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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions On the horns of a dilemma - M340i vs C43

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      02-05-2020, 02:25 PM   #89
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Take M340i no doubt.
Current C class are going to be outdated soon.
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      02-05-2020, 02:30 PM   #90
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I post in MB world in the c43 section, a lot of the harsh riding complaints can be fixed with a smaller diameter wheel (id do 18). I know the craze is increase the diameter, but the ride quality suffers.
That and the fact that the stock tires are run flats. Put some decent michelins on there (ps4s), on 18" and you're good to go.
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      02-05-2020, 02:59 PM   #91
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I have 19" michelins on my C43 and it rides better than with the OEM RF, but C43's have negative camber and tires wear out in aprox 10k miles.

what I like better on C43:
-amg sport exhaust, great exhaust with the open / closed switch
-leather interior
-seats are more comfortable than in M340
-overall exterior design looks classier than the toyotesque M340

What I like better on the M340:
-suspension
-technology- Idrive 7 is far superior to MB, also the adaptive cruise and auto pilot are better than the MB
-space, it feels roomier than the MB
-engine, is faster than the C43

The C43 has 19 months left on the lease, I cannot wait that long to get rid of it, I am waiting to see the new C class this year or the new BMW M440 GC, then I will put the C43 on swapalease, by the way, there are a lot of C43's on swapalease, for some reason a lot of people change their minds and want to get rid of them before lease expires.

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      02-05-2020, 05:20 PM   #92
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OP - Whats wrong with the M2C as a daily? In Efficient mode, its very well behaved and relatively calm.
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      02-05-2020, 10:38 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by StickForLife View Post
TLDR; I give my impressions of M340i XDrive vs C43 AMG 4MATIC, and would love to hear your thoughts!

Let's start by me mentioning that I've been a lifelong BMW fan, and considered Mercedes to only really be for old people. I've had an E46, have an E90, and my dream car is still an E39 M5. So for my next act, the M340xi would practically be a shoe-in.

I did the MTown Tour yesterday, very brief summary:

M5 Competition - Terrifyingly fast and also felt very heavy.
X3 M Competition - Great noise, something felt off about the seats.
M2 Competition - OMG I WANT THIS... but not for a daily driver!
M340xi - Goldilocks!

Then I thought to myself, "well, why don't I go for a test drive in the closest competitor to M340xi" and hit my local Benz dealer and tried out the C43 AMG.

And that just made life much more complicated! If I called the M340xi Goldilocks compared to her more athletic family, I would liken the C43 to be Goldilocks in a track suit.

So, here's my impressions and curious if anyone else has done this comparison:

Exterior:





M340xi is more athletic and sharper edged. While I am not a huge fan of the new grille, I'm actually OK with the tails. The unfinished Hofmeister kink is weird but not a deal breaker.

This year, C43 just got the prior C63's two bar grille and I must say it makes it MUCH sportier looking from the front than the old diamond point grille. The C43 will blend more in traffic due to the shape, but this is not a downside for me. I've always preferred "sleeper" to a more in your face look (hence, E39 M5).

Interior:




I love the Teutonic simplicity of the M340xi. It really harkens back to BMW's of old in shape, reminding me of the simple horizontal layout of the E30. It's coupled obviously with the modern touches but the overall effect works well. The G20, despite being actually bigger than the E90 on the inside doesn't actually feel larger because of this design. It maintains that cockpit feel and that is excellent. Seats are very good as well, with good bolsters and great adjustability.

The C43's interior immediately felt to me like it belonged in the next class of car. The combination of leather, metal, wood and glass raises it to an amazing level for the same price point. If passenger comfort is more important than driving pleasure, the C43 will edge out the M340i on that basis, while maintaining softer driving settings. More on that later...

Technology







I was interested in driving the car, so I don't have more than a brief impression of iDrive vs. COMAND. But I can talk about the displays.

Neither car this time round had a heads-up display. This meant that I had a traditional rev counter in the C43 and the backwards rev counter in the M340i. Both were driven with full manual shifting and the last time I tried a G20 330xi I had the heads up with the tach so never had to experience the backward rev counter.

I was worried this would be the worst part. It's not. It's nothing. It didn't bother me at all and I barely noticed it. What I did notice was that I never once glanced at the MTown route map in front of me in the cluster, I always glanced to the side to iDrive itself. That space feels almost wasted the way it currently is.

iDrive 7 I didn't play with much, but I love how much smaller the controller for iDrive is compared to the massively overdone arrangement for COMAND in the C43. I also feel it remains much more intuitive to feel through.

COMAND feels a half step behind on performance and cascading menus in the UI are confusing. The graphics are as pretty though! Clear advantage to BMW here. However the next Mercedes system, MBUX, seems like it will fix a number of these issues and it will be interesting to see what happens then. Also felt that the COMAND screen was just a bit too small compared to the beautiful large display in the M340i.

Which brings us to why we are here...

Driving!
The M340i has a perfect blend of sportiness and comfort, with much more feel than the F30 and not as much as the E90. I drove the M340i in Sport on not the most challenging roads and on a much shorter drive. In that brief time, I noted the following:

1. xDrive trumps RWD. My first BMW was an E46 330xi and while I dearly loved that car, it never let you forget it was AWD. My current car is a 2011 E90 6MT RWD. I absolutely love the feel of RWD, the car just speaks to you better. This was the first time driving an xDrive where I couldn't feel the AWD. It seems like they filtered out the interference with the front steering feel thanks to it being a fully electric rack. I also managed to kick the tail out taking a corner in a first This fact, plus the near 400 horsepower, plus my sad reality of Cleveland makes it not so bitter a pill to swallow for the next car.

2. The ZF-8 speed is only a bit slower than the DCT. I loved the shifts in the M2 Competition, it was my cherry for driving DCT. But I was amazed at just how close the shifts in sport were on the M340i. I really didn't feel I was losing all that much over my 6MT because the speed of the shifts compensated for the slower more deliberate (also fun) shifts in my car.

3. Weight penalty. Boring math ahead. My E90 is approximately 3600 lbs, and the M340xi is 3968. That makes it 368 lbs, or two slight larger than average adults heavier. I was very concerned that this would make the car, now grown in size to an E39 5-series, feel ponderous. I had a taste of what weight feels like dragging down the drive when I drove the M5 Competition, which weighs in at 4370, or 770 lbs more than my car!! I am very happy to report, I felt no difference in the nimbleness of the M340xi to my 335i! I suspect part of it is due to the increased chassis rigidity and the rest is due to the improvements in responsiveness with the B58 vs the N55. For comparison, the C43 is a touch lighter than the M340xi, at 3825.

3. Suspension modes. While I personally prefer my passive M-Sport suspension for "purity", the adaptive has gotten very good. The changes to feel have also sharpened up comfort mode a bit. I still drove in Sport mode mostly. The BMW struck a more consistent feel across all modes than the Mercedes. And that brings us to her rival.

Driving Impression vs. the C43.

Now, I got to drive the C43 on roads I am familiar with and challenge the car dynamically quite a bit more. I will absolutely take an M340xi to this "home course" at some point. Because of this, I am not going to focus on capability as much as I am going to focus on feel.

1. C43 FEELS faster. I'm emphasizing this first. In actual point of fact C43 is NOT faster, but it absolutely feels faster. Seems like Mercedes has purposely engineered in less refinement, more rawness, to distinguish between the AMG-lite and her common Mercedes brethren. This means:

- Shifts are rougher, with hesitancy and holding of gears longer.
- The gearbox feels like it is shorter geared, to make you hit 5000 RPM more often while still going sane speeds.
- The crackles and pops in the exhaust have a volume setting (comfort and loud modes)
- The entire cluster flashes RED as a shift light!

It also means:

- The divide between modes on the Benz is higher than on the BMW. Benz does Comfort, Sports, and Sports+ as BMW does, but Benz in Comfort is TOO soft, almost feels wallowy. Sports is harder edged than our Sport, and Mercedes' Sports+ is harder edged again than our Sport Plus.
- The ZF-8 speed is smoother overall and that matters when you are NOT hammering it.

I felt more bumps in the C43 but neither car had crashy suspension over bumps like a classic E46 M3, or for that matter a modern passive M2 Competition!

C43 also has an excellent steering wheel rivaling our MSport wheels with a caveat... metal paddles get REALLY hot in summer! Both cars had great steering feel for modern electric racks. Weighting is excellent in both, in Sport mode.

BMW has not figured out the modern dynamic digital cluster like her rivals have. The Benz cluster was much more engaging, had much more customizability and remained legible and easy to read at speed. Hopefully BMW realizes that a traditional analog cluster graphic should always be an option. The AMG cluster setting puts tachometer front and center with speed and gearing inset, so you have very easy access to the most pertinent data.

Cost
When priced out online using a combination of options and packages, the BMW will always win over the C43. When priced out using packages only, the delta slips to just about a grand. Given negotiation, either car could win from that perspective.

Conclusion?
While I always had a soft spot for the W211 E55 AMG wagon because of its sheer insanity, in general I always saw Mercedes as a car for the 70-plus crowd. BMWs egg you on, "go faster, turn harder, c'mon what are you waiting for?" Mercedes felt like they would do anything you asked but wouldn't push you.

This one though. This one pushes you. HARD. Constantly whispering, "faster, more, more, more". It feels less sanitized, less built to appeal to the driving masses and more to the actual driver.

I feel torn because it seems Mercedes' is encroaching upon the classic ultimate driving machine philosophy and yet I know just how good BMW's engineers are at fulfilling that at the core of the new G-series cars, it just seems you have to dig for it more. I think I need more seat time in the M340xi on better roads. But right now, I am finding the C43 a formidable rival.

What are your thoughts?
Perhaps it is because I drove into the Mercedes lot to test drive the C43 in my 2017 M3, but the Mercedes didn’t do it for me. I found the gearbox cumbersome. I found the interior trying too hard. The car doesn’t handle like a BMW. At a glance maybe, but on familiar back roads here in CT the BMW is much more composed.

The M340 is a sweet spot. It’s 90% the outgoing M3 and honestly it’s the 90% where you find yourself driving. The best car I think BMW has put out since my e90 530 sport stick. That was simply sublime.

The M340 isn’t trying to be a track car... but I’m not driving on the track. It’s a car that promises to be easy to live with. Comfortable, plenty fast, very nice handling. A bit understated.

I even went away from the silver, gray and black.

The tanzanite blue with the black rims at dusk is stunning. A perfect car to go out to dinner. The cognac interior is beautiful. It’s not a Bentley.... but who cares. It’s not Bentley money either. Not close.

Live with it for 3 or 4 years. Think the ownership experience will be better than the Mercedes. They are both great cars. But the BMW, to me, is the more ‘honest’ of the two. The Mercedes just appears to be trying too hard.
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      02-06-2020, 06:22 PM   #94
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OP - Whats wrong with the M2C as a daily? In Efficient mode, its very well behaved and relatively calm.
In another world, nothing whatsoever. I enjoy a focused car with no distractions from the driving experience and a six-speed to snap to and fro to a great inline-six soundtrack!

In my world, unfortunately I need 4 doors and true civility. I have my eye firmly on an M2 Comp when that's no longer a requirement.
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      02-06-2020, 06:29 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewM3driver View Post
Perhaps it is because I drove into the Mercedes lot to test drive the C43 in my 2017 M3, but the Mercedes didn’t do it for me. I found the gearbox cumbersome. I found the interior trying too hard. The car doesn’t handle like a BMW. At a glance maybe, but on familiar back roads here in CT the BMW is much more composed.

The M340 is a sweet spot. It’s 90% the outgoing M3 and honestly it’s the 90% where you find yourself driving. The best car I think BMW has put out since my e90 530 sport stick. That was simply sublime.

The M340 isn’t trying to be a track car... but I’m not driving on the track. It’s a car that promises to be easy to live with. Comfortable, plenty fast, very nice handling. A bit understated.

I even went away from the silver, gray and black.

The tanzanite blue with the black rims at dusk is stunning. A perfect car to go out to dinner. The cognac interior is beautiful. It’s not a Bentley.... but who cares. It’s not Bentley money either. Not close.

Live with it for 3 or 4 years. Think the ownership experience will be better than the Mercedes. They are both great cars. But the BMW, to me, is the more ‘honest’ of the two. The Mercedes just appears to be trying too hard.
And the more I thought on it afterwards, the more the Benz seemed like that great time with a good friend who you later found was sleeping with your SO

You're spot on, and the honesty of the BMW called back to me and after my autocross day the decision was easy. I was shocked at how the car spoke to me even with the electric steering and the ZF8. I could still feel everything I needed to through the chassis itself.

Maybe I'll regret losing that deeper connection through mechanical steering and gearbox, but I also know I can always get that back with an M2 Comp in the future or something older and more purposeful like a classic E46 M3.
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      02-06-2020, 10:25 PM   #96
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I went from a 2017 C43 to a M340xi.

I could not wait to get out of my Benz. I’ve had 2 C63s (2011, 2014), a C400 and then the C43.

C43 has a very comfortable interior, great seats, and a well laid out interior. The build quality is very so-so. Rattles, pieces move easily with a little pressure, although I was blessed with very little squeaks. The exhaust is neat, but tiresome and obnoxious after a year or so. Burmeester was decent, and the steering was probably the best aspect of the car. The car also has decent curb appeal.

Worst? The ride. What a joke. Honestly, not worthy of the brand, IMO. Crashes easily with poor damping no matter the setting. Jarring, and just plain tiresome. I have a 2017 Z06 that rides better and would find any opportunity to drive it over the C43. The Conti tires are a disaster, and expect to blow them out and bend some rims.

The 2019 I drove improved somewhat, and the dealer was willing to put Pilot 4S tires on, but in the end , I felt the BMW did everything just a little better, and with far more refinement. The ride is a huge improvement, and also puts the S5 to shame which was actually a little worse than the improved 2019 C43. The build quality was a significant step above and pushing on the center console, where my C43 could be moved, the BMW was granite-like.

In closing I will say this: if the C43 is a car that is driven as a treat, let’s say 500-800 miles a month, you will enjoy. But as a daily driver, you will come to resent it as it beats you up around town just doing the mundane, and it will drown out most of the enjoyment of that country road that you carve on the weekend.
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      02-07-2020, 09:11 AM   #97
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Quote:
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I went from a 2017 C43 to a M340xi.

I could not wait to get out of my Benz. I’ve had 2 C63s (2011, 2014), a C400 and then the C43.

C43 has a very comfortable interior, great seats, and a well laid out interior. The build quality is very so-so. Rattles, pieces move easily with a little pressure, although I was blessed with very little squeaks. The exhaust is neat, but tiresome and obnoxious after a year or so. Burmeester was decent, and the steering was probably the best aspect of the car. The car also has decent curb appeal.

Worst? The ride. What a joke. Honestly, not worthy of the brand, IMO. Crashes easily with poor damping no matter the setting. Jarring, and just plain tiresome. I have a 2017 Z06 that rides better and would find any opportunity to drive it over the C43. The Conti tires are a disaster, and expect to blow them out and bend some rims.

The 2019 I drove improved somewhat, and the dealer was willing to put Pilot 4S tires on, but in the end , I felt the BMW did everything just a little better, and with far more refinement. The ride is a huge improvement, and also puts the S5 to shame which was actually a little worse than the improved 2019 C43. The build quality was a significant step above and pushing on the center console, where my C43 could be moved, the BMW was granite-like.

In closing I will say this: if the C43 is a car that is driven as a treat, let’s say 500-800 miles a month, you will enjoy. But as a daily driver, you will come to resent it as it beats you up around town just doing the mundane, and it will drown out most of the enjoyment of that country road that you carve on the weekend.
Years ago Mercedes was a very well built luxury car, and BMW was a very well built sporty car. Handling, in particular, was at the opposite ends of the spectrum. They each had their customers who knew which type of car they wanted to drive.

Mercedes started it first... changing their ideals in an attempt to win over BMW customers. All of the sudden, their ads were bragging about how "sporty" Mercedes had become.

Sadly, BMW took the bait and began making the ultimate driving machine more comfortable. Many have said in doing so that BMW has lost its way.

People drive differently. Years ago BMW and Mercedes customers were very different types of drivers and each car was the better fit for them. It is interesting how marketing and sales has caused these tote great manufactures towards each other.
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      02-07-2020, 09:34 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewM3driver View Post
Years ago Mercedes was a very well built luxury car, and BMW was a very well built sporty car. Handling, in particular, was at the opposite ends of the spectrum. They each had their customers who knew which type of car they wanted to drive.

Mercedes started it first... changing their ideals in an attempt to win over BMW customers. All of the sudden, their ads were bragging about how "sporty" Mercedes had become.

Sadly, BMW took the bait and began making the ultimate driving machine more comfortable. Many have said in doing so that BMW has lost its way.

People drive differently. Years ago BMW and Mercedes customers were very different types of drivers and each car was the better fit for them. It is interesting how marketing and sales has caused these tote great manufactures towards each other.
I definitely agree with this sentiment. Never in my life did I think I would own a Mercedes. I always saw them as the retiree car, although I did really like the AMG's, but they were always luxury, and BMW was always sport, and my wife and I only had BMW's in our garage (and one Porsche) for over 20 years. But for the first time in over 20 years in 2018, there was no BMW in my garage, but rather a Mercedes, the first ever brand I have owned outside of BMW (and the one Porsche), it really shows you, they are changing their cars and the market is changing with it. And honestly, I'm not really looking back, I've enjoyed my CLS because of its better mix of luxury and sport more than my last 5-series, and I will likely get another Mercedes after that, possibly an E-cabrio. I still love some BMW's, my wife and I love our M2C which we think is possibly the best BMW of the modern era, but Mercedes has been catching my eyes as of lately, and I plan to stay with them as well.
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      02-07-2020, 10:37 AM   #99
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You do have a point there NewM3driver, in the days of the E36/E46, aka my foray into BMW's. You'd be hard pressed to find someone shopping for a 3er looking for a C class. Today, all that's changed and we have this overlap.

I didn't even knew Mercedes had changed their formula and started making sporty cars until recently since I never paid much attention to the brand. In my BMW days, we had zero interest in Mercedes or even Audi. Usually when someone got rid of their Bimmer it was for an affordable 911. Fast forward a decade and all that has changed.
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      02-07-2020, 10:48 AM   #100
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I was considering a C43 but I've heard it's not a great daily (confirmed above too). Also think the 3 series looks better.

Only thing I'm worried about w my build is not speccing w M adaptive suspension. Hoping it won't be too stiff for daily use since I live in the city. I know that was a major complaint about the C43's.

Now that my VIN is assigned I can't change my build anymore. Of course I waited until the last minute before deciding but thought I'd spend the extra $ on an MPE and summer tires/rims set up
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      02-07-2020, 01:30 PM   #101
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The Mercs melted rear end and chintz fest interior are just wrong plus a column mounted gear selector? Nah.
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      02-07-2020, 01:47 PM   #102
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The Mercs melted rear end and chintz fest interior are just wrong plus a column mounted gear selector? Nah.
I still don't get why people hate the column mounted shifter? Cars have had column mounted shifters for decades, not to mention most people use the paddles. It clears up center storage space and works the same way that any modern electric shifter works, just mounted on the column.

Funny enough, I actually think BMW was the first automaker to use an electronic shifter in the E65 Bangle 7 and it was actually column mounted!
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      02-07-2020, 01:49 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
I still don't get why people hate the column mounted shifter? Cars have had column mounted shifters for decades, not to mention most people use the paddles. It clears up center storage space and works the same way that any modern electric shifter works, just mounted on the column.

Funny enough, I actually think BMW was the first automaker to use an electronic shifter in the E65 Bangle 7 and it was actually column mounted!
I hate them because it reminds me of a minivan or when I was a teenager driving my Mom's old Caddy around lol
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      02-07-2020, 02:06 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
I still don't get why people hate the column mounted shifter? Cars have had column mounted shifters for decades, not to mention most people use the paddles. It clears up center storage space and works the same way that any modern electric shifter works, just mounted on the column.

Funny enough, I actually think BMW was the first automaker to use an electronic shifter in the E65 Bangle 7 and it was actually column mounted!
First and last time they used one, it's a cheap plastic column shift reminds me of a 80's squared off Cadillac and not sporty or premium a bit like Mercs old foot operated park brake....thunk!

Merc make some nice cars but for me the c class isn't one of them.
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      02-07-2020, 02:43 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Gdiddy23 View Post
I was considering a C43 but I've heard it's not a great daily (confirmed above too). Also think the 3 series looks better.

Only thing I'm worried about w my build is not speccing w M adaptive suspension. Hoping it won't be too stiff for daily use since I live in the city. I know that was a major complaint about the C43's.

Now that my VIN is assigned I can't change my build anymore. Of course I waited until the last minute before deciding but thought I'd spend the extra $ on an MPE and summer tires/rims set up
M340 with passive sport suspension is better than the C43 , you will be OK, I have adaptive suspension on mine and always put it on sport anyway, and is less stiff than the comfort in the C43.
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      02-07-2020, 02:45 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
The Mercs melted rear end and chintz fest interior are just wrong plus a column mounted gear selector? Nah.
I like the column shifter on the C43, is a great idea, I mean, it is an automatic transmission, why do you need the shifter on the center console?
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      02-07-2020, 02:47 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by paulbazoV2 View Post
I like the column shifter on the C43, is a great idea, I mean, it is an automatic transmission, why do you need the shifter on the center console?
I agree, its fine and it frees up space. None of the electronic shifters really feel premium anyways so I don't have a problem with it and have easily adjusted to it.
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      02-07-2020, 02:51 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by paulbazoV2 View Post
I like the column shifter on the C43, is a great idea, I mean, it is an automatic transmission, why do you need the shifter on the center console?
Here's the thing, you can like it which is great but others might have a different view which is also fine....

For me the control interfaces of a car matter, for others they matter less or not at all, which is fine.
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      02-07-2020, 03:22 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
Here's the thing, you can like it which is great but others might have a different view which is also fine....

For me the control interfaces of a car matter, for others they matter less or not at all, which is fine.
Yes , true. But most people who actually own or lease one get use to it and like it. Before leasing this C43 , the column shifter was one of the things I did not like, but after a few weeks I found it to be great, smart location. I used to think that the shifter had to be in the center console, probably because in the past when sport cars had manual transmission it had to be in the center console, and bigger non sporty automatic cars had in the column, even some american cars with manual transmision and bench seats had it in the column. Later, for an american car to be sporty it had to have bucket seats and center console shifters.
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      02-07-2020, 07:05 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
You do have a point there NewM3driver, in the days of the E36/E46, aka my foray into BMW's. You'd be hard pressed to find someone shopping for a 3er looking for a C class. Today, all that's changed and we have this overlap.

I didn't even knew Mercedes had changed their formula and started making sporty cars until recently since I never paid much attention to the brand. In my BMW days, we had zero interest in Mercedes or even Audi. Usually when someone got rid of their Bimmer it was for an affordable 911. Fast forward a decade and all that has changed.
We have had more BMW's than I can count at this point... A few Mercedes E class and a couple Porsche. I don't miss the Mercedes at all to be honest. I love and won't ever get rid of my air cooled Carrera 993. Wouldn't trade it for a brand new one and I'm serious about that.

If you enjoy driving, like nice things, are ever so inclined to want to treat yourself.... the air cooled Porsche world is SO much more than just a sports car. While I won't call it an investment, I will say nice examples are appreciating in value and the drive is absolutely the best.
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