the KKK. We held lynching parties and we have pictures of such lynchings complete with smiling attendees.

The complete truth, both of today, and history, no matter how ugly should be told.

How to make things equal? I don't know. Start with an acknowledgment that there is a problem. Until that happens it is impossible to do more.
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      07-18-2015, 08:37 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by SonnyJack View Post
Against my better judgment I'll play along a bit longer:

1) You wrote...."Do I have one or two black friends? - I addressed that question as being a racist comment. And it was satirical none the less."

If you say so. However, if you had one or two close black friends you would probably already know about white privilege and systemic racism.

2) You wrote...."You guess that I think that sexism doesn't still exist in America. - I didn’t address that question since I can't answer whether you are guessing or not. And again, another satirical question."

This was really an easy one to answer, but I guess you felt trapped by the way I asked the question. YES, it exists.

3) Clean slate, POTUS, Ben Carson, yada, yada, yada.

For some reason you brought up slavery ending 150 years ago....."It's tiring that after 150 years since slavery was abolished in the USA (by Conservative white people), and the Voting Rights Act and the Great Society (both passed against the desires of the Democrats by white conservative Republicans), and a mixed-race man with predominantly black features elected as the “First Black President” of the United States, and men and women such as Condoleezza Rice and Ben Carson (just using recent African-Americans predominantly in the news) have risen to the status they have, let alone Clarence Thomas as Supreme Court justice, we still have the term "white privilege" in use."

The above quote is also what brought on my comment about the clean slate. You bring up a few token examples of black success and that leads you to believing that all are equal. Unfortunately, nothing could be farther from the truth. A perfect example lies in the criminal justice system. How is it that by some accounts 85% of prison population is black, while most crime in America is committed by whites?

Using 2013 FBI stats:

Total arrests = Whites 6,214,197, Blacks 2,549,655

Murder and non-negligent manslaughter = Whites 3,799, Blacks 4,379
Forcible Rape = Whites 8,946, Black 4,229
Robbery = Whites 32,945 Blacks 44,271
Aggravated assault = Whites 183,092 Blacks 98,748
Burglary = Whites 136,990 Blacks 61,709
Larceny-theft = Whites 677,173 Blacks 284,358
Violent crime2 = Whites 228,782 Blacks 151,627
Property crime2 = Whites 855,225 Blacks 363,952
Stolen property; buying, receiving = Whites 50,237 Blacks 22,687
Weapons; carrying, possessing, etc. = Whites 65,317 Blacks 44,671
Drug abuse violations = Whites 815,181 Black 365,785
Offenses against the family and children = Whites 51,017 Blacks 25,519
Disorderly conduct = Whites 231,604 Blacks 129,782

I believe the above stats to be accurate and they represent systemic racism. Blacks do not commit more crimes, but they end up doing more time. A very current example is in the local news. The white FBI agent who got hooked on painkillers and then stole heroin from the evidence vault in order to self-medicate. His actions led to the release of nearly three dozen guilty heroin dealers. He got three whole years.

You have countless black first offenders in prison for decades due to crack cocaine, not to mention the impact this has had on the black family, yet the privileged white FBI agent whose father was a retired cop, got three years. This is systemic racism.

Did you know that there is more white on white crime than there is black on black crime? Have you even heard the phrase "white on white crime?" I sure haven't. The media loves talking about black on black crime, yet they never, ever, discuss white on white crime, nor ask the white communities what they are doing to fight the issue. This is systemic racism.

Remember that Bundy guy in Arizona who has been basically stealing from the government for decades. Remember the standoff out at his ranch? That would be the standoff where white citizens pointed semi-automatic rifles at law enforcement? Remember that? Not a damned thing happened to those "protestors" and the government even backed down. Remember Ferguson, MO? Peaceful protestors faced police in full riot gear; had sniper rifles pointed at them, were gassed and arrested. This is systemic racism.

Have you heard of Greenwood? Google it if you like. The area was known in 1921 as "Black Wall Street." It was an extremely successful area in which blacks had built a thriving business, and accumulated wealth far superior to many whites in the area. Know what happened to it? White folks got angry and burned the entire city to the ground, killing many. They even used WW1 airplanes to bomb American citizens. Did you know that? Then guess what happened. They rebuilt and thrived again! In the end it was the interstate system which ended Greenwood's prosperity. The government decided to run the interstate straight through Greenwood. This was systemic racism as well.

Blacks seem to congregate in cities. Do you know why? Housing rules from as far back as the early 1900's forced blacks into segregated housing. In later years, blacks were prevented from buying homes in what we today call the suburbs. These rules forced blacks into large urban cities as the only available housing options. Fewer job opportunities, and little to no wealth accumulation has perpetuated this situation. This was/is systemic racism.

Did you know that Baltimore was a large experiment to test the effects of lead paint exposure? Poor black families were deliberately allowed to live in homes with pealing lead-based paint. Freddie Gray, yes, that Freddie Gray was a child in the study who was tested and known to have been exposed to horrendously high levels of paint. The damage caused by exposure to lead paint is irreversible. The US was the last country to outlaw lead-based paint, which has damaged so many young black children. This is systemic racism.

I could go on and on and on, but to what avail?

You said...."The world is full of injustice(s), none of which can be erased or wiped clean from the blackboard as historical fact, so either a person can wallow in sorrow that it happened to them, or they can chose to wipe the issue clean from their mind and not let it influence their thoughts and actions moving forward."

That's another WOW statement! Wiping the issue clear from my mind does nothing to address the issue of racism or privilege. I can't change either. Only white people like you and Tony20009 are capable of doing that. When I bring up a simple truth, you perceive me as the angry black man and nothing is accomplished.

For change to occur, those persons of the privileged class must be willing to speak up about the change necessary to improve society. How long does it take? I have no idea. But what I do know is that brushing it off as somehow unimportant, ensures no change will happen.

Systemic/structural racism (the terms are synonymous) does not mean it's impossible for blacks to advance, just means the path toward success is paved with more obstacles than for whites.

I have attached a pdf for you
Thanks for taking the time to reply, I'm sure it took a good deal of time to research and assemble into a well-structured response. I don't have any "close" friends that are black at this point in my life. I had some close friends in high school that were black and some early in my professional career, but we never seemed to have the need to discuss racism. To be frank, it's been my observation in the past 40 years or so that white and black people got along with each other better than they do now, that's just my personal experience.

At one point in the past 5 years or so, I managed a group of 8 professionals 3 who were African American. It's really 4 African Americans in total but a few moved on to different positions, sort of rotated in an out of my group. I never had the need to discuss racism with them either, you generally don't in the professional work environment; and these days, as a white person, it can be easily misconstrued to turn into a "HR Event" (you can read into that what you want). However, if you were able to ask them, they'd all probably respond that I was a decent manager. My father taught me not to look at people as black or white, so I didn't treat anyone in my group differently than the others based on their ethnicity.

But I do have relationships with some black coworkers that I think, based on all of our management levels and maturity (read we're all over 50 and have the same general life experiences), I'll bring some of your points up here with them to get their read on systemic racism. I'm sure it will be an interesting conversation. The one guy I have in mind, his grandmother lives in or near Baltimore, so I'll see his take on lead paint.

Speaking of, I'm old enough to remember lead paints, I used lead paints, I used to paint and repair houses for a living during high school and college, I remember when lead was banned from paint (and gasoline). Lead was banned in paint in 1977 and in gasoline in the early '70's and finally phased out in 1996. I remember the ads on national TV in the '70s in favor of banning lead paint. The ads used to show images of poor black children, unsupervised, eating lead paint chips. The thing about the Baltimore lead paint experiment (I'll have to look it up) - and I did hear some snippet recently about it on the news - is Freddie Gray was only 25, and lead paint was banned 38 years ago, so the timing doesn't make sense to me. First, since lead paint was banned 38 years ago, I can't understand the need for some secret human experiment in Baltimore that could of occurred in the past 25 years; it just doesn't make sense. Second, if Freddie Gray lived in public-assisted housing, I'm sure, due to Federal Regulation, that it was free of lead-based paint by the time Freddie Gray was in his early childhood, when exposure (eating) lead paint has its worst effect. I'm not refuting what you've offered here, but I'm a bit skeptic due to the timing. I can say that lead was far more prevalent in my childhood than Freddie Gray's, and while I'll not claim to be anywhere close to genius, I'm far above being a drug dealer. I'm not sure if you are implying Freddie Gray was a multi-offense drug dealer because may have somehow been exposed to lead paint as some unnecessary secret experiment after it was mostly eradicated from the environment since the late 19070s.

Regarding the criminal justice system, I appreciate you providing the statistics. I'm sure the details of the statistics probably show a slightly different picture; I'm not sure that 85% of the criminals in our nation's prisons are black based on the number of arrests of white people - 3 to 1 in some metrics. It would seem white people then don't even get processed. I can't believe in this day and age that is the case, but I guess that is your point. I'm not going to refute your argument, nor do I have a desire to research it, because I really have no concern regarding criminals be they black or white. I see them as criminals and I really have no emotion about them. If you don't want the criminal justice system to treat you unfairly, then simply just don't be a criminal. Yeah, short-sighted answer maybe but I'm not shedding a tear over criminals. I really could care less how criminals are treated. Now, if there are innocent people being incarcerated, that is a different matter, but it’s probably a low percentage regardless of ethnicity. No system is perfect.

Now this comment I think is unfair:

That's another WOW statement! Wiping the issue clear from my mind does nothing to address the issue of racism or privilege. I can't change either. Only white people like you and Tony20009 are capable of doing that. When I bring up a simple truth, you perceive me as the angry black man and nothing is accomplished.

Everyone is responsible for ending racism, not just white people. I think what you said above is not the correct approach, which really has been my point all along. And I don’t think it’s possible for Tony and I can give up “privilege” based on the definition. But educated elites made the definition from what I can tell, and I find arguing with ignorant people and educated elites to be about the same thing.

I think there is racism, but I don’t think there is systemic racism. I’ve made my points why previously so I’ll not repeat them. I’ll also point out that in the housing industry and mortgage banking industry (my family is in both) today is far different from the early 1900’s. It wasn’t until Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (two Government mortgage institutions) got into the business did mortgage application documents have ethnicity as a data point. Prior to that, beyond the front-line mortgage processor meeting face to face with the client, the people that made the decision to make a mortgage loan had no idea the ethnicity of the applicant. Mortgage loans are based on if the numbers work out. It would be bad business practice to deny a loan if the numbers worked purely based on ethnicity. Mortgage bankers are more interested in making money than being racist. My father tried to make housing and mortgages more available to DC’s African American residents in the late 1960’s. The Washington Post and the liberal Jesuits of Georgetown University saw to it he was unsuccessful. Being the racists that they are, they were sure my father was trying to take advantage of poor black people. That my friend truly is racist; thinking that a white man trying to help African Americans has alternative motives, which gets back to my original point that Liberals are no friend of the Black people in America. You can believe all the Liberal's hype all you want, but the statistics and sad state of affairs currently witnessed these past 10 months show otherwise.

I do know one thing for sure that we have in common... we both like BMWs.

Peace.
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      07-18-2015, 09:50 AM   #59
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Are there awards on forum for long winded replies?
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      07-18-2015, 11:22 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonnyJack View Post
Whose truth? The actual events as they occurred, or a water-downed version suited to portray Americans as less murderous then we were? Remembering history is of paramount importance, yet great pains seem to be taken to show that this country's history wasn't as bad as it really was.

Texas is the latest example. They plan on changing future public school history books to state that slavery was only a secondary issue for the states which chose to secede. The articles of secession were very clear that slavery was the primary reason.

We were murderers. We exterminated Native Americans. We enslaved for centuries. We terrorized via Jim Crow and the KKK. We held lynching parties and we have pictures of such lynchings complete with smiling attendees.

The complete truth, both of today, and history, no matter how ugly should be told.

How to make things equal? I don't know. Start with an acknowledgment that there is a problem. Until that happens it is impossible to do more.
I agree and then to your point, we should accept it and move forward.

Almost everyone knows there is a problem. It's part of the human condition. Surely you know that racism and slavery wasn't born in with the United States. But what i want to know most is what should be done about it? Do you think the current programs in place are beneficial or even help to remove racism? I'd really like to know because i'd like to not be considered a racist based only on my skin color.
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      07-18-2015, 12:17 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by SonnyJack View Post
Against my better judgment I'll play along a bit longer:

1) You wrote...."Do I have one or two black friends? - I addressed that question as being a racist comment. And it was satirical none the less."

If you say so. However, if you had one or two close black friends you would probably already know about white privilege and systemic racism.

2) You wrote...."You guess that I think that sexism doesn't still exist in America. - I didn’t address that question since I can't answer whether you are guessing or not. And again, another satirical question."

This was really an easy one to answer, but I guess you felt trapped by the way I asked the question. YES, it exists.

3) Clean slate, POTUS, Ben Carson, yada, yada, yada.

For some reason you brought up slavery ending 150 years ago....."It's tiring that after 150 years since slavery was abolished in the USA (by Conservative white people), and the Voting Rights Act and the Great Society (both passed against the desires of the Democrats by white conservative Republicans), and a mixed-race man with predominantly black features elected as the “First Black President” of the United States, and men and women such as Condoleezza Rice and Ben Carson (just using recent African-Americans predominantly in the news) have risen to the status they have, let alone Clarence Thomas as Supreme Court justice, we still have the term "white privilege" in use."

The above quote is also what brought on my comment about the clean slate. You bring up a few token examples of black success and that leads you to believing that all are equal. Unfortunately, nothing could be farther from the truth. A perfect example lies in the criminal justice system. How is it that by some accounts 85% of prison population is black, while most crime in America is committed by whites?

Using 2013 FBI stats:

Total arrests = Whites 6,214,197, Blacks 2,549,655

Murder and non-negligent manslaughter = Whites 3,799, Blacks 4,379
Forcible Rape = Whites 8,946, Black 4,229
Robbery = Whites 32,945 Blacks 44,271
Aggravated assault = Whites 183,092 Blacks 98,748
Burglary = Whites 136,990 Blacks 61,709
Larceny-theft = Whites 677,173 Blacks 284,358
Violent crime2 = Whites 228,782 Blacks 151,627
Property crime2 = Whites 855,225 Blacks 363,952
Stolen property; buying, receiving = Whites 50,237 Blacks 22,687
Weapons; carrying, possessing, etc. = Whites 65,317 Blacks 44,671
Drug abuse violations = Whites 815,181 Black 365,785
Offenses against the family and children = Whites 51,017 Blacks 25,519
Disorderly conduct = Whites 231,604 Blacks 129,782

I believe the above stats to be accurate and they represent systemic racism. Blacks do not commit more crimes, but they end up doing more time. A very current example is in the local news. The white FBI agent who got hooked on painkillers and then stole heroin from the evidence vault in order to self-medicate. His actions led to the release of nearly three dozen guilty heroin dealers. He got three whole years.

You have countless black first offenders in prison for decades due to crack cocaine, not to mention the impact this has had on the black family, yet the privileged white FBI agent whose father was a retired cop, got three years. This is systemic racism.

Did you know that there is more white on white crime than there is black on black crime? Have you even heard the phrase "white on white crime?" I sure haven't. The media loves talking about black on black crime, yet they never, ever, discuss white on white crime, nor ask the white communities what they are doing to fight the issue. This is systemic racism.

Remember that Bundy guy in Arizona who has been basically stealing from the government for decades. Remember the standoff out at his ranch? That would be the standoff where white citizens pointed semi-automatic rifles at law enforcement? Remember that? Not a damned thing happened to those "protestors" and the government even backed down. Remember Ferguson, MO? Peaceful protestors faced police in full riot gear; had sniper rifles pointed at them, were gassed and arrested. This is systemic racism.

Have you heard of Greenwood? Google it if you like. The area was known in 1921 as "Black Wall Street." It was an extremely successful area in which blacks had built a thriving business, and accumulated wealth far superior to many whites in the area. Know what happened to it? White folks got angry and burned the entire city to the ground, killing many. They even used WW1 airplanes to bomb American citizens. Did you know that? Then guess what happened. They rebuilt and thrived again! In the end it was the interstate system which ended Greenwood's prosperity. The government decided to run the interstate straight through Greenwood. This was systemic racism as well.

Blacks seem to congregate in cities. Do you know why? Housing rules from as far back as the early 1900's forced blacks into segregated housing. In later years, blacks were prevented from buying homes in what we today call the suburbs. These rules forced blacks into large urban cities as the only available housing options. Fewer job opportunities, and little to no wealth accumulation has perpetuated this situation. This was/is systemic racism.

Did you know that Baltimore was a large experiment to test the effects of lead paint exposure? Poor black families were deliberately allowed to live in homes with pealing lead-based paint. Freddie Gray, yes, that Freddie Gray was a child in the study who was tested and known to have been exposed to horrendously high levels of paint. The damage caused by exposure to lead paint is irreversible. The US was the last country to outlaw lead-based paint, which has damaged so many young black children. This is systemic racism.

I could go on and on and on, but to what avail?

You said...."The world is full of injustice(s), none of which can be erased or wiped clean from the blackboard as historical fact, so either a person can wallow in sorrow that it happened to them, or they can chose to wipe the issue clean from their mind and not let it influence their thoughts and actions moving forward."

That's another WOW statement! Wiping the issue clear from my mind does nothing to address the issue of racism or privilege. I can't change either. Only white people like you and Tony20009 are capable of doing that. When I bring up a simple truth, you perceive me as the angry black man and nothing is accomplished.

For change to occur, those persons of the privileged class must be willing to speak up about the change necessary to improve society. How long does it take? I have no idea. But what I do know is that brushing it off as somehow unimportant, ensures no change will happen.

Systemic/structural racism (the terms are synonymous) does not mean it's impossible for blacks to advance, just means the path toward success is paved with more obstacles than for whites.

I have attached a pdf for you
Wow. I truly feel sorry for you. I think you've been completely manipulated by white leftist who rely on the monolithic black voting block. Without divisive identity politics, the democrat party wouldn't have a leg to stand on. As it is now, they can just call their opponents racist and you'll March off to the polls thinking you're fighting some injustice. Ever wonder why guys like Ben Carson are constantly called Uncle Tom? You don't find it discouraging when a guy like Herman Cain is vilified because some white leftist, in this case David Axelrod, leaked a story that Herman Cain gropped white women? Once you leave the white leftist plantation you'll be cut off at the knees without a second thought. You'd be called an Uncle Tom too because white leftists can't let their hold on the black community be undermined. Also, you do realize that blacks make up about 12% of the population. Do you think your crime statistics reflect that? I guess you can keep your head buried in the sand while white leftists destroy the family unit and put liquor stores and abortion clinics all over black neighborhoods. It doesn't piss you off that a bunch of Lilly white leftists in Guy Fawkes masks come into your community to incite riots and violence? The constant turmoil and constant talk of racism only cements their control. Also, no matter what you do you can't legislate out what's in someone's heart and it would be downright Orwellian to try. Some people are going to be racist and some aren't. It's just human nature.
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      07-18-2015, 12:36 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Federer View Post
Wow. I truly feel sorry for you. I think you've been completely manipulated by white leftist who rely on the monolithic black voting block. Without divisive identity politics, the democrat party wouldn't have a leg to stand on. As it is now, they can just call their opponents racist and you'll March off to the polls thinking you're fighting some injustice. Ever wonder why guys like Ben Carson are constantly called Uncle Tom? You don't find it discouraging when a guy like Herman Cain is vilified because some white leftist, in this case David Axelrod, leaked a story that Herman Cain gropped white women? Once you leave the white leftist plantation you'll be cut off at the knees without a second thought. You'd be called an Uncle Tom too because white leftists can't let their hold on the black community be undermined. Also, you do realize that blacks make up about 12% of the population. Do you think your crime statistics reflect that? I guess you can keep your head buried in the sand while white leftists destroy the family unit and put liquor stores and abortion clinics all over black neighborhoods. It doesn't piss you off that a bunch of Lilly white leftists in Guy Fawkes masks come into your community to incite riots and violence? The constant turmoil and constant talk of racism only cements their control. Also, no matter what you do you can't legislate out what's in someone's heart and it would be downright Orwellian to try. Some people are going to be racist and some aren't. It's just human nature.
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      07-18-2015, 12:49 PM   #63
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racism doesn't exist

SonnyJack I don't know what nationality or race you are but I do know you can't talk about race and "white privilege" with some people, probably best to leave it alone because it's going no where.

https://thsppl.com/i-racist-538512462265
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      07-18-2015, 03:02 PM   #64
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Quote:
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Are there awards on forum for long winded replies?
Yes, and it goes to Tony20009.
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      07-18-2015, 03:06 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
Are there awards on forum for long winded replies?
Yes, and you get bonus points if your name is Tony or Jack....
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      07-18-2015, 07:53 PM   #66
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Quote:
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Are there awards on forum for long winded replies?
You have no idea how painful it was typing out that last one. Lord help me, I promise I'll never do that again!
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