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      08-31-2009, 01:27 AM   #23

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Originally Posted by Septro View Post
The level of douchebagery is high in you today I see. Not every state taxes the 'Cash for Clunkers'. There is no federal tax on the program. You may be able to claim that state tax on your federal return (yet to be determined) and it amounts to roughly $250-280 depending on the state. (source)
Where the hell did you get that I was saying any of that?

I already said that it was up to the state on whether they would levy state taxes:

Originally Posted by Nixon View Post
The States are free to tax or not tax purchases as they wish. Those states who want to give car buyers yet another freebie on top of the freebie they already got are doing so, others aren't. It's called a State's Rights issue.

Of course the consumers don't pay any federal tax. Nobody ever said that in this thread, because I would have already smashed that bullshit down. We're talking about state taxes.

As for the ablility to claim state sales taxes on your federal return, there is no "yet to be determined" about it. It's a done deal. Obama passed that tax cut into law as part of the stimulus package. The only "may" about it is whether or not you qualify, and if your state charges sales tax on cars or not. And don't quote some stupid local paper, go straight to the fucking primary souce if you are going to get all uppity:,00.html

What is your critical failure, Mr. Douche? You have made NO correction in anything I said. Read my fucking post.

Originally Posted by Septro View Post
The beef isn't the tax it's the lack of communication about it, or the lack of any organized rigor to the process for both consumers and dealers. The lack of consistency in application (some dealers stopped the program early since they were afraid the pool would run out and they'd be stuck with the bill).

That's the ONLY beef anyone has had with C4C???

Really? You can say that with a straight face?

Because if you think that is all that has been whined about, you should do some reading. Taxes have been whined about repeatedly and widely. So have about 20 other things. You can start right here on this thread if you have missed all the bitching and whining. More in other threads right here on this very board. Even WAY more in the right-wing fact-free land of forwarded email chains.

So stop trying to minimize and pretend there hasn't been a ton of dis-information, FUD, and just plain bullshit spread about C4C. Your attempts at minimization only make you look like you don't have a clue.

Troll away, douche-breath. Come back when you've bothered to read my post, and this thread, before you post silly crap like your last post.
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      09-02-2009, 11:14 AM   #24

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survey need to be done in automobile sector.....we have to observe if there is dip in sales........................................
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      10-01-2009, 07:30 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by cagenicolas121 View Post
survey need to be done in automobile sector.....we have to observe if there is dip in sales........................................

Ya think??

Auto sales tumble after rush from ‘Clunkers’
GM posts steepest drop in September after government offer ends

updated 1 hour, 12 minutes ago

NEW YORK - U.S. auto sales fell sharply in September, enduring a tough hangover from this summer's buying spree driven by big discounts to consumers.

General Motors Co. and Chrysler Group LLC posted the biggest slowdowns during the month, while Hyundai was the sole winner among big carmakers, reporting a 27 percent rise in sales from a year earlier.

"It was a more difficult month than we anticipated," Mark LaNeve, GM's vice president of U.S. sales, told reporters during a conference call."

The September slump for car and truck makers follows a heady summer. Automakers got a big lift in July and August from the government's Cash for Clunkers program, which spurred sales of nearly 700,000 new vehicles. The program's big discounts lured in many customers who otherwise would have waited until later in the year to walk into dealerships.

Now automakers are starting to feel the effect. GM's sales plunged 45 percent to 155,679 vehicles in September, compared with a year earlier. Chrysler sold only 62,197 vehicles last month, down 42 percent.

Even higher incentives didn't shake buyers from their fall slumber. Automakers spent an average of $2,557 per vehicle in the U.S., up $83 from August, according to the auto Web site But that was due largely to big increases from domestic automakers.

"After five straight months of decline, incentives are on the rise again," Edmunds analyst Jessica Caldwell said in a statement. "Now that Cash for Clunkers is over, automakers have to give consumers an incentive to buy — out of their own pockets, not the taxpayers'."

European and Japanese manufacturers cut their spending on incentives, which include offerings like financing deals and rebates that induce consumers to buy.

Japan's Toyota Motor Corp. said sales fell 13 percent while Nissan Motor Co. said its sales fell 7 percent. Honda's sales fell 23.3 percent to 77,229.

Ford Motor Co. had the smallest decline among major manufacturers, falling 5.1 percent to 114,241, but the decline followed two straight months of rising sales.

Ford's sales fell 37.2 percent from August. Two of Ford's vehicles — the Focus and Escape — were top sellers in the clunkers program. But now, with clunkers done, sales of the those vehicles posted steep declines. The fuel-efficent Focus fell 64.1 percent between August and September. The Escape crossover declined 58.5 percent.

GM blamed its sales decline on the clunkers program pulling buyers into July and August, weak consumer confidence and low inventory levels during September before production increases could replenish stocks.

"As expected, the market returned to pre-Cash for Clunkers levels in September," said GM's LaNeve. "Fortunately the fourth quarter looks brighter."

GM's weak sales report is the second straight day of gloomy news for the automaker. On Wednesday, the company said the deal to sell its Saturn brand to race-car magnate Roger Penske fell through, spelling the end of the car unit. Last month, Saturn's sales plunged nearly 84 percent.

Ford's top analyst told reporters on Thursday he does not think the slowdown will affect sales in October and beyond.

"I think most part the payback for the program will be minimal in the coming months," George Pipas said. "I don't think we should be using any excuses. I think from now on the economy stands on its own."

Cash for Clunkers and summertime production cuts kept inventories of popular models low during the month, but even so, Chrysler predicted its market share will rise 0.8 percentage points from August levels. The company increased factory output to replenish supplies.

"While we had some bright spots in September, it was still a challenging sales environment for the industry," Peter Fong, CEO of the Chrysler brand, said in a statement.

October, however, is traditionally a slow month for sales. On top of that, shoppers are guarding their wallets, worried about holding onto their jobs. Now the question is whether dealers can really lure them back and help the industry recover for the remainder of the year.

South Korean automaker Hyundai's sales jumped on easy comparisons with a weak year-ago period and strong demand for its Elantra and Santa Fe models.

Automakers sold a combined 1.3 million vehicles in August for a seasonally adjusted sales rate, or SAAR, of 14.1 million. Many analysts expect a SAAR of 9.3 million for September.
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      10-05-2009, 04:01 PM   #26
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simple economics tells us these kinds of programs don't actually create new buyers but instead just shift the timing of purchases.

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      10-06-2009, 12:34 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by TexAg06 View Post
simple economics tells us these kinds of programs don't actually create new buyers but instead just shift the timing of purchases.

yup and as we now see the automotive sector is even more dead than before the Clunker program. except that it re-distributed a bit of wealth during the program.
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      10-06-2009, 08:06 AM   #28

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Yes - all we did was replicate the fever-pitch that lead up to the housing crisis and ran the automobile industry through it. GM is going to be in a hurt-locker to make sales the rest of the year and going into 2010. I don't think the taxpayers are going to get their bailout money back if I was a betting man.
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