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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions Genesis G70?

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      08-16-2018, 09:32 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by enigma01 View Post
It looks like most major publications in the US have their first reviews out:

- Car&Driver
- Motor Trend
- Jalopnik

I've test driven the Stinger GT, and I came out relatively impressed by it. It's not a sports car, but as a GT car, it's quite a bargain for what it offers. It's still too soft to compare against the 3/4er or A4/5 though (and my opinion of the F30 isn't very high to begin with).

All these reviews state that the G70 is lighter/smaller and exhibits less body roll, and ultimately is a better driver's car.

I am not sure if the G70 is my cup of tea, but I will be lining up to test drive it for sure.
It'll be good to hear what you think. I don't think I'll get to try one for a LONG time. I tested the SINGLE Giulia we had in my city this year. It took 4 or 5 months to sell (They weren't willing to make a deal and the sales person wasn't really trying to sell it, I'd have ordered custom but again no deals). I loved the Giulia but I think the G70 will be a similar issue to see around here.
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      03-17-2019, 08:06 PM   #24
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It'll be good to hear what you think. I don't think I'll get to try one for a LONG time. I tested the SINGLE Giulia we had in my city this year. It took 4 or 5 months to sell (They weren't willing to make a deal and the sales person wasn't really trying to sell it, I'd have ordered custom but again no deals). I loved the Giulia but I think the G70 will be a similar issue to see around here.
I have an F30 335 sport 2014. I love it. But I'm getting a 3.3 T Genesis G70. The car is loaded for 48K. A comparable F30 340i is 61k. The Genesis interior is nicer and the car is ferociously fast. Handles greats, rides great and is quiet too. Interior is much nicer than BMW. The G20 exterior doesn't do much for me nor does the interior.
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      03-17-2019, 09:12 PM   #25
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      03-18-2019, 06:52 AM   #26
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I recently looked at the Genesis G70 interior (their dealership was just next to BMW) and it felt at least one level above any of the BMW 3 series. Honestly, it felt close to 5 series quality with some minor questionable decisions on the controls layout.

Immediately after that I was inside of a brand new 330i and it felt like I was on a much cheaper interior for a higher or similar price with the top level G70 trim.

Performance wise the top level trim (3.3T engine) puts out also some impressive numbers and includes a mechanical LSD. Not to mention that the majority of the safety features are standard from the lower trim levels and some of them don't even exist on the current 3 series (maybe the next year's model may have them optional since it is BMW)

What are your thoughts?
Lol! Seems poaching the M division’s head of engineering has paid off!
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      03-18-2019, 09:19 AM   #27
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Some people realize that parts are parts, and any company that makes the decision and acquires the capability can produce comparable vehicles. As noted with one example above by BigSky702, Kia has picked up key engineering and design talent from BMW and Audi. It may take a product cycle or two to get there, but any suggestion that it never will simply ignores the practical realities of engineering and manufacturing capability in the global economy.

How the market evaluates the resale value is a totally different subject based on volume and, yes, imaginary snobbery. And, let's be honest, if our primary objective was to buy a "quality product", we'd all be in Lexus dealerships buying cars from a Kia/Hyundai competitor - Toyota.
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      03-18-2019, 10:15 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
Some people realize that parts are parts, and any company that makes the decision and acquires the capability can produce comparable vehicles. As noted above by BigSky702, Kia has picked up key engineering and design talent from BMW and Audi. It may take a product cycle or two to get there, but any suggestion that it never will simply ignores the practical realities of engineering and manufacturing capability in the global economy.
I disagree. The positioning of the brand is key here.

Leaving aside the fact that 100 years of German engineering tradition is not comparable to anything from Korea; if you're flooding the market with Rios, Sorentos and Optimas, and if your brand is associated with 'cheap to buy, cheap to run' cars, you can't charge BMW, Mercedes money from your upper class vehicles. (Which Kia don't) So you either have to cut cost, compromise to keep your margins intact, or keep the car at a niche, just as a prestige item for the brand and lose money from it which would prevent you from becoming a big player in the segment.

The bottom line is, hiring a few senior engineers from a prestigious German company doesn't bring you to their level. There's brand positioning, history, traditions.
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      03-18-2019, 10:44 AM   #29
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I disagree. The positioning of the brand is key here.

Leaving aside the fact that 100 years of German engineering tradition is not comparable to anything from Korea; if you're flooding the market with Rios, Sorentos and Optimas, and if your brand is associated with 'cheap to buy, cheap to run' cars, you can't charge BMW, Mercedes money from your upper class vehicles. (Which Kia don't) So you either have to cut cost, compromise to keep your margins intact, or keep the car at a niche, just as a prestige item for the brand and lose money from it which would prevent you from becoming a big player in the segment.

The bottom line is, hiring a few senior engineers from a prestigious German company doesn't bring you to their level. There's brand positioning, history, traditions.
I completely understand and agree about brand positioning. My point was outside of that issue, as that is purely perceptual. The discussion was the feasibility of one company being able to produce a comparable vehicle.

How the market chooses to view it is, I agree, another and more difficult challenge. However, consider how Hyundai and Kia have closed the gap to Toyota/Honda in positioning and perception. The process can happen. It is a matter of corporate willingness, commitment, and budget.

Lastly, there is a segment of the market for whom imagery and positioning don't register...they simply buy what they like, across income cohorts, somewhat iconoclastic in attitude. It would be very possible to find such buyers cross-shopping BMW and Kia if/when the products are comparable, as some suggest G70 may have achieved. Others, perhaps most, are free to be guided by their own and others' perceptions of the badge.
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      03-18-2019, 11:02 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
I completely understand and agree about brand positioning. My point was outside of that issue, as that is purely perceptual. The discussion was the feasibility of one company being able to produce a comparable vehicle.

How the market chooses to view it is, I agree, another and more difficult challenge. However, consider how Hyundai and Kia have closed the gap to Toyota/Honda in positioning and perception. The process can happen. It is a matter of corporate willingness, commitment, and budget.

Lastly, there is a segment of the market for whom imagery and positioning don't register...they simply buy what they like, across income cohorts, somewhat iconoclastic in attitude. It would be very possible to find such buyers cross-shopping BMW and Kia if/when the products are comparable, as some suggest G70 may have achieved. Others, perhaps most, are free to be guided by their own and others' perceptions of the badge.
I personally don't think Hyundai and Kia closed the gap to Toyota/Honda in the perception department. People still buy those because they're cheaper than Honda and Toyota. No one would ever pick Santa Fe Sportage whatever they make over a Highlander or Passport if the price was the same.
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      03-18-2019, 11:14 AM   #31
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I think they are almost there. Toyota is still king as far as reliability perception, but Honda has been slipping. Having that long warranty does put people at ease.
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      03-18-2019, 11:30 AM   #32
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I think they are almost there. Toyota is still king as far as reliability perception, but Honda has been slipping. Having that long warranty does put people at ease.
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Originally Posted by MT4life View Post
I personally don't think Huydai and Kia closed the gap to Toyota/Honda in the perception department. People still buy those because they're cheaper than Honda and Toyota. No one would ever pick Santa Fe Sportage whatever they make over a Highlander or Passport if the price was the same.
Yes, perhaps semantics...didn't mean to suggest the gap is gone, but that the gap has been closed to a significant degree. Point being, a company once never thought to be capable can come a long way given the intention and capability. Perceptions lag and may catch up later. Think about the different sources that have emerged from places once not taken all that seriously, depending on how far back in time we go....who remembers the scrutiny of the first Lexus or Acura Legend? Now Japan is eyeing the Koreans...the Koreans are eyeing the Chinese...the Chinese are eyeing the Indians...and now of all places Viet Nam!

https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/10/vi...-its-citizens/

The only constant is change, and preconceived notions may become quite fragile.
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      03-18-2019, 12:03 PM   #33
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I was being facetious with the “M division VP” remark. No, poaching talent is not going to turn the ship around immediately, but it doesn’t hurt in the short term either. If you like the G70, more power to you. It’s not pulling money out of my pocket.

Now I do have to admit, I am extremely impressed with how quickly Kia and Hyundai have vaulted over Infiniti! Infiniti turned out to be a real disappointment.

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      03-18-2019, 04:49 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martyl View Post
I have an F30 335 sport 2014. I love it. But I'm getting a 3.3 T Genesis G70. The car is loaded for 48K. A comparable F30 340i is 61k. The Genesis interior is nicer and the car is ferociously fast. Handles greats, rides great and is quiet too. Interior is much nicer than BMW. The G20 exterior doesn't do much for me nor does the interior.
good on you dude, theyre a sweet car. only thing youll miss is the ZF and potentially idrive
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      03-18-2019, 06:04 PM   #35
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Now I do have to admit, I am extremely impressed with how quickly Kia and Hyundai have vaulted over Infiniti! Infiniti turned out to be a real disappointment.
I agree, while it doesn't persuade me against any of the three germans, I would happily take one over an Infiniti, Acura, Lexus or Cadillac, even though its owned by Hyundai I think they are doing a good job with reinventing the brand, plus they are giving BMW (and other brands) more reasons to improve their vehicles/be more competitive.
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      03-19-2019, 12:37 PM   #36
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I personally don't think Huydai and Kia closed the gap to Toyota/Honda in the perception department. People still buy those because they're cheaper than Honda and Toyota. No one would ever pick Santa Fe Sportage whatever they make over a Highlander or Passport if the price was the same.
And Hyundai and Kia both attract sub prime buyers people that can't get approved for credit anywhere but buy-here, pay-here used car lots.
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      03-19-2019, 01:35 PM   #37
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And Hyundai and Kia both attract sub prime buyers people that can't get approved for credit anywhere but buy-here, pay-here used car lots.
It was definitely the case in the 90 and 2000's
Most of their dealers advertised, BK no problem, Divorce no problem, Foreclosure no problem.
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      03-19-2019, 06:48 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherweeeny View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyl View Post
I have an F30 335 sport 2014. I love it. But I'm getting a 3.3 T Genesis G70. The car is loaded for 48K. A comparable F30 340i is 61k. The Genesis interior is nicer and the car is ferociously fast. Handles greats, rides great and is quiet too. Interior is much nicer than BMW. The G20 exterior doesn't do much for me nor does the interior.
good on you dude, theyre a sweet car. only thing youll miss is the ZF and potentially idrive
The transmission would worry me the most. I don't think the 3.3 has a manual option, and you'd likely notice the difference coming from a ZF8 in the way it's programmed and calibrated for bmw.

I'd be happy to be wrong though.
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      03-22-2019, 11:24 AM   #39
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The transmission would worry me the most. I don't think the 3.3 has a manual option, and you'd likely notice the difference coming from a ZF8 in the way it's programmed and calibrated for bmw.

I'd be happy to be wrong though.
You're right, the 3.3T only comes with the 8 speed auto, which is generally considered to be the weakest aspect of the car.
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      03-22-2019, 12:57 PM   #40
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You're right, the 3.3T only comes with the 8 speed auto, which is generally considered to be the weakest aspect of the car.
I've never driven Hyundai's new 8 speed, but most reviews seem to indicate it's a modern transmission. Not up to par with the 8HP, but definitely no slouch, and with good automatic programming and torque converter lockup. It's not a sore point of the car, and really no other planetary automatic is as good as a ZF 8HP.
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      03-22-2019, 05:24 PM   #41
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I've never driven Hyundai's new 8 speed, but most reviews seem to indicate it's a modern transmission. Not up to par with the 8HP, but definitely no slouch, and with good automatic programming and torque converter lockup. It's not a sore point of the car, and really no other planetary automatic is as good as a ZF 8HP.
From what I've read the manual seems to be a pretty weak one, but again its a manual, so do you take a weak manual over an a good auto?
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      03-22-2019, 06:27 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmack View Post
You're right, the 3.3T only comes with the 8 speed auto, which is generally considered to be the weakest aspect of the car.
I've never driven Hyundai's new 8 speed, but most reviews seem to indicate it's a modern transmission. Not up to par with the 8HP, but definitely no slouch, and with good automatic programming and torque converter lockup. It's not a sore point of the car, and really no other planetary automatic is as good as a ZF 8HP.
That's good to hear. I mean, the g70 is a compelling case. If it's as good as the reviews to date suggest, it means genesis is closing the performance gap just as bmw is further increasing the price of the 3 series with the g20. I saw a 330i in a showroom recently that had an msrp of over 60k. Of course a bmw is going to be pricier than a Hyundai, but >60k is a bit much for a 3 series powered by a 4-pot.
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      03-22-2019, 07:12 PM   #43
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The car is pricier, but after 5 years the Hyundia will be worth about $5k where as the BMW at least in the mid $35K.

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That's good to hear. I mean, the g70 is a compelling case. If it's as good as the reviews to date suggest, it means genesis is closing the performance gap just as bmw is further increasing the price of the 3 series with the g20. I saw a 330i in a showroom recently that had an msrp of over 60k. Of course a bmw is going to be pricier than a Hyundai, but >60k is a bit much for a 3 series powered by a 4-pot.
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      03-22-2019, 07:12 PM   #44
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I drove the G70 with the manual (RWD only) and also the 8 speed auto (both 4 cylinder). I really wanted to like the manual but it had long throwsa and was a bit notchy. The performance on the auto 4 cyl was just "meh".
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