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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions G20 3 Series vs Tesla Model 3

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      02-21-2019, 07:59 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by sbt007 View Post
What are you talking about. I have a F30 and I love the interior. Honestly in some ways it is better than the G30 with its non-removable silver trims around the vents. Tesla does not even compete in the same league in my opinion - maybe with base hondas and toyotas except the interior is ugly while the honda/toyota interior is competent.
We went through countless threads regarding F30 interior. Too many gaps, too many hard plastic pieces, mediocre material in critical areas, the silver trim you refer to are convincingly plastic. It's one of my biggest gripes about the F30.

Model 3 has decent materials through out. The design is simple and sparse, but quality is there. You just have to look closer. The steering wheel is a perfect example. It is excellent but lacks all the BMW jazz. That M steering wheel in F30 is terrible in comparison. I had two of those.
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      02-21-2019, 08:27 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
Don't worry about this too much. The built-in functionality covers most Carplay use cases.
Problem is I am now accustomed to Android Auto and wife loves Carplay. Wife's Mercedes has aweful UI but Carplay more than makes up for it. Teslas to implemnt this or their UI gets outdated in no time. I miss asking Google Assistance with a simple click. Teslas voice command lacks in functionality. I hate Teslas streaming app (Slacker?).

Can I live without? Probably, but it would complete the interior imo. Considering Model 3 has WiFi capability, it can do wireless Carplay and Android Auto, if Tesla is willing.
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      02-21-2019, 08:37 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by ecaedus View Post
-yeah good luck with that, i found wayyyyy to many defects like small bubbles, chips and clear coat scratches on mine. it's more like a $100 paintjob than a $2000 one, huge rip off.
We took delivery 12/30, paint was excellent I only found 1 spek of diust embedded, but a Deep scratch on rear bumper circled in light marker. So they found the scratch and decided I should take delivery with it. It was a zoo cause they were overwhelmed with last minute deliveries. Long story short. Their customer service let me down. Good people, but need better management. They tried hard but too much headless chicken.

What I am trying to say is, Tesla paint can be good cause I almost had a good one. It was a December.built.
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      02-22-2019, 08:27 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by blinkme323 View Post
I suspect that most if not all of the negative criticism is coming from those that have never driven / sat in a Model 3.
How do you regard large sample reliability data from actual owners, per the CR survey?

I don't think we've had much, if any, criticism of the actual driving experience. I will stipulate to great performance, even not having driven one. When I saw the assembly quality of and sat in the car Tesla deemed good enough for our local showroom, how it drove no longer mattered to my purchase decision at that time, leading to my 330. I made somewhat of a leap of faith that the visible quality might reflect on their overall quality process, and bailed out, return deposit requested. The owner data now being reported supports that earlier prediction, notwithstanding how much they love driving it.
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      02-22-2019, 08:39 AM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
How do you regard large sample reliability data from actual owners, per the CR survey?

I don't think we've had much, if any, criticism of the actual driving experience. I will stipulate to great performance, even not having driven one. When I saw the assembly quality of and sat in the car Tesla deemed good enough for our local showroom, how it drove no longer mattered to my purchase decision at that time, leading to my 330. I made somewhat of a leap of faith that the visible quality might reflect on their overall quality process, and bailed out, return deposit requested. The owner data now being reported supports that earlier prediction, notwithstanding how much they love driving it.
Oh it's definitely a concern, but also somewhat expected given that it is their first "mass produced" model. That said, all I that can base my opinion off of is the Tesla that I personally sat in and drove, for which the materials and fit / finish were fine.

Now is all of that somewhat subjective? Sure. But it's also a first hand account of what hopefully is an improvement on the new models off the line. Time will tell I suppose...
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      02-22-2019, 08:46 AM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkme323 View Post
Oh it's definitely a concern, but also somewhat expected given that it is their first "mass produced" model. That said, all I that can base my opinion off of is the Tesla that I personally sat in and drove, for which the materials and fit / finish were fine.

Now is all of that somewhat subjective? Sure. But it's also a first hand account of what hopefully is an improvement on the new models off the line. Time will tell I suppose...
Wasn't the Model S their first "Mass produced" model back in 2012?
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      02-22-2019, 08:50 AM   #315
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Wasn't the Model S their first "Mass produced" model back in 2012?
If building a few hundred a week means mass produced, then sure. The initial goal for the Model 3 was 5000 per week...
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      02-22-2019, 10:05 AM   #316
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So CR has the weekly podcast out now. Survey is from 500 Model 3s. All the issues are not actually "reliability" issues. In fact, they stated powertrain is rock solid. Thier podcast is boring and geared for grandma's, but this one is worth a listen if you are thinking about Model 3.
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      02-22-2019, 10:23 AM   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkme323 View Post
Sparse, yes. I thought the materials were actually pretty decent though. Just my opinion.

I agree the Performance is insane though. That first time you stomp on the pedal is surreal, haha.
I have a F80 M3 myself.

My wife wanted to look at the Model 3 and the only one they had available for test drive was the Performance model. I agree that the acceleration and handling is out of the this world even coming from my M3. The only thing I didn't like about the car was the doors and the seats. The door sounds hollow when closed and the seats felt almost like I was sitting on a bubble. haha.

Would I get one. Not sure. I still prefer the look of the F80 M3 even though the Model 3 looks really good. The Model S as well.

This will be my wife's car so she can decide what she wants. I got my M3 still
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      02-22-2019, 10:26 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by openwheelracing View Post
We took delivery 12/30, paint was excellent I only found 1 spek of diust embedded, but a Deep scratch on rear bumper circled in light marker. So they found the scratch and decided I should take delivery with it. It was a zoo cause they were overwhelmed with last minute deliveries. Long story short. Their customer service let me down. Good people, but need better management. They tried hard but too much headless chicken.

What I am trying to say is, Tesla paint can be good cause I almost had a good one. It was a December.built.
glad they are improving, mine was one from last July's big production rush so i'm not surprised about the paint defects.
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      02-22-2019, 10:34 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by openwheelracing View Post
So CR has the weekly podcast out now. Survey is from 500 Model 3s. All the issues are not actually "reliability" issues. In fact, they stated powertrain is rock solid. Thier podcast is boring and geared for grandma's, but this one is worth a listen if you are thinking about Model 3.
"Reliability" is not only an issue which strands the car. "Reliability" is any defect of any part that does not perform to design intent and needs repair. n=500 is quite robust.
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      02-22-2019, 11:29 AM   #320
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Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
"Reliability" is not only an issue which strands the car. "Reliability" is any defect of any part that does not perform to design intent and needs repair. n=500 is quite robust.
bloomberg tracker says Model 3 shipment was 155k up to 12/31/2018, so the sample size is 0.5%(a bit small?)

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-tracker/
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      02-22-2019, 11:38 AM   #321
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bloomberg tracker says Model 3 shipment was 155k up to 12/31/2018, so the sample size is 0.5%(a bit small?)
500 is a huge sample size. That's Statistics 101.

The primary concern for people doing these surveys is figuring out if this is a good sample that properly represents the whole population. But that's unrelated to the size.
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      02-22-2019, 11:40 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by openwheelracing View Post
Thier podcast is boring and geared for grandma's,
Set playback speed to 1.5x, and it's fine.
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      02-22-2019, 11:50 AM   #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianride View Post
bloomberg tracker says Model 3 shipment was 155k up to 12/31/2018, so the sample size is 0.5%(a bit small?)

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-tracker/
Not at all....at the median of the distribution, the margin of error at n=500 is =/-4.38. This is quite robust and similar to national polling. The sample size can represent the population regardless of how large the population is if the sample is properly designed to be representative.
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      02-22-2019, 12:08 PM   #324
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Not at all....at the median of the distribution, the margin of error at n=500 is =/-4.38. This is quite robust and similar to national polling. The sample size can represent the population regardless of how large the population is if the sample is properly designed to be representative.
That is 95% confidence level though, I thought Telsa and BMW owners demand 99%!

@95%, +/-4, pop 15500, n should be around 600.
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      02-22-2019, 12:47 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by bavarianride View Post
That is 95% confidence level though, I thought Telsa and BMW owners demand 99%!

@95%, +/-4, pop 15500, n should be around 600.
Good to keep a sense of humor about it! Of course, it doesn't work based on owner demands, and few if any, business decisions are premised on the differential in confidence level from 95% to 99%. I re-ran the significance tool using n=500 for your observation with the resulting margin of error/confidence interval. Bottom line, CR sample is robust, but doesn't address loving the car anyway due to high TGR.
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      02-22-2019, 01:01 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
Good to keep a sense of humor about it! Of course, it doesn't work based on owner demands, and few if any, business decisions are premised on the differential in confidence level from 95% to 99%. I re-ran the significance tool using n=500 for your observation with the resulting margin of error/confidence interval. Bottom line, CR sample is robust, but doesn't address loving the car anyway due to high TGR.
Yes stats can be nudged both ways with some margins.

E.g. if survey participants do not include Q4 deliveries, then the population will be below 15500, and the sample size of 500 will become a lot more robust .... The magic of statistics!

This comment from CR is spot on:

“In most cases, reliability issues will undermine satisfaction,” Fisher adds. “But when a vehicle has an enthusiastic following, like with Tesla, owners may overlook some issues. We’ve seen this with other vehicles such as the Jeep Wrangler and Chevrolet Corvette.”
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      02-22-2019, 01:05 PM   #327
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This comment from CR is spot on:

“In most cases, reliability issues will undermine satisfaction,” Fisher adds. “But when a vehicle has an enthusiastic following, like with Tesla, owners may overlook some issues. We’ve seen this with other vehicles such as the Jeep Wrangler and Chevrolet Corvette.”
So true....if TGR/TGW>1, folks are often happy!
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      02-22-2019, 01:13 PM   #328
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Someone posted this over at Jalopnik:

"Model 3 owner and previous Tesla fan here.

This rating does not surprise me. I got my Model 3 (briefly) in October 2018.

My car was delivered with major defects. Not cosmetic defects, either—the car was actually decent cosmetically—major functional defects.

Defects like, broken turn signals ("known problem, bad batch of modules, needs replacement") and a major, intermittent computer failure that takes down the one-and-only-screen-with-all-the-instruments. Difficult to drive without those, so the car has less than 300 miles on it since October. My Model 3 has spent most of its life at a Tesla service center.

Not only did the car leave the factory this way, an employee drove it to my house this way. He spent five minutes, reassured me if I found anything wrong I had three days to return the car for a full refund, and jumped into his Lyft to go pick up another car for delivery.

I'm not surprised the car had some issues—I'd heard enough about the Model 3's growing pains. What really surprised me was how Tesla hasn't tried to make it right. Hours on hold, then troubleshooting over the phone with technicians (who were actually excellent), followed by promises for return calls and followup that never happened.

I'm really tolerant when a new product has issues. As long as the company makes it right, and shows a commitment to taking care of me as a customer, all is forgiven.

Tesla, on the other hand, can't be bothered. It's a crapshoot, where maybe you get a good one and all is well. If you don't, good luck. There's no one to turn to except Tesla (they sell direct, remember?) and unless you have an "in" with Elon, you're stuck with what you got. It's like complaining about a problem you have on a website—do you really expect a response?

So, the most expensive car I've ever bought has been the worst new-car experience I've ever had.

And that three day return policy? I asked to return the car on the first day, after I experienced these obvious, major issues. Tesla says:

...our return policy allows any customer who is unhappy with their car to return it for a full refund.
...but the policy doesn't mean much when they don't honor it.

I'm still waiting. Buyer beware."

https://jalopnik.com/consumer-report...ion-1832791379
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      02-22-2019, 03:07 PM   #329
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Tesla news is the best roller.coaster drama.

Now a German company conducted efficiency test between the old Model X against latest ETron and iPace. Tesla is 22% more efficient against the latest and greatest. It shows how well ahead Tesla is against the competition.
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      02-22-2019, 03:31 PM   #330
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Quote:
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"Reliability" is not only an issue which strands the car. "Reliability" is any defect of any part that does not perform to design intent and needs repair. n=500 is quite robust.
Dust under paint vs defective gasket. Not equal. One is reliable, the other is not.
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