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      10-09-2014, 02:30 PM   #23
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You want 300 ft lbs of low rpm torque, close to 3000 lbs, and naturally aspirated?
Don't we all.

That description is what the M2 SHOULD be, but wont. The E9X M has the torque, but not the diet. The cayman S is the perfect package, really.

Realistically, if you don't want to rev a car out to get thrust, a turbo is the best thing. Period. Boost is your friend, and BMW makes some great turbo cars.

I think you would be really happy with an M235i if you did a "blind" driving test.
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      10-09-2014, 05:24 PM   #24
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      10-10-2014, 12:45 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
What about the "best car" BMW makes right now... M235i
The 2 Series is really the best car BMW makes right now. Seriously. It drives like a proper BMW too, for the most part.
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      10-10-2014, 12:49 AM   #26
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I have test driven the M235i twice now. I don't see what the big deal is.
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      10-10-2014, 07:03 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virage View Post
are you listing your cayman?
I will be in the spring, unless someone makes me an offer I can't refuse in the meantime.
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      10-10-2014, 07:04 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtwyim View Post
There is no way you can get a 991 for 70k right now.

You should consider CPO 997 older than 2011.
Indeed as I noted the 991S is beyond my budget. I actually prefer the look of my 981 over a 997.
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      10-10-2014, 07:08 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxa121 View Post
You want 300 ft lbs of low rpm torque, close to 3000 lbs, and naturally aspirated?
Don't we all.

That description is what the M2 SHOULD be, but wont. The E9X M has the torque, but not the diet. The cayman S is the perfect package, really.

Realistically, if you don't want to rev a car out to get thrust, a turbo is the best thing. Period. Boost is your friend, and BMW makes some great turbo cars.

I think you would be really happy with an M235i if you did a "blind" driving test.
I appreciate the thought, but I am very sensitive to turbo lag. I drove a 135i and I did not like the lag.
I am not the only one who still feels it on modern BMW's

http://www.windingroad.com/articles/...bmw-m3-and-m4/
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      10-10-2014, 07:21 AM   #30
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There are no small cars made by German manufacturers (Porsche being the exception) at the moment. The S5 is colossal. E9x M3 would be great, but it lacks low torque and is also hugely fat.

I don't know of a naturally aspirated engine outside american muscle that produces good low torque and is also equipped with a manual transmission. Mustang and Challenger SVT are both fat pigs. The C63 AMG would match your wants, all but for that auto box.

Dodge started making the Viper SRT-10 again back in 2013. I think they originally went on sale for ~90,000. Maybe you could find a good one used in your price range?

I think other folks have it right here: Go for that C7!
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      10-10-2014, 03:49 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baege View Post
I appreciate the thought, but I am very sensitive to turbo lag. I drove a 135i and I did not like the lag.
I am not the only one who still feels it on modern BMW's

http://www.windingroad.com/articles/...bmw-m3-and-m4/
I've read that the M3/4 has essentially no turbo lag and that the bottom end grunt is much better than the e9X M3.
Worth a test drive it you ask me.
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      10-10-2014, 04:02 PM   #32
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Not sure if you have $70K or will be financing the majority of the car, but have you thought about a build if you do have $70K? For example lets just say you love the way the e30 looks. It could be any car that could be found for inexpensive that has a good starting point for a great build. Find THE ONE that needs restoration and do a complete build. You can buy a crate engine and add all the modern amenities you could ask for. Essentially this way you have a brand new car exactly the way you want. It would take a lot of work, but I'm sure it would be rewarding. Just thinking outside the box. I haven't seen any other mentions of something like this.

ps - I found a few non S 997.2 Carrera's in my area that fit your budget and requirements on Autotrader.
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      10-10-2014, 05:12 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baege View Post
I appreciate the thought, but I am very sensitive to turbo lag. I drove a 135i and I did not like the lag.
I am not the only one who still feels it on modern BMW's

http://www.windingroad.com/articles/...bmw-m3-and-m4/
Get a tune?
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      10-11-2014, 09:44 AM   #34
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Wait until you can afford a 991S used or otherwise.
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      10-11-2014, 06:10 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twix View Post
New turbo engine will create the same if not more low end torque than a N/A engine. If it's torque you're after for light to light, reconsider a turbo engine. If you want a N/A engine, expect to rev it like you had to with the Cayman.
Was about to give you that exact advice.
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      10-11-2014, 09:03 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxa121 View Post
You want 300 ft lbs of low rpm torque, close to 3000 lbs, and naturally aspirated?
Don't we all.

That description is what the M2 SHOULD be, but wont. The E9X M has the torque, but not the diet. The cayman S is the perfect package, really.

Realistically, if you don't want to rev a car out to get thrust, a turbo is the best thing. Period. Boost is your friend, and BMW makes some great turbo cars.

I think you would be really happy with an M235i if you did a "blind" driving test.
This is what I don't get, if we all want it, then why doesn't anyone build such a car?

Update:

test drove an e89 3.0sdrive and a M235i today. Both manual.

the e89 30sdrive was not my deal, I came from a e86 Z4 coupe 3.0si and I could feel the extra weight of the e89 in both acceleration and handling. Somehow I also didn't like the driving position all that much. Car was overall not a good fit for me.


M235i: yup my sensitivity to turbos was there again, I could feel turbo lag just as I had when I drove the 135i 5 years ago. The m235i may actually be quicker than my CS but FOR ME, its normally aspirated engine is much more fun and visceral. I will avoid turbos until they stop making NA or supercharged engines.

so really the only cars left standing are the S5 and the C7.

(thanks to those who suggested the viper but it really too big for me and too impractical to be my only car)
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      10-11-2014, 09:30 PM   #37
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Just keep your Cayman S, if possible. I love the current generation.
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      10-12-2014, 01:00 AM   #38
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      10-14-2014, 12:06 AM   #39
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Drop a proper 991S engine in your Cayman. It's the car Porsche should make, but won't for fear of eroding 911 sales.

My Boxster Spyder manual with 997S X51 pumping out 430bhp in a 2800lb body is an epic road car. Best I've owned. Call BGB on the east coast or Vision on the west coast.
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      10-14-2014, 01:13 AM   #40
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Cayman S is supposedly driving nirvana, so a Z4 might be a bit underwhelming. C7 Z51, used CLK 63 Black Series (not manual, or 2011), used 1M (Not NA, but torquey and nimble), 2011/2012 Z06 with Z07 package. Sorry 2 of the cars do not really fit your criteria, just felt they were worth looking at in that price range.
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      10-14-2014, 06:40 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baege View Post
This is what I don't get, if we all want it, then why doesn't anyone build such a car?

Update:

test drove an e89 3.0sdrive and a M235i today. Both manual.

the e89 30sdrive was not my deal, I came from a e86 Z4 coupe 3.0si and I could feel the extra weight of the e89 in both acceleration and handling. Somehow I also didn't like the driving position all that much. Car was overall not a good fit for me.


M235i: yup my sensitivity to turbos was there again, I could feel turbo lag just as I had when I drove the 135i 5 years ago. The m235i may actually be quicker than my CS but FOR ME, its normally aspirated engine is much more fun and visceral. I will avoid turbos until they stop making NA or supercharged engines.

so really the only cars left standing are the S5 and the C7.

(thanks to those who suggested the viper but it really too big for me and too impractical to be my only car)
Well, at least you're doing your homework

S5 will be more of a "daily driver" type of car and will not feel as light or nimble as the Stingray. If you drive the Stingray, make sure it has the magnetic ride. I believe the S5 has an option for that as well, but the Stingray will definitely be sportscar you're looking for.
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      10-14-2014, 07:06 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoopumpers View Post
Drop a proper 991S engine in your Cayman. It's the car Porsche should make, but won't for fear of eroding 911 sales.

My Boxster Spyder manual with 997S X51 pumping out 430bhp in a 2800lb body is an epic road car. Best I've owned. Call BGB on the east coast or Vision on the west coast.
Interesting idea, I think the cost is about 30K which makes it out of my budget (my CS becomes a 100k car at that point).
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      10-14-2014, 07:07 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wisesoul View Post
Cayman S is supposedly driving nirvana, so a Z4 might be a bit underwhelming. C7 Z51, used CLK 63 Black Series (not manual, or 2011), used 1M (Not NA, but torquey and nimble), 2011/2012 Z06 with Z07 package. Sorry 2 of the cars do not really fit your criteria, just felt they were worth looking at in that price range.
appreciate the thoughts, I really am set on manual and non-turbo so the C7 is looking like it.
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      10-14-2014, 07:45 PM   #44
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The Alfa 4C might be fun. Maybe wait for the Z2M, although that will be turbo.

The Corvette is a great car for the $.

I would get a F80. In fact, I did. Love the engine response. Wish it was lighter, but for all the DD sensibility, it is awesome. And well under $70k.
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