[DerekTriesG20]

Originally Posted by 2045

Efficiency is not what it's known for. Safety and versatility are.

I see.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by 2045

Efficiency is not what it's known for. Safety and versatility are.

I think CR test results say AWD helps to get the car moving from a dead stop, but does not help much on braking and steering, in inclement conditions. Instead CR recommends winter tires for FWD/RWD and even for AWD.

[DerekTriesG20]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

I think CR test results say AWD helps to get the car moving from a dead stop, but does not help much on braking and steering, in inclement conditions. Instead CR recommends winter tires for FWD/RWD and even for AWD.

Well, I mean I think you can't really overcome physics, winter tires rubber becomes soft below 7c and the opposite happens for summer tires.

[LarryMarcia]

Winter tires are always a positive for snow / ice conditions. All wheel drive helps a lot as well, and BMW's x drive is definitely good. Not as good as Subaru, but then again I don't think any manufacturer has an all wheel system as good as Subaru, although that may be the cause of Subaru's lousy MPG.

Anyway, this thread was meant to be about the 3 Series BMW versus the competition.

[DerekTriesG20]

Originally Posted by LarryMarcia

Winter tires are always a positive for snow / ice conditions. All wheel drive helps a lot as well, and BMW's x drive is definitely good. Not as good as Subaru, but then again I don't think any manufacturer has an all wheel system as good as Subaru, although that may be the cause of Subaru's lousy MPG.

Anyway, this thread was meant to be about the 3 Series BMW versus the competition.

Sorry about that. By the way OP, do you want comparison in only between German and Italian brands or kind of a stretch but compare Genesis?

Edit: What about Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, etc. as well?

[LarryMarcia]

The Japanese manufacturers also make some similar products, but I was basically comparing BMW, AUDI and MERC

[iulianm]

Not apples to apples but here I posted my ownership comparison between the Mazda3 and 3-Series.

The reason I'm mentioning it is that even C&D compared Mazda3 to Audi A4: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-2021-audi-a4/

[LarryMarcia]

Well, when comparing those 2, you can basically buy almost 2 Mazdas for the price of one Audi A4-45 or one BMW 330, but unless I had to have an extra car, the Audi or BMW would be the choice for me.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by iulianm

Not apples to apples but here I posted my ownership comparison between the Mazda3 and 3-Series.

The reason I'm mentioning it is that even C&D compared Mazda3 to Audi A4: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-2021-audi-a4/

I think Mazda 3 is closer to A3/230i than A4/330i. And Madza 3 top trim is almost $36k MSRP, so it does attempt to compete upmarket with premium brands.

My personal strategy is to target the base(volume) models of premium brands, at times they can be cheaper than top trims of econo brands.

[iulianm]

Yep, Mazda3 is closer to 1-Series and Audi A3 indeed, however as an owner I can only compare it with what I have.
Also for me the 3-Series after incentives was ~50% more then the Mazda3 after incentives.

Two weeks ago I sold the Mazda3 anyway but it had some clear advantages over the 3-Series that I mentioned such as steering feel and headlights and some minor details (stuff like mirror-down in reverse on both mirrors and passenger seat heating to turn on automatically linked to climate control).

I wanted to replace the Mazda3 with an X1 and I found even that one to have a better steering feel then my 3-Series which is vary vague off the center and more difficult to keep the car straight on the highway (even the Camry I rented last week I feel it had a better steering feel, leather and easier to keep the car straight on highway). Dynamically the 3-Series is of course well over the Camry but I'm just mentioning here my biggest issue with the the car and is this steering feel. (I don't have much experience with nicer cars but I really liked my Mk7 GTI with Performance Pack steering that had variable ratio).

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by iulianm

I wanted to replace the Mazda3 with an X1 and I found even that one to have a better steering feel then my 3-Series which is vary vague off the center and more difficult to keep the car straight on the highway (even the Camry I rented last week I feel it had a better steering feel, leather and easier to keep the car straight on highway). Dynamically the 3-Series is of course well over the Camry but I'm just mentioning here my biggest issue with the the car and is this steering feel. (I don't have much experience with nicer cars but I really liked my Mk7 GTI with Performance Pack steering that had variable ratio).

I did encounter the issue of G20's(or previously F30's) steering to be non-precise, but that is usually solved with increasing tire pressure to 36-38psi cold on 4 corners on my square setups.

[SLGrassoPA]

My personal opinion here - there is a significant steering issue in the 3 series (G20). It's definitely not a "pulling" or a "misalignment" or an air pressure issue. it keeps needing adjustments to keep the car going straight as it wonders - very slightly from left to right.

There are many professional reviews that found the same exact problem.

I've never heard of anyone fixing it by adjusting tire pressure.

What I experienced was something that was not intermittent. it happened every time I drove the car. it becomes kind of exhausting on a long drive. I can't say what others have experienced - but my guess is that it's in the engineering.

FYI -- This reviewer describes it best at 22:30 of the video

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1774603

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by SLGrassoPA

What I experienced was something that was not intermittent. it happened every time I drove the car. it becomes kind of exhausting on a long drive. I can't say what others have experienced - but my guess is that it's in the engineering.

FYI -- This reviewer describes it best at 22:30 of the video

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1774603

The video@22:30 started to talk about vague steering, but not constant adjustment that u mentioned.

One question for u is that, does the wondering occur with both hands on steering at all times, or is it with one hand/minimal contact?

I haven't experienced any constant adjustment issue, the steering points straight at straights, and points to where I want to go @cloverleafs/curves. The G20 EPS is surely not HPS of E39/E46 days, but it feels comfy and on point in 100-200+ miles non-stop so far.

[SLGrassoPA]

He goes on to say you have to keep giving steering inputs just to go straight.
That’s what I’m talking about.

I think all of the major auto publications have documented the same exact issue and there is thread after thread talking about the twitchy steering,
If your car doesn’t have it you are indeed lucky.

Many people it seems just get used to it.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by SLGrassoPA

He goes on to say you have to keep giving steering inputs just to go straight.
That’s what I’m talking about.

I think all of the major auto publications have documented the same exact issue and there is thread after thread talking about the twitchy steering,
If your car doesn’t have it you are indeed lucky.

Many people it seems just get used to it.

I think the reviewer says the numbness/vagueness induces constant input to go straights since the driver has no feedback of where the car is pointing at.

This issue is mainly related to EPS starting in E/F-series when EPS was introduced. My 2013 F30 did have numb/vague steering compared to E39 HPS, but it didn't take long to get used to(a few thousand miles?) as the driver can pick up clues from the chassis as well.

The G20 EPS is still somewhat numb/vague, but the stiff G20 chassis extra feedback that drivers can pick up, and after some miles(100k+ miles in my case starting from F30 EPS), I don't feel any issue in DD and non-track usage.b

[gillsp]

Weird, i drove a5 back to back twice and both times when i hit the gas padal I felt like I stepped wrong cuz it wasnt accelerating/responding until like 0.5 sec later wheN im in dynamic mode. I hated that.

[DerekTriesG20]

Originally Posted by gillsp

Weird, i drove a5 back to back twice and both times when i hit the gas padal I felt like I stepped wrong cuz it wasnt accelerating/responding until like 0.5 sec later wheN im in dynamic mode. I hated that.

Did it have the mild hybrid stuff yet or was it an older model year?

[SLGrassoPA]

EDMUNDS editor and senior testing manager says:

"The steering in this X3 leaves me with mixed feelings. I really enjoy driving around town thanks to its small dimensions, tight turning radius and overall maneuverability. On the highway it's a different story. The steering wheel is numb off-center. So after a short time on a straight road, with the steering wheel pointed dead-ahead, the car drifts slightly. It requires constant, small adjustments to keep the car in the middle of the lane. It happened often enough that I switched from Comfort to Sport mode, thinking the heavier steering setting might help. No such luck." — Mike Schmidt, senior manager, vehicle testing operations...

basically the same steering engineering across all 3 series.

Here is the link:

https://www.edmunds.com/bmw/x3/2022/...erm-road-test/

Car and Driver, Motor Trend, and Road & Track all report 3 series steering issues. Many just learn to live with the constant adjustments.

[Panscan340]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

I think the reviewer says the numbness/vagueness induces constant input to go straights since the driver has no feedback of where the car is pointing at.

This issue is mainly related to EPS starting in E/F-series when EPS was introduced. My 2013 F30 did have numb/vague steering compared to E39 HPS, but it didn't take long to get used to(a few thousand miles?) as the driver can pick up clues from the chassis as well.

The G20 EPS is still somewhat numb/vague, but the stiff G20 chassis extra feedback that drivers can pick up, and after some miles(100k+ miles in my case starting from F30 EPS), I don't feel any issue in DD and non-track usage.b

What does this even mean , you see where the car is going. If the car is driving straight, why would it need inputs?
The visual feedback you get from where the car is pointed is 100000x more significant than any steering feel through the wheel. It is baffling to me the stuff some auto journalists come up with.

[SLGrassoPA]

Panscan340 - you are definitely right.

PS -- ***** I think what Edmunds and the other professional review publications are talking about is basically about how the G20 3 Series drifts ever so slightly to the left and to the right while at highway speeds, requiring constant micro-corrections just to keep the car going straight. *****

[Panscan340]

Again idk what that means. If the car is properly aligned , the road is flat and nothing is mechanically wrong, the car should not drift. There is no mechanical basis or logical explanation for this finding.

[gillsp]

Originally Posted by DerekTriesG20

Did it have the mild hybrid stuff yet or was it an older model year?

both 2022