[seis-speed]

Originally Posted by lemetier

Theoretically, electro-hydraulic. Allows for either a basic anti-stall clutch override or full clutch-by-wire. The first retains a hydraulic link from the pedal to the clutch master slave, second does away with that link and substitutes a fully digital connection between the pedal and slave. Both allow flexibility with suppliers, the latter slightly broader.

Difference compared to F8x would be wholly dependent on which one is implemented.

Have you driven the manual G80 car?

Would it be obvious on a test drive? Are manual fans going to notice the difference in technology on the clutch pedal?

[JTO24]

I just rewatched the video.. maybe overspeed protection? Some of those downshifts to 2nd sounded a little aggressive.

[BMWGirlFL]

Why does it sometimes flash N between gear changes?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by lemetier

We can keep it theoretical.

- AEB

- Anti-Stall required for AEB in conjunction with MT

- A type of eClutch is necessary for Anti-Stall

G8x is available with a MT and has AEB as standard.

Ok, so, no clutch by wire, but the clutch can be activated electronically?

That could theoretically open up a number of interesting features, including shifting without the clutch pedal. If true, the car could be driven like an automated manual with an H gate in place of paddles/click-stick.

Originally Posted by BMWGirlFL

Why does it sometimes flash N between gear changes?

Good catch. Maybe the ECU automatically closes the clutch if the transmission is out of gear for a specified period of time?

[xlover]

Originally Posted by BMWGirlFL

Why does it sometimes flash N between gear changes?

I think that is just the sensor that tells the car (and driver) what gear it is in. By definition to get between gates the lever has to pass through neutral. Depending on the shift speed and refresh rate it occasionally notes it as the driver passes through.

Other manual cars that can track and show electronically what gear the transmission is in do this also, especially when shifted slowly

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by xlover

Other manual cars that can track and show electronically what gear the transmission is in do this also, especially when shifted slowly

Ah - I wasn't aware of that. I admit, I haven't owned a vehicle with a manual transmission in over decade. I just figured it wouldn't register as being in specific gear, including neutral, until you let the clutch out. Thinking on it, I suppose that'd be less intuitive than simply telling you what position the stick is actually in (even if you never ultimately let the clutch out in that position).

[BMWGirlFL]

Originally Posted by xlover

I think that is just the sensor that tells the car (and driver) what gear it is in. By definition to get between gates the lever has to pass through neutral. Depending on the shift speed and refresh rate it occasionally notes it as the driver passes through.

Other manual cars that can track and show electronically what gear the transmission is in do this also, especially when shifted slowly

Guessing related to something like intelligent double [de]clutching. In over my head here but having fun ...

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by BMWGirlFL

Guessing related to something like intelligent double [de]clutching. In over my head here but having fun ...

I thought about that for moment too, but why double clutch on an upshift? For that matter, double clutching downshifts isn't necessary either. I think xlover's explanation is correct - it's simply the result of pausing long enough in the neutral position when moving the stick between gears.

At any rate, if this car does have an electronically actuate-able clutch, that's pretty big news.

[BMWGirlFL]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I thought about that for moment too, but why double clutch on an upshift? For that matter, double clutching downshifts isn't necessary either.

In over my head may be something of an understatement.

[solstice]

In relation to the thread subject, with this amount of highly unexpected new electronic automation features to something as manual as the MT I would no longer be one bit surprised if the 48V full MHEV treatment show up later on in the G8X life cycle. This will not be a dull and stale 7 years...

[solstice]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I thought about that for moment too, but why double clutch on an upshift? For that matter, double clutching downshifts isn't necessary either. I think xlover's explanation is correct - it's simply the result of pausing long enough in the neutral position when moving the stick between gears.

At any rate, if this car does have an electronically actuate-able clutch, that's pretty big news.

I doubt it, this driver know what he is doing, he never lingers between the gates. Shifts are quick and smooth as they should be on the track. Either the shift sensors and indicator computer is way, way quicker than the F8X or it’s something like an actuator or guard involved here sending the signals to the indicator.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by solstice

In relation to the thread subject, with this amount of highly unexpected new electronic automation features to something as manual as the MT I would no longer be one bit surprised if the 48V full MHEV treatment show up later on in the G8X life cycle. This will not be a dull and stale 7 years...

Certainly possible.

Keep a look out for S68 info. That's the S63 successor coming "soon" (some suggest F90 M5 CS, but I suspect it will wait until the G60-generation M5), and it's going to feature some type of electric assistance. Whether that's MHEV or PHEV hasn't yet become public.

At any rate, I'd expect that the S58 will probably follow a similar path. It seems to me that the next generation of V8 powered M vehicles (those powered by the S68) would be likely to go directly to plug-in hybrid tech. I say that simply looking at the trajectory other high performance vehicles across the industry seem to be on over the next decade. If so, will there be a 48V mild hybrid stop in between? Maybe yes, but it also might not be necessary. Hard to say.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Ah - I wasn't aware of that. I admit, I haven't owned a vehicle with a manual transmission in over decade. I just figured it wouldn't register as being in specific gear, including neutral, until you let the clutch out. Thinking on it, I suppose that'd be less intuitive than simply telling you what position the stick is actually in (even if you never ultimately let the clutch out in that position).

I think you'll enjoy this...

F8x does NOT have a neutral position sensor. It has a gear position sensor based on a Time from (Gear) - Time To (Gear) logic. Neutral is determined, and then displayed, if the second sequence is not fulfilled within the preset interval. The sampling rate is 100ms (1sec) with a normal calibration tolerance of 50% (0.5 sec). From that, it's possible to calculate the minimum time required to achieve a display of N during a complete gear change (>=3 seconds TF - TT).

Now watch the video of the G82 again and compare deliberate slow shifts to fast shifts, with emphasis on 2-3, 3-4, 4-5.

[super51fan]

Originally Posted by lemetier

Now if the S58 was based off the B57, instead of; oh wait it is.

Is there anywhere I can read up more on this?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by solstice

I doubt it, this driver know what he is doing, he never lingers between the gates. Shifts are quick and smooth as they should be on the track.

He's definitely a competent driver, yes, no doubt. But the car doesn't display neutral between every shift, so he's obviously not shifting at the same speed each time. This isn't too surprising. I don't know who this driver is, but depending on what one is trying to accomplish, one would not necessarily drive the car to its (or their) maximum potential every second behind the wheel.

Originally Posted by lemetier

I think you'll enjoy this...

F8x does NOT have a neutral position sensor. It has a gear position sensor based on a Time from (Gear) - Time To (Gear) logic. Neutral is determined, and then displayed, if the second sequence is not fulfilled within the preset interval. The sampling rate is 100ms (1sec) with a normal calibration tolerance of 50% (0.5 sec). From that, it's possible to calculate the minimum time required to achieve a display of N during a complete gear change (>=3 seconds TF - TT).

Now watch the video of the G82 again and compare deliberate slow shifts to fast shifts, with emphasis on 2-3, 3-4, 4-5.

That's interesting. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar enough with how this has been implemented in the past to know how big a change that is nor to understand why it's better. But it sounds like (as one would naturally assume) that in the previous implementation, there was simply a touch sensor (or microswitch) that signaled the shifter had entered the neutral part of the gate, and then some time after that was tripped it would register "N". I suppose there are other features (AEB) that indirectly led to this change?

[xlover]

Originally Posted by lemetier

I think you'll enjoy this...

F8x does NOT have a neutral position sensor. It has a gear position sensor based on a Time from (Gear) - Time To (Gear) logic. Neutral is determined, and then displayed, if the second sequence is not fulfilled within the preset interval. The sampling rate is 100ms (1sec) with a normal calibration tolerance of 50% (0.5 sec). From that, it's possible to calculate the minimum time required to achieve a display of N during a complete gear change (>=3 seconds TF - TT).

Now watch the video of the G82 again and compare deliberate slow shifts to fast shifts, with emphasis on 2-3, 3-4, 4-5.

That's an engineers way of saying he is shifting too slow......

[brad850csi]

Originally Posted by lemetier

48v is required for electric supercharger(s). That would require the S58 to be capable of tri or quad FI components and that's unique to the B57 diesel. Now if the S58 was based off the B57, instead of; oh wait it is.

I feel like this is throwing something out there. The S58 in the X3/4M has been discussed as being quite laggy at times. I think it reminds me of driving a 4G63T in an Evo but 50% bigger which I don't think is a bad thing at all but I wonder if this is the way BMW will get around this.

I was surprised that the S58 had lower compression and bigger turbos with no other way to mitigate lag.

On the other had, the early S55 M3/4 cars were generally regarded as quite spikey when boost came in - I definitely found this when I took one for a drive through some typical narrow NZ rural roads. So perhaps the extra lag isn't completely a bad thing if the boost comes in more progressively over a longer period of time.

I'm starting to think if I can get ventilated seats and a 6MT that I might be keen to replace the M6 which would be a big thing for me! Or, fuck any sensibility at all and go for an 812

[brad850csi]

Originally Posted by super51fan

Is there anywhere I can read up more on this?

I don't think there is much specific information out there but BMW did speak a bit about the 3/4/6 cylinder family all being related and the bore/stoke is 84mm and 90mm on them all.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by lemetier

I think you'll enjoy this...

F8x does NOT have a neutral position sensor. It has a gear position sensor based on a Time from (Gear) - Time To (Gear) logic. Neutral is determined, and then displayed, if the second sequence is not fulfilled within the preset interval. The sampling rate is 100ms (1sec) with a normal calibration tolerance of 50% (0.5 sec). From that, it's possible to calculate the minimum time required to achieve a display of N during a complete gear change (>=3 seconds TF - TT).

Now watch the video of the G82 again and compare deliberate slow shifts to fast shifts, with emphasis on 2-3, 3-4, 4-5.

Damn who are you!? BMW’s Jarvis? The range and depth of knowledge is astonishing. Can’t thank you enough for being here

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by brad850csi

I don't think there is much specific information out there but BMW did speak a bit about the 3/4/6 cylinder family all being related and the bore/stoke is 84mm and 90mm on them all.

B58: 82x94.6
S58: 84x90
B57: 84x90

There's a few other members of the family out there concealed behind disclosure agreements.

But which would you prefer, 480ps 6MT or 600ps 8PR?

[BMWGirlFL]

Originally Posted by brad850csi

I'm starting to think if I can get ventilated seats and a 6MT that I might be keen to replace the M6 which would be a big thing for me! Or fuck any sensibility at all and go for an 812

812 ÷ G8x ≈ 5

[xlover]

Originally Posted by lemetier

B58: 82x94.6
S58: 84x90
B57: 84x90

So is the S58 based more on the diesel b57 than gasoline B58? I saw you reference that above around the electric turbo concept... and following your posts I doubt that was an accidental typo....