[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

If G20 m340i has the exact feel of 540i with a little less weight and and size, it would be my favorite car ever, as I love 540i xdrive Msport that I have right now even more than my previous M Cars. It's so silky smooth and efortless and balanced... It also has a great road feel: never too harsh but never floaty like Benz. And even the engine sound is great both tonally and in terms of loudness. Damping, engine, balance are all right where they should be for me. It feels like I would love to buy all of my cars from whoever tuned this car. That's why this G20 MSport could be perfection.

I really enjoy my G30 5-Series for all the reasons you stated. I don't see myself going back to a 3-Series though.

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by clee1982

you can still use electric steering with more feel (see Porsche), BMW just decide to tune it out more, guess it says how much the general BMW driver is NOT an enthusiast...

According to Chris Harris, M4 has much better steering than E92 M3. Is he not an enthusiast? Who decides who is an ethusiast?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

A lot of people on this forum look down on 320i owners and with all the customary name calling/stereotyping,but these same members would cringe to know that elsewhere are even cheaper diesel versions available and along side lower gasoline trims (316, 318 come to mind)...

And a 3-cylinder, 1.5-litre gasoline engine... in a 3-series.

[clee1982]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

According to Chris Harris, M4 has much better steering than E92 M3. Is he not an enthusiast? Who decides who is an ethusiast?

not a name calling exercise, I guess in general most driver are NOT enthusiast (almost regardless brand, just looking at how many SUV are sold across every brand)

Alfa Romeo and Jaguar both have more steering "feel" without going to Porsche price level, but I can definitely see my wife complain about Porsche being too firm, while my 540 (Non mSport) on standard suspension just go over pot hole as flat as I think it's possible...

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by clee1982

not a name calling exercise, I guess in general most driver are NOT enthusiast (almost regardless brand, just looking at how many SUV are sold across every brand)

Alfa Romeo and Jaguar both have more steering "feel" without going to Porsche price level, but I can definitely see my wife complain about Porsche being too firm, while my 540 (Non mSport) on standard suspension just go over pot hole as flat as I think it's possible...

The suspension tuning on the standard G30
Is excellent a far cry from the E90 standard suspension which had excellent handling but you pretty much felt every imperfection in the road.

[DML]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

It is not just the future, but what users want and are buying into right now. Parking assist, reversing assist (or whatever it's called), and other driving aids like lane warning/correction, coasting/sail mode, predictive gearbox management, etc., all require EPS and AT as part of their function.

Why wouldn't BMW drivers want this stuff?

Sure, bring it on! I can see it now, "The Ultimate Non Driver" kinda catchy!!

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

Your stereotyping knows no bounds.

I know I can go overboard.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

According to Chris Harris, M4 has much better steering than E92 M3. Is he not an enthusiast? Who decides who is an ethusiast?

Hmm I'm curious now, do you have a link or at least a name for the video I could look up?

In the M2 vs. 1M video comparison he made it pretty clear that the M2 is a fantastic car but the steering is not nearly as tactile as the 1Ms. I would suspect he'd have the same feelings about the F82 vs. E92.

[clee1982]

Driving might eventually become a hobby thing I don't mind self driving, it would be awesome if I can use my own vehicle, sleep on the car over night then next morning I'm in Quebec...

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Hmm I'm curious now, do you have a link or at least a name for the video I could look up?

In the M2 vs. 1M video comparison he made it pretty clear that the M2 is a fantastic car but the steering is not nearly as tactile as the 1Ms. I would suspect he'd have the same feelings about the F82 vs. E92.

Here's Chris Harris' M3 F80 review.
I can't watch and pinpoint where in the video he said that. But from what I remember, he says he likes this steering better than the old one, because the old one was to quick in the center or something...

Also, just yesterday I've seen 'What Car' review of G20. The reviewer said the steering is best in class.

[KTN]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I was hoping the G20 would return to being the de facto drivers' car in this class but it looks like BMW has gone after the mass market of badge snobs and forgotten about us enthusiasts. I'm sure this new car is tolerable unlike the F30 but I won't know until I drive it myself. Who knows I may be pleasantly surprised?

Oh this comment is so beautiful it warms my heart.

"I won't know until I drive it myself" is such an ironic statement among all the others in this very same one and the multiple others I've seen you post before it.

You won't know until you drive it yourself so until then you'll keep saying it's sh1t sight-unseen regardless.

Going down the road, no matter what you say, I can just see F30 owners as well (but really feel free to substitute any model in there including G30, G20, whatever) will go on about how THEIR car was the top, it's just all the way down from there, it's a wonder how the automotive industry survives without selling those same old cars forever.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by KTN

Oh this comment is so beautiful it warms my heart.

"I won't know until I drive it myself" is such an ironic statement among all the others in this very same one and the multiple others I've seen you post before it.

You won't know until you drive it yourself so until then you'll keep saying it's sh1t sight-unseen regardless.

Comments from journalists about the steering being "lifeless" were nonexistent in BMWs of the past. With the abomination that was the F30 its natural to remain skeptical of the new model. I don't think I've said anything unreasonable.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

Also, just yesterday I've seen 'What Car' review of G20. The reviewer said the steering is best in class.

European reviewers have always been more forgiving of BMWs mediocrity during the 2010s decade so I don't trust them as much. As much as Car & Driver's constant whining bothers me, I do trust their judgment more and will wait to hear their verdict (and of course my own verdict when I eventually drive it).

C&D's initial review doesn't mean anything as initial reviews are always positive. The truth will slowly unfold.

[KTN]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Comments from journalists about the steering being "lifeless" were nonexistent in BMWs of the past. With the abomination that was the F30 its natural to remain skeptical of the new model. I don't think I've said anything unreasonable.

Exactly, it's natural and not unwise if you remain skeptical. But saying things you think are likely or that you want to be true as if they were facts is not being skeptical, it's something else.

How do you know the reviewer who said that about the steering was "existing" when BMWs of the past were being reviewed? (I mean they might have, I haven't done research tbh )

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

European reviewers have always been more forgiving of BMWs mediocrity during the 2010s decade so I don't trust them as much. As much as Car & Driver's constant whining bothers me, I do trust their judgment more and will wait to hear their verdict (and of course my own verdict when I eventually drive it).

C&D's initial review doesn't mean anything as initial reviews are always positive. The truth will slowly unfold.

So you haven't even seen or driven the car but it must be crap because the suspect European press says otherwise.

[SDRX]

Your choice of headlights and alloys on this car could make or break it.

BMW have taken the step of making "standard" headlights look dreadful but with all marketing pictures they have laser headlights.

The 3 is a great looking car, and thank Munich for not using front grills the size of Wales!

[praxis218]

Originally Posted by SDRX

Your choice of headlights and alloys on this car could make or break it.

BMW have taken the step of making "standard" headlights look dreadful but with all marketing pictures they have laser headlights.

The 3 is a great looking car, and thank Munich for not using front grills the size of Wales!

At least it's not one of those E90 specials with 16" rims and halogen headlights.

[10"]

"The steering is still squishy and lifeless"

I've read enough....still a 0/10.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by praxis218

At least it's not one of those E90 specials with 16" rims and halogen headlights.

Mine had halogens but had 17" wheels. Last production year E90s (2011) came with 17" wheels and Dakota leather as standard for the US market.

[KTN]

Originally Posted by 10"

"The steering is still squishy and lifeless"

I've read enough....still a 0/10.

So I guess if it read "steering eclipsing that of 1M" instead, you'd be just as much on the hype-wagon as you're on the oh-so-chic and OG hate-wagon now?

Or would that then be disregarded with the "meh, inital review bias I bet it's not true and it still sucks, the [insert car you currently own] is way better anyway and will always be".

I guess everything's true, credible and accurate no matter what, as long as it suits your truth.
This is still just a single written review, and you haven't driven the car, yet you take it like it's the ultimate of truths, just so you can say what you said, again, without much more basis to it, again.

[ADEe92]

On the discrepancies between reviews I'd say that the US reviewers are reviewing models with adaptive steering (hence being able to switch between comfort and sport), while the review here is for a bottom spec RHD 320D in the UK. Even though it's an m-sport, presumably it has no adaptive steering and as such is always set to "comfort" seeing as they are the default company car for a lot of people in the UK. US spec models have always been different to the European models, since the 70s. Felt sorry for you all during the "diving board" era of bumpers put on the cars during the late 70s and early 80s!

As an e92 320d owner, I have to point out that actually they're pretty good for the daily commute. The 380nm of torque is only 20nm down on the 335i, and peak torque is between 1750 rpm and 4000 - ie. right where you're driving most of the time. On the highway overtaking is effortless. They're a great compromise really, with excellent fuel economy. Much better than the old naturally aspirated 320i.

If I want more fun I just drive my swapped 3.5L e30

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by ADEe92

On the discrepancies between reviews I'd say that the US reviewers are reviewing models with adaptive steering (hence being able to switch between comfort and sport), while the review here is for a bottom spec RHD 320D in the UK. Even though it's an m-sport, presumably it has no adaptive steering and as such is always set to "comfort" seeing as they are the default company car for a lot of people in the UK. US spec models have always been different to the European models, since the 70s. Felt sorry for you all during the "diving board" era of bumpers put on the cars during the late 70s and early 80s!

I didn't even think about that, thats a good point, it definitely would explain why in C/D's review of the 330i they made sure to emphasize that steering was good in sport mode rather than just in general or any mode. I'm just hoping that C/D is right, although I worry about the M340i as the engine being bigger that leaves less room for the new steering system and cause it to resort to the F30 system, but again, I'll wait till I drive it and see some new reviews.