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View Poll Results: Which version of the G8X M3/M4 are you buying?
M3/M4 RWD 6MT 58 23.20%
M3/M4 Competition RWD ZF8 41 16.40%
M3/M4 Competition AWD ZF8 113 45.20%
Have not decided / not interested 38 15.20%
Voters: 250. You may not vote on this poll

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      09-20-2020, 10:15 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
I predicted this from 6 miles away... most will want the fastest, most hardcore model irrelevant of enthusiast feelings... Bmw shot themselves in the foot w the split... and I am willing to bet this is why the Awd model comes out later.
It is the inevitable consequence of exploiting "Motorsport" branding to increase sales....

We have people buying cars with ceramic brakes and complaining they squeal on the freeway and around town.

We have people buying an "automated-manual" gearbox and complaining it's not very smooth in stop & go traffic.

We have people complaining that the car doesn't accelerate quickly enough when you floor the throttle at a stop light.

My proposed solution: make a luxurious 350i xDrive that is $20K more expensive - and has a really good 0-60 time.
Then sell a 'stripped down version' as the M3 that is 20s/lap faster round a track if you learn how to drive it well.
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      09-20-2020, 10:29 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbar View Post
It is the inevitable consequence of exploiting "Motorsport" branding to increase sales....

We have people buying cars with ceramic brakes and complaining they squeal on the freeway and around town.

We have people buying an "automated-manual" gearbox and complaining it's not very smooth in stop & go traffic.

We have people complaining that the car doesn't accelerate quickly enough when you floor the throttle at a stop light.

My proposed solution: make a luxurious 350i xDrive that is $20K more expensive - and has a really good 0-60 time.
Then sell a 'stripped down version' as the M3 that is 20s/lap faster round a track if you learn how to drive it well.
Your proposed solution from a theoretical standpoint makes perfect sense however from a marketing / branding and competition sense is a non starter.

I don't even know which one I would choose in the end... definitely rwd if it proves to have better traction than the F80 and rides on a proper rear end that hooks. If however; the Awd model is "slightly" heavier and has a selectable system akin to the M5... well that is hard to pass and I think many will see it that way as well.
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      09-21-2020, 08:23 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbar View Post
It is the inevitable consequence of exploiting "Motorsport" branding to increase sales....

We have people buying cars with ceramic brakes and complaining they squeal on the freeway and around town.

We have people buying an "automated-manual" gearbox and complaining it's not very smooth in stop & go traffic.

We have people complaining that the car doesn't accelerate quickly enough when you floor the throttle at a stop light.

My proposed solution: make a luxurious 350i xDrive that is $20K more expensive - and has a really good 0-60 time.
Then sell a 'stripped down version' as the M3 that is 20s/lap faster round a track if you learn how to drive it well.
exactly
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      09-21-2020, 09:12 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbar View Post
It is the inevitable consequence of exploiting "Motorsport" branding to increase sales....

We have people buying cars with ceramic brakes and complaining they squeal on the freeway and around town.

We have people buying an "automated-manual" gearbox and complaining it's not very smooth in stop & go traffic.

We have people complaining that the car doesn't accelerate quickly enough when you floor the throttle at a stop light.

My proposed solution: make a luxurious 350i xDrive that is $20K more expensive - and has a really good 0-60 time.
Then sell a 'stripped down version' as the M3 that is 20s/lap faster round a track if you learn how to drive it well.
You are 100% right with your observation, but as you can see from this poll, a very very small number of people would buy that stripped down M3. This would make it hard to justify to develop it at all for BMW.

On top of that, BMW doesn't care about "Motorsport" or heritage, unless it helps to boost sales. In the end, as every other company, they want to make $$$, so they are developing what they can sell = what the majority of the people want. And the poll clearly says it's AWD and an automatic transmission. (But I'm surprised 18% are going for a manual, F82 had >90% takerate for the DCT).
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      09-21-2020, 09:48 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamingi View Post
You are 100% right with your observation, but as you can see from this poll, a very very small number of people would buy that stripped down M3. This would make it hard to justify to develop it at all for BMW.

On top of that, BMW doesn't care about "Motorsport" or heritage, unless it helps to boost sales. In the end, as every other company, they want to make $$$, so they are developing what they can sell = what the majority of the people want. And the poll clearly says it's AWD and an automatic transmission. (But I'm surprised 18% are going for a manual, F82 had >90% takerate for the DCT).
Regarding your last statement in red, I wouldn't be too surprised that we see a high percentage on this forum saying they'd go for a manual because this is an enthusiast forum. In the real world the manual takerate will be lower in my opinion. But I'm sure many will buy it in manual as everybody feels this may be the last manual M3/M4 ever.

On the other hand I'm somewhat surprised that the Competition ZF8 is much more popular in AWD than RWD on this forum. But then I'm interested in the AWD version and I've never owned an AWD car myself. I've always been a RWD car guy but I'm tempted to own a BMW that can launch fast at a light without wheel spin
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      09-21-2020, 10:48 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-SP0RT View Post
Regarding your last statement in red, I wouldn't be too surprised that we see a high percentage on this forum saying they'd go for a manual because this is an enthusiast forum. In the real world the manual takerate will be lower in my opinion. But I'm sure many will buy it in manual as everybody feels this may be the last manual M3/M4 ever.

On the other hand I'm somewhat surprised that the Competition ZF8 is much more popular in AWD than RWD on this forum. But then I'm interested in the AWD version and I've never owned an AWD car myself. I've always been a RWD car guy but I'm tempted to own a BMW that can launch fast at a light without wheel spin
It is also worth remembering this forum is US market centric (tho we welcome all geos!) and US market manual take rate was significantly higher than ROW.

Also as I have noted on many polls, these aren't even close to being real, scientific, or even directionally accurate of what the overall site feels (forget the general market). They are for fun and as such are only clicked on by those who feel like going out of their way to be heard and happened to stumble across while it was at the top of the thread list....
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      09-21-2020, 11:07 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamingi View Post
You are 100% right with your observation, but as you can see from this poll, a very very small number of people would buy that stripped down M3. This would make it hard to justify to develop it at all for BMW.

On top of that, BMW doesn't care about "Motorsport" or heritage, unless it helps to boost sales. In the end, as every other company, they want to make $$$, so they are developing what they can sell = what the majority of the people want. And the poll clearly says it's AWD and an automatic transmission. (But I'm surprised 18% are going for a manual, F82 had >90% takerate for the DCT).
The dilemma is MT or Auto. If they offered a DCT I'm sure some of those that choose MT would take a DCT. The DCT would be my preferred tranny to all of them but not offered
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      09-21-2020, 11:10 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
I predicted this from 6 miles away... most will want the fastest, most hardcore model irrelevant of enthusiast feelings... Bmw shot themselves in the foot w the split... and I am willing to bet this is why the Awd model comes out later.
While this is usually true when the fastest model is priced reasonably, i.e not 911 pricing were most aim for fast enough instead of the Turbo S or GT 2 RS.

That said I’m surprised that so many on this forum are ready to abandon RWD. There’s been so much venom against AWD in the past on these forums.

Personally I never had an AWD BMW among the 10+ I’ve owned. I’m looking forward to exploring its capabilities, especially the launch out of corners and additions to average speed. The different feel and learning how to get the best out it, all very exciting to me. Can’t wait!
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      09-21-2020, 11:15 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poweredbym View Post
Poll results are disappointing. If this is the trend, looks like very soon they will eliminate RWD and Manual due to low sales.
The results don't seem bad to me at all. For the F80 (and only the F80 - we don't have F82/F83 numbers unfortunately), the MT take rate in the US was about 28%. If we remove the fourth poll choice (and to the extent that polls like this one are meaningful), the expected take rate for the G8x is still close to 20%. And that's despite the fact that you cannot get the MT with the Competition Package like you could last generation.

BMW knew what they were getting into when they decided to offer an MT for the G8x, so I think it'll be sustainable as long as the take rate percentage stays in the double digit range (in the US - I expect ROW figures to be very low). Beyond the G8x generation, well, it has been a foregone conclusion for some time now that this would be the final generation to drive home in a new BMW with a manual transmission. So get them while you can.
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      09-21-2020, 11:43 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
The results don't seem bad to me at all. For the F80 (and only the F80 - we don't have F82/F83 numbers unfortunately), the MT take rate in the US was about 28%. If we remove the fourth poll choice (and to the extent that polls like this one are meaningful), the expected take rate for the G8x is still close to 20%. And that's despite the fact that you cannot get the MT with the Competition Package like you could last generation.

BMW knew what they were getting into when they decided to offer an MT for the G8x, so I think it'll be sustainable as long as the take rate percentage stays in the double digit range (in the US - I expect ROW figures to be very low). Beyond the G8x generation, well, it has been a foregone conclusion for some time now that this would be the final generation to drive home in a new BMW with a manual transmission. So get them while you can.
That's true. I guess I was just hoping to see the MT take rate be more than F8x. But that's wishful thinking.

F87 MT take rate was about 50% in US IIRC, seems that's where all the purists went.
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      09-21-2020, 11:45 AM   #33
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Guys... even if you put in everyone from the 3 other options into a so called RWD camp... the AWD numbers are still higher... this is mind blowing to me albeit entirely predictable... oh and remember this is an "enthusiast forum" not the mainstream which will care about everyday drivability even more... future looks bleak for the RWD model. I am under the impression they are releasing the RWD model to milk sales as much as possible early on before the AWD model shows up.
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      09-21-2020, 11:54 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
future looks bleak for the RWD model.
Yes, just like the manual transmission, the RWD high performance BMW was also already expected to be gone after this generation. This is where things have been trending for some time. These are the twilight years, and BMW already knows that. They have been expecting modest sales of the RWD/MT model, and they have planned for this from the very start.
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      09-21-2020, 11:57 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Guys... even if you put in everyone from the 3 other options into a so called RWD camp... the AWD numbers are still higher... this is mind blowing to me albeit entirely predictable... oh and remember this is an "enthusiast forum" not the mainstream which will care about everyday drivability even more... future looks bleak for the RWD model. I am under the impression they are releasing the RWD model to milk sales as much as possible early on before the AWD model shows up.
This seems alarmist in regards to the G8X. I’m confident there will be RWD for its full life cycle.
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      09-21-2020, 02:58 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSM View Post
The dilemma is MT or Auto. If they offered a DCT I'm sure some of those that choose MT would take a DCT. The DCT would be my preferred tranny to all of them but not offered
I would definitely take an RWD DCT.

I don't want the dead steering and extra weight of front driveshafts, CV joints etc. And I don't need AWD to avoid spinning the rear wheels. That's what my right foot is for (and slightly better tires than OEM*).




* 295/30/r20 PS4s on the rear of an F82 are just great if your foot isn't made of lead

Last edited by pbar; 09-21-2020 at 11:51 PM..
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      09-21-2020, 10:50 PM   #37
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Rwd manual

My first choice would've been awd manual because northeast snow but i think the ZF will be hard to make snappy like a DCT , Porsche and AMG still don't have torque converters for a reason.
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      09-21-2020, 11:14 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbar View Post
It is the inevitable consequence of exploiting "Motorsport" branding to increase sales....

We have people buying cars with ceramic brakes and complaining they squeal on the freeway and around town.

We have people buying an "automated-manual" gearbox and complaining it's not very smooth in stop & go traffic.

We have people complaining that the car doesn't accelerate quickly enough when you floor the throttle at a stop light.

My proposed solution: make a luxurious 350i xDrive that is $20K more expensive - and has a really good 0-60 time.
Then sell a 'stripped down version' as the M3 that is 20s/lap faster round a track if you learn how to drive it well.
Exactly what Porsche did with GT3 and Turbo, except turbo models are devastatingly fast and just as good a driver's car with all the traction nannies off if not more challenging.
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      09-21-2020, 11:24 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Exactly what Porsche did with GT3 and Turbo, except turbo models are devastatingly fast and just as good a driver's car with all the traction nannies off if not more challenging.
The important thing IMHO is that the driving enthusiast's version shouldn't be the most expensive model. And doesn't need to be the model that wins at 'Top Trumps'.

If BMW plays this right, it could even be subsidized by the people who will gravitate to buying a 'fully loaded' executive-mobile with the fastest 0-60 time and the biggest engine capacity.

I know this is totally unrealistic given the business/marketing people who make these decisions, but I like to dream.
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      09-22-2020, 02:53 PM   #40
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RWD/6MT is the choice here...would also have favored AWD/6MT were it available, and might have given AWD/DCT a test drive.
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      09-22-2020, 03:04 PM   #41
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RWD/6MT is the choice here...would also have favored AWD/6MT were it available, and might have given AWD/DCT a test drive.
When none of my close ten relatives (who are more than financially capable to buy these cars) likes the car, you know they screwed big time. Even a long time enthusiast such as I, am barely able to cope with a black RWD&MT offering with subzero interest on other variants.

DCT would have spiced up the other variants(RWD DCT, AWD DCT) and made the purchase decision much easier but they decided to put the generic ZF8 used in Audis.
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      09-22-2020, 03:44 PM   #42
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Is there no base RWD option with AT?

I don't need a competition model. More accurately, I am part of the 99.9% of the population that cannot push the limits of a base M3, let alone a competition model. But that doesn't mean that I don't enjoy driving. Right now, I would take the base RWD model with MT. I just wonder if the MT will annoy me a year from now when the novelty has worn off and I'm stuck in traffic. I drove a MT for 10+ years when I was younger. But now I'm older and lazier.
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      09-22-2020, 10:03 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
Not too long ago, BMW esp M and enthusiasts boasted of cars' better steering feel due to RWD; now degenerated to speed with AWD and an Audi steering

and btw, what's so difficult with RWD handling 500 hp and torque that's lower than F10 M5's
I predicted this from 6 miles away... most will want the fastest, most hardcore model irrelevant of enthusiast feelings... Bmw shot themselves in the foot w the split... and I am willing to bet this is why the Awd model comes out later.
I can see the 8AT RWD drive competition model being cancelled after the AWD is available and the RWD take rate plummets. BMW AG probably ordered X amount of RWD from ZF for a competitive price. After the contract is up and/or the quota is meet — see ya latter 8AT RWD. Makes the supply chain to complex offering all these different variants once AWD is available. BMW AG is in cost cutting mode, as 3 transmissions just adds additional manufacturing costs. It's not like this is the base G20 that sells a lot of volume to justify the complexity.
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      09-23-2020, 08:10 AM   #44
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Very interesting that the poll numbers have changed yet again... I would expect the 6MT take rates to plummet even further knowing that the car is missing the 80 LB FT the Auto is. That's a serious sacrifice all things considered, how many will stay true to MT?
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