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      05-10-2021, 11:22 PM   #1
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Michelin PS4S Tires Suck. Change my mind

Exactly as the title states. Iím not sure why everyone seems to love these tires. I never had the misfortune of having to drive on them until I bought my 340X. Broke loose constantly and seemed to behave as though the car was a pair of roller skates on an ice rink. Terrible. Then I wound up with a screw in one of the rear tires. I seized the opportunity to have them replaced with PSS (only in the rear because they no longer make a 225 for the front). I donít know whatís more irritating, the fact the BMW chose a skinny ass wheel for the front or that Michelin had the audacity to replace a good thing with garbage. AnywhoÖ I get my beloved PSS tires installed on the rear only because that was the problem area. Now it barely allows for any skidding on the pavement and I can get into the corners much more aggressively than I could before. The rear also tracks better and distinctly illustrates the weakness of the front tires. By looking at the specs and the tires, youíd think theyíd be an upgrade. I believe the totally changed their formula to cater to a quieter ride and to be more climate friendly.

Unfortunately, it looks like Iím shit out of luck because I canít find my front tires anywhere in the states so Iím going to have to swap out and go with a square 8.5Ē setup so I can toss 255s on the front because at least theyíre still making those for the time being. After that I suppose Iíll have to go dumpster diving.

Iím kind of curious if anyone else has had the same or similar experience and if youíd like to share it. I really thought I was losing my mind. Sucks it wasnít true. /EndRant
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      05-11-2021, 06:15 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rostrata View Post
Exactly as the title states. I’m not sure why everyone seems to love these tires. I never had the misfortune of having to drive on them until I bought my 340X. Broke loose constantly and seemed to behave as though the car was a pair of roller skates on an ice rink. Terrible. Then I wound up with a screw in one of the rear tires. I seized the opportunity to have them replaced with PSS (only in the rear because they no longer make a 225 for the front). I don’t know what’s more irritating, the fact the BMW chose a skinny ass wheel for the front or that Michelin had the audacity to replace a good thing with garbage. Anywho… I get my beloved PSS tires installed on the rear only because that was the problem area. Now it barely allows for any skidding on the pavement and I can get into the corners much more aggressively than I could before. The rear also tracks better and distinctly illustrates the weakness of the front tires. By looking at the specs and the tires, you’d think they’d be an upgrade. I believe the totally changed their formula to cater to a quieter ride and to be more climate friendly.

Unfortunately, it looks like I’m shit out of luck because I can’t find my front tires anywhere in the states so I’m going to have to swap out and go with a square 8.5” setup so I can toss 255s on the front because at least they’re still making those for the time being. After that I suppose I’ll have to go dumpster diving.

I’m kind of curious if anyone else has had the same or similar experience and if you’d like to share it. I really thought I was losing my mind. Sucks it wasn’t true. /EndRant
What were the treads like on them? What temperature range were you driving them in? I had the polar opposite experience with PS4's. Had them on my 240 and it was a VERY difficult task trying to break them loose. My only complaint was the steering was a little less direct which I'm sure is attributed to the softer sidewall going from runflats to non runflats. I'll be putting the PS4's on my 340 in the next few days once I surpass the break in mileage.
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      05-11-2021, 06:38 AM   #3
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In virtually every test the PS4s has shown to be the superior tire. The only exception is that they trade off a tiny bit of steering and road feel for more comfort. This was my take away having owned both on several cars. Oh and the PS4S look better (sidewall) in my opinion.
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      05-11-2021, 08:03 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by m240nj View Post
What were the treads like on them? What temperature range were you driving them in? I had the polar opposite experience with PS4's. Had them on my 240 and it was a VERY difficult task trying to break them loose. My only complaint was the steering was a little less direct which I'm sure is attributed to the softer sidewall going from runflats to non runflats. I'll be putting the PS4's on my 340 in the next few days once I surpass the break in mileage.
Tread was perfect. No issues at all there. I also live in the southwest desert. Extremely low humidity (8-11% at the moment). And quite warm. Roads get hot as hell so warming up tires is never an issue. And yes, the soft sidewall really irritates me when it comes to tires. I donít like too much rollover/deflection and I prefer a more direct steering feel. Part of that issue will be resolved with the monoball kit which is on order. But still. Soft sidewall tires should never be lumped into the ultra high/max performance tire category. I hope they serve you well on your car once you swap over.
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      05-11-2021, 08:09 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Burrcold View Post
In virtually every test the PS4s has shown to be the superior tire. The only exception is that they trade off a tiny bit of steering and road feel for more comfort. This was my take away having owned both on several cars. Oh and the PS4S look better (sidewall) in my opinion.
I donít doubt that the performance data returned a particularly favorable result. But Iím also curious about the metrics and parameters behind the tests. As I mentioned in my other reply above, I abhor the idea that one should have to sacrifice road feel for ďcomfort.Ē Thatís what a good suspension is for. Tires are supposed to ground the vehicle completely. It isnít performance oriented if Iím losing that direct feedback which inhibits performance. Might also be a key reason as to why Iím not sliding everywhere now. I can feel the road again (at least in the rear) which allows for a better modulated throttle response. Which would immediately position the PSS well above the PS4S in performance. Bottom line, if I canít feel the goddamn road, itís meant for a Rolls Royce.
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      05-11-2021, 08:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rostrata View Post
I donít doubt that the performance data returned a particularly favorable result. But Iím also curious about the metrics and parameters behind the tests. As I mentioned in my other reply above, I abhor the idea that one should have to sacrifice road feel for ďcomfort.Ē Thatís what a good suspension is for. Tires are supposed to ground the vehicle completely. It isnít performance oriented if Iím losing that direct feedback which inhibits performance. Might also be a key reason as to why Iím not sliding everywhere now. I can feel the road again (at least in the rear) which allows for a better modulated throttle response. Which would immediately position the PSS well above the PS4S in performance. Bottom line, if I canít feel the goddamn road, itís meant for a Rolls Royce.
Have you looked into a more dedicated ultra performance tire like cup 2s?
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      05-12-2021, 01:42 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Burrcold View Post
Have you looked into a more dedicated ultra performance tire like cup 2s?
As it is a daily driver for the time being, I was trying to stay away from the Cup2. But, it isnít out of the question and has recently been elevated on my list of considerations. Eventually I simply wonít have a choice as the mods increase. By then Iíll have a dedicated daily so it wonít be a problem.

Still ticks me off that a supposedly superior tire canít handle just a little bit of throttle in a corner. The PSS performed better immediately upon installation, well before initial break-in was done while still slick with mold release compound. Crazy, but true.

PSS FOR LIFE.
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      05-12-2021, 03:01 PM   #8
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michelin

Quote:
Originally Posted by rostrata View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burrcold View Post
Have you looked into a more dedicated ultra performance tire like cup 2s?
As it is a daily driver for the time being, I was trying to stay away from the Cup2. But, it isn’t out of the question and has recently been elevated on my list of considerations. Eventually I simply won’t have a choice as the mods increase. By then I’ll have a dedicated daily so it won’t be a problem.

Still ticks me off that a supposedly superior tire can’t handle just a little bit of throttle in a corner. The PSS performed better immediately upon installation, well before initial break-in was done while still slick with mold release compound. Crazy, but true.

PSS FOR LIFE.
Just an article I was reading recently. May be of interest to some on here...

https://tflcar.com/2020/09/michelin-...rt-review/amp/
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      05-13-2021, 08:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rostrata View Post
Exactly as the title states. Iím not sure why everyone seems to love these tires. I never had the misfortune of having to drive on them until I bought my 340X. Broke loose constantly and seemed to behave as though the car was a pair of roller skates on an ice rink. Terrible. Then I wound up with a screw in one of the rear tires. I seized the opportunity to have them replaced with PSS (only in the rear because they no longer make a 225 for the front). I donít know whatís more irritating, the fact the BMW chose a skinny ass wheel for the front or that Michelin had the audacity to replace a good thing with garbage. AnywhoÖ I get my beloved PSS tires installed on the rear only because that was the problem area. Now it barely allows for any skidding on the pavement and I can get into the corners much more aggressively than I could before. The rear also tracks better and distinctly illustrates the weakness of the front tires. By looking at the specs and the tires, youíd think theyíd be an upgrade. I believe the totally changed their formula to cater to a quieter ride and to be more climate friendly.

Unfortunately, it looks like Iím shit out of luck because I canít find my front tires anywhere in the states so Iím going to have to swap out and go with a square 8.5Ē setup so I can toss 255s on the front because at least theyíre still making those for the time being. After that I suppose Iíll have to go dumpster diving.

Iím kind of curious if anyone else has had the same or similar experience and if youíd like to share it. I really thought I was losing my mind. Sucks it wasnít true. /EndRant
I just ran a track day on the PS4S, no real issues at 40-60 degree weather, and initially a wet track. To start the day out it was just too cold (summer tires, so of course) - so it was sliding around had no real rear grip.

As it warmed up, the PS4S did fine for the square setup I have (8.0 squared, 225's). The 225's just don't have enough grip to corner as hard as I would like without fighting the steering - but I'm more than confident a 235-245 would resolve the issue, if not 8.5 @ 245-255. That said, I used to run this same track with MPSS - they were good only for 1-2 hot laptops once they were hot, then they went fro no grip, to great grip, to somewhat greasy. That said, the PS4S went from little grip to great grip and stayed that way.

My experience and overall improvement in ride quality/comfort, because I do daily drive mine, it's more than a fair enough trade off for the tire. If you're driving your car around hard enough to cause it to slide around everywhere on the PS4S, respectfully, it sounds like you have either a driving style issue, or your expectations aren't in line with what the tire is intended to do? Are you driving in Sport+ with stability control off all the time? Even with the all seasons I had on prior to the PS4S I did not have any issues with sliding around. You have to really be driving hard to get the car to slide around as much as you're saying - or tire dressing the whole wheel lol.

Your experience isn't the norm, but I mean I couldn't autocross on MPSS because they really just sucked at that kind of movement on a short course, and on track they really only shined briefly. The PS4S seems to have closed that gap significantly and gives a better ride, which again was a welcome change for me. The next step up as mentioned is the Cup 2's, just be prepared for a harsher ride and overall a less long-term tread wear tire. $$$ good luck!
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      05-14-2021, 11:35 AM   #10
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A surprising review indeed. As someone who doesn't live his life a quarter mile at a time, I was nonchalant to the whole RTF vs PS4 discussion. When the switch to PS4s did happen for me, it was only because I had changed the wheels on my M340i, but ended up being absolutely blown away by the reduction in NVH, notable increase in ride comfort and substantially more grip than the RFTs. Sorry your experience with these sucked.
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      05-15-2021, 08:05 PM   #11
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I just put a set of 255/35ZR19 PS4s's on my '18 S4 (next car will be an M340) and I could not be happier. Never thought a set of tires could improve a car so much. Had to try them after reading all the good reviews but in the back of my mind did not expect them to be this good. I absolutely love these tires!
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      05-16-2021, 11:45 AM   #12
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ps4s's are my religion
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      05-19-2021, 08:12 PM   #13
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I am surprised to see a negative review about it here in this forum since a lot of members are impressed with Michelin PS4S. I guess we all have different experiences with this tire and yours is not a pleasing as it is supposed to be.
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      05-19-2021, 10:17 PM   #14
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Maybe your car needs an alignment..or maybe they aren't the right tires for your kind of driving. I have been running these tires since the f30,I switched to 235's all around (had a 320 with 225's all around), got a g20 330?last year immediately switched again 235's all around then got rims and again went with PS4Ss all around I love these tires, stickiest I ever had i had no grip at all with the stock P7 and if the road was barely damped you will have to baby it out of lights to not lose traction, I love how fast I can shoot out of dead stops now and car super planted at highway speeds it also feels great accelerating out of turns, but again maybe they aren't for everyone I can see that, one thing thing of course is they don't last very long as with many summer tires my rear tires only last like 7-10k but it never stopped me from getting another set
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      05-20-2021, 10:40 AM   #15
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TLDR///

All excellent points stated above. And yes, perhaps it is has a lot to do with driving style. Short answer, I'm not asking the car to d anything my previous daily driver couldn't do. For reference, that was a 2017 Audi A4 and also a 2021 A6 with factory sport suspensions on both riding on Michelin Pilot AS3+ tires. Both cars, while far different in ride quality, I could push to their limits (while still being safe, of course and never crossing double yellow lines in the canyons, because I'm not a douche that can't handle my car), and those damn cars were able to keep up with an older, built 911 race car with 325s in the rear. Guy could not get away from me and the R8s and other drivers could not keep up. They arrived at the stop 18 minutes after me and the other driver stopped. Reason why I point this out is that I don't trust the car well enough to go through the same motions without sliding out of the lane. That route is for skilled drivers and practically no traffic, ever. So it is appropriate for spirited and hard driving. I want to ensure the car is setup appropriately to handle it but I have zero confidence in its ability to do so at this time. Very disappointing as I bought the car specifically for the reason that I thought it would be able to hit that route with ease.

Here's another reference point... in the A4 and A6, I could stomp on the gas and make a left turn (somewhat wide turn) from a stop sign and be moving at almost 50mph upon straightening out. No loss of traction. Just the AWD system doing its thing and providing a little rear right wheel spin to push the car through (but not sliding!). The M340 C Drive with the staggered wheel setup oscillates in the same exact turn and while tuned, still cannot exceed 40mph in that same turn. The oscillations are only controlled by letting off the gas when I feel sliding, but barely.

So, in that context, my lowly A4 and heavy-ass A6 performed better in all metrics with semi-all-season tires vs. a vehicle that's setup for aggressive driving from the factory with far stickier tires. That, is fucking wild shit.

One last point.. A 911 I used to have had a staggered setup with MPSS all around (with 305s in the rear). I could fly in all weather at any time. Yes, even drove them in slushy snow a couple of times because it was my daily driver at the time. Grip was always to the max. Drove the tail of the dragon with that car many times and it never let me down regardless of weather. That was a manual gearbox with RWD only.

So. There it is. From one extreme to another. MPSS and AS3+ at the forefront. What's failing me and my driving style (which again isn't really that aggressive... just smooth which equates to fast), and in the middle is the PS4S which I just can't jive with.

I am happy that they are serving others very well. By no means am I trying to trash the tire. Perhaps it is a great tire and maybe there's something else that needs to be identified as the issue. And I believe that lies with the differential and the staggered setup on the M340. Which brings me to the idea that maybe a square setup would fix most, if not all the issues I'm experiencing since it is AWD, vice RWD.

That said, I am looking into a custom wheel set by LiteSpeed Wheels to maximize the amount of contact area I can get with the ground and move to a square setup. I'm going to start there and hopefully I can chime back in and agree with the rest of you that the PS4S really is the tire it is claimed to be.

Last edited by rostrata; 05-24-2021 at 11:22 AM..
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      05-24-2021, 11:10 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabrio Luv View Post
Just an article I was reading recently. May be of interest to some on here...

https://tflcar.com/2020/09/michelin-...rt-review/amp/
Read the article right after you posted it. Just forgot to put a nail in the coffin.

Quote from the author, "Applying the 80/20 rule

How often will a driver demand this much from a tire under street conditions? Maybe one percent during the life of the tire. Five percent if you’re one of the fortunate few to have a challenging and exciting route near your home. Otherwise, that extra shot in ride quality and comfort is appreciated a lot more than a smidgen less grip at the limit."

I despise the statement above. Let's look at it from a different perspective but apply the same logic. Let's say I'm a cop. I have a firearm which may never be used while on duty. Say, 0.00000009% of the time. But in that small fraction of time, it MUST work 100%. Otherwise, I'm staking my life on something that I guess I just don't need for that small fraction of time? Makes no sense whatsoever. The author is dead wrong in this case. Tires are lifesavers. A contact patch of only a few square inches on each tire, I better get exactly the performance I need, including complete road feel. Because road feel is the only thing that can tell you when you are pushing tires to the limits. Sacrificing road feel does NOT increase performance. It decreases performance and for any driver that actually hits those limits (whether it is 1% or 5% of the time (as assumed by the author) is truly missing out and may even reduce overall vehicle performance artificially and unnecessarily.

Another issue I have with the article is that he tries to say the PS4S beat out the PSS because he achieved a couple of tenths better lap time. I'm sorry but if the gap is smaller than 3/4 second, there's absolutely no way to determine that with any certainty. No driver can 100% reproduce a lap with all other things being equal. Mentioning it means he's trying very hard to sell it.

I also noted a couple of other "pros" the author cited. One in particular is the "patented velvet sidewall finish." Who gives a shit? Right at that point is where I lost faith that this was a review of tire performance.

Not trying to bash just to be in the right or stay in my little fantasy. But his logic sucked. Still open to the possibility. But I'm not convinced.

Last edited by rostrata; 05-24-2021 at 11:24 AM..
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