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      07-25-2019, 05:53 PM   #89
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Good job BMW.

You will remain the ultimate driving machine, because of your wise decision to save the manuals!

All hail the king!
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      07-25-2019, 06:36 PM   #90
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Long live the manual!!
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      07-25-2019, 07:08 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
It's declining for sure.

Don't forget M3 at the start and many generation was only offered with MT this is the legacy.....we don't want to lose yet.

If you know how to drive manual you would understand.
Knowing how to rev-match and when to shift is very enjoyable and satisfying to drive.
Perfectly said
I am got but no pro by any means and I love to drive MT for 15 years.
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      07-25-2019, 08:04 PM   #92
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A lot of new cars coming out with no manual options. The new C8 Vette, the Mustang GT500 and a slew of other performance cars. I think it could be a good position for BMW to be in. A lot of people who want a manual could be drawn to BMW who want a high end car.

Otherwise we will have just Mustang GTs and Mopars that have manuals as the death of the Camaro was just announced.

Dave
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      07-25-2019, 09:00 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSurfer View Post
So why would dealers spec them out?
Regardless of what dealers stock, I always order my cars because I prefer to do ED or PCD. I'm in South Carolina right now picking up my 2020 F82 tomorrow.
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      07-25-2019, 09:15 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray_Panther View Post
Oh snap!!!
Well I mean it's true. The RS 4 and RS 5 are the competitors to the M3/4.

Back in the early 2000s when there was no RS 4 the S4 was a M3 competitor but that was only for a generation and then the RS 4 was brought out.
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      07-25-2019, 11:03 PM   #95
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"MF: Manual is very important. The manual stick shift is not a performance-bringer, because an automatic transmission is just faster, you can ask any race driver. But it gives the vehicle character and I kind of compare it to people who love mechanical watches; it isn't more precise and it doesn't have any advantage at all but it's a character feature. So is a stick shift."

This statement makes me happy
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      07-26-2019, 12:08 AM   #96
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I have a M4 cs now but i do miss driving my 2018 m4 comp 6MT
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      07-26-2019, 02:21 AM   #97
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Porsche is still making manuals. =)

Not sure if it is true but I heard next Gen of boxsters/ Cayman’s will be naturally aspirated as well again. However, I’m hoping there will be more manual 911s on the market.

Love my F80 M3 but wish I did not get the DCT ugh...
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      07-26-2019, 10:18 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
You're trippin. BMW manuals are some of the best, along with Honda and Porsche.
Mazda makes a good one too - my buddy had one of their little SUVs as a beater, and it had a manual. That thing was awesome to shift - made an otherwise boring car a lot of fun to drive.
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      07-26-2019, 12:41 PM   #99
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New M3/4 will be bigger, heavier (though probably not as heavy as my E92), have electronic steering, fake exhaust noise, a massive grill...BUT...a manual gearbox option most won't take- Yay, pursuits rejoice!
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      07-26-2019, 03:51 PM   #100
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I wonder if this is in response to the new C8?
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      07-26-2019, 04:01 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanescent03 View Post
I track my cars so try not to tune them .. my F80 didn't like the JBwhatever when I was on the track ... but it felt like the 6MT needed the tune to feel as fast as a stock DCT F80. Power delivery I guess? I still had more fun in my 6MT than my DCT... my wife didn't even want to drive the DCT! lol... she's a total "sports cars need to be a manual" snob, far worse than me.

Anyways .. like many others, I'm super excited about this news! Special order here I come.
@wife wants manual lol

I was offering to buy my wife a certified
Passat SEL V6 all options

Had the dealer clean and prep car. I was ready to leave with the car.

I walk in with my wife, she opens the door stops dead in her tracks.

Looks at me �� "It's an automatic"
Walks out of the dealership ��
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      07-26-2019, 05:59 PM   #102
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BOOM, good news Friday!!!

The car is still going to have to be as beautiful as the F8x series, with no stupid huge grills (I guess the Lexus tail lights are going to be a given though). It also better not start at $90k or whatever, needs to be close price wise to the C8 to get my interest!
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      07-27-2019, 03:58 PM   #103
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Definetely amazing news. Nothing connects man and machine like a stick shift.
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      07-30-2019, 10:06 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRtoE92 View Post
I have a M4 cs now but i do miss driving my 2018 m4 comp 6MT
I knew someone would admit it. I really wanted the car but had this sinking feeling I'd miss the MT. So I ended up getting another M4 MT after my first lease was up. I should have just bought the damn car oh wellz. Hope the new one doesn't look like a turd :/
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      08-11-2019, 07:55 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
A lot of new cars coming out with no manual options. The new C8 Vette, the Mustang GT500 and a slew of other performance cars. I think it could be a good position for BMW to be in. A lot of people who want a manual could be drawn to BMW who want a high end car.

Otherwise we will have just Mustang GTs and Mopars that have manuals as the death of the Camaro was just announced.

Dave
Sorry, I must have missed that with all the mid engine hype. The new Corvette will not have a manual??
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      08-11-2019, 08:10 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takumi587 View Post
Porsche is still making manuals. =)

Not sure if it is true but I heard next Gen of boxsters/ Cayman’s will be naturally aspirated as well again. However, I’m hoping there will be more manual 911s on the market.

Love my F80 M3 but wish I did not get the DCT ugh...
Video of a technical walkthrough of the new GT4. At 5:48 Andreas Preuninger (Director of GT division?) articulates why manuals remain an important part of the driving experience for some and espouses Porsche's philosophy on PDK vs manual. Essentially its about giving the customer the choice!



Its clear to me now that Porsche remains most committed to the enthusiast driving experience and they have seen their competitions brand strategy and have cleverly positioned theirs to avoid some of the pitfalls. GT4/Spyder with N/A engines and 6MT? And word that the regular 718/Boxsters may go back to NA? Call me a dreamer but I'm even hoping they'll find some way, even if it is electrical/computerized trickery, to get the manual gearbox into an electric 911. Because they're Porsche and thats what they do

Hopefully new M3/M4 brings the customer closer to the enthusiast experience than the opposite.
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      08-11-2019, 12:12 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky1 View Post
Its clear to me now that Porsche remains most committed to the enthusiast driving experience and they have seen their competitions brand strategy and have cleverly positioned theirs to avoid some of the pitfalls. GT4/Spyder with N/A engines and 6MT? And word that the regular 718/Boxsters may go back to NA? Call me a dreamer but I'm even hoping they'll find some way, even if it is electrical/computerized trickery, to get the manual gearbox into an electric 911. Because they're Porsche and thats what they do

Hopefully new M3/M4 brings the customer closer to the enthusiast experience than the opposite.
That's also because Porsche needs that solid sports car image to survive in the rather competitive mid range between supercars and M/AMG/RS.

Look how much shit they have got from customers and reviewers alike by introducing an uninspiring flat-4 turbo engine on 718.

We should push M to make again real sports cars with MTs and automated manuals, not the comfortable automatic grocery getters.
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      08-11-2019, 12:36 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
A lot of new cars coming out with no manual options. The new C8 Vette, the Mustang GT500 and a slew of other performance cars. I think it could be a good position for BMW to be in. A lot of people who want a manual could be drawn to BMW who want a high end car.

Otherwise we will have just Mustang GTs and Mopars that have manuals as the death of the Camaro was just announced.

Dave
Sorry, I must have missed that with all the mid engine hype. The new Corvette will not have a manual??
Automatic only. GM said the take rate of the manual was over 50% when the C7 was introduced in 2014 but it has fallen to less than 20%. GM said they could justify the engineering, development, testing, tuning, and certification costs for a manual with such a low take rate.
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      08-11-2019, 01:06 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnEnglish View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
A lot of new cars coming out with no manual options. The new C8 Vette, the Mustang GT500 and a slew of other performance cars. I think it could be a good position for BMW to be in. A lot of people who want a manual could be drawn to BMW who want a high end car.

Otherwise we will have just Mustang GTs and Mopars that have manuals as the death of the Camaro was just announced.

Dave
Sorry, I must have missed that with all the mid engine hype. The new Corvette will not have a manual??
Automatic only. GM said the take rate of the manual was over 50% when the C7 was introduced in 2014 but it has fallen to less than 20%. GM said they could justify the engineering, development, testing, tuning, and certification costs for a manual with such a low take rate.
There won't be a traditional manual but the DCT could potentially be used for a stick shift ... I'm speculating a lot but it seems like a "stick by wire" kind of idea. Same transmission but different application. Cool tech if they can make it feel realistic... just like electronic steering had gotten better and even acceptable to most people, this could be a nice way to keep the third pedal alive.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/mid-...-shift-theory/
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      08-11-2019, 03:45 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanescent03 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnEnglish View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
A lot of new cars coming out with no manual options. The new C8 Vette, the Mustang GT500 and a slew of other performance cars. I think it could be a good position for BMW to be in. A lot of people who want a manual could be drawn to BMW who want a high end car.

Otherwise we will have just Mustang GTs and Mopars that have manuals as the death of the Camaro was just announced.

Dave
Sorry, I must have missed that with all the mid engine hype. The new Corvette will not have a manual??
Automatic only. GM said the take rate of the manual was over 50% when the C7 was introduced in 2014 but it has fallen to less than 20%. GM said they could justify the engineering, development, testing, tuning, and certification costs for a manual with such a low take rate.
There won't be a traditional manual but the DCT could potentially be used for a stick shift ... I'm speculating a lot but it seems like a "stick by wire" kind of idea. Same transmission but different application. Cool tech if they can make it feel realistic... just like electronic steering had gotten better and even acceptable to most people, this could be a nice way to keep the third pedal alive.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/mid-...-shift-theory/
Could but highly doubtful. The chief engineer said in the same interview that changing the DCT to a "manual by wire" would still require separate testing, tuning, and certification and it would be "really hard to justify the costs".
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