01-14-2020, 11:15 AM | #111 | |
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2) now to your payment. Unless, you are not telling something, like down payment or multiple MSDs or whatever, the monthly payment of $658 is not possible, therefore, I suggested you to go to banking industry and pull that magic over there and make tons of cash!!! MSRP: $69,000 Sales Price: $62,000 (10% discount) Rebates: $3000 Residual: 60% ($41,400) over 36 months Interest Rate/MF: 0.00177 (doubt you can get less than this, but you are a magician...) Destination fee and Dealer Fees: $1,100 Illinois Sales Tax: 6.25% Calculation: Selling Price: $62,000 Capped Fees: 1100 Rebates: 3000 Net Cap Cost: $60,125 60,125 - 41,400 = 28,700. $18.7k/36 months = $520/month Monthly Interest: $180 Monthly Tax: 56 Payment: $755/month I wonder how you got to $658? |
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01-14-2020, 11:22 AM | #112 | |
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Similarly, on the $62,500 with assumed 10% off ($56,250 sales price) and additional 3k rebates -- your payment with taxes in MA is $680/month, not below $600. The residual and minimum MF is published. Again, I doubt MANY people are getting 10% off from the get go in this economy and while BMW sales are doing quite OK lately. |
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01-14-2020, 11:31 AM | #113 | |
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MSRP: $68,970 Sale Price: $62,100 (10% discount) Incentives: $2k loyalty; $1k lease cash Adjusted Cap Cost: $59,100 Monthly Payment: $658 (including tax) Drive-Off Amount: $ 6,013 (7 MSD-$4,900 + 1st month payment-$658 + Fees-$455) Months: 36 Annual Mileage: 12,000 MF (before MSD's): 0.00128 Residual:60% I think you're confusing "quite often" to mean "most". I'm by no means saying most. For every 1 person that gets 10% off, there are likely 10 that pay close to MSRP. But to suggest that it's not really possible and that BMW (Again, the dealers do the discount, BMW only offers incentives) is not doing that at this point simply means you haven't done any research. Further, dealers have what's called a "hold back" amount, below invoice, which is a cash amount awarded to the dealer for each sale of a new car by BMW. This hold back amount represents 2-3% below invoice. So even at 10%, the dealer isn't really "losing money". Beyond that, volume dealers are in it for the cash bonus provided by BMW as incentive for meeting a sales quota, so if that means they take a few low to 0 margin sales here and there to hit that quota, they are more than willing to do so. Doesn't take a magician to get 10% off pre-incentive with buy-rate money factor. Just takes a bit of effort and excellent credit. I emailed 21 dealerships across the midwest, majority of which thought I was crazy for asking that much off. However the 2-3 high volumes dealers that were willing to play ball.... I had them bid against each other for my business, and I went with the best offer. You should check out Leasehackr. Here's the calculation to my payment: leasehackr.com/calculator?make=BMW&miles=12000&msd=7&msrp=68970&s ales_price=62073&months=36&mf=.00128&dp=0&dealer_f ee=85&acq_fee=925&taxed_inc=3000&untaxed_inc=0&reb ate=0&resP=60®_fee=400&sales_tax=7.25&demo_mile age=0&memo=&monthlyTax_radio=true
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01-14-2020, 04:52 PM | #114 | |
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S D !!!! Missed to mention that little detail.... As I mentioned, impossible to get to that number without that.... I am done with that one |
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01-14-2020, 07:13 PM | #115 | |
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If I had put that amount down as a downpayment, my monthly payment would have been ~$541, however my effective cost of leasing would have been $24,376 (($541*36)+$4,900). With MSD's, my effective cost of leasing is $23,688 ($658*36). Think of MSD's as a guaranteed ~8.5% annual rate of return on investment. Even without them my payment would be ~$695/month. Just remove the MSD's on the calculator. Remember, the 0.00128 MF I received is pre-MSD, meaning my MF after MSD's was 0.00093.
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01-14-2020, 07:58 PM | #116 |
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Lol, don't waste your breath. I got 13% off, well a fellow member got that deal for me back in August on my M340i. If I was getting my car now, I would have saved even more because MF is much lower than they were back in August. Of course there are still dealers who will not entertain 10%. I couldn't find a decent discount in South Florida so I started dealing with a PA dealer who offered 11% off at the time. In the end, I got 13% off before incentives from a dealer in TX and I had about 3k in incentives that was also applied to my deal. My deal also includes max MSD.
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01-14-2020, 09:48 PM | #117 | |
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My payment of $850 on F80 (almost fully loaded) with ZERO down and ZERO MSDs is not much higher from the equivalently equipped G20 with nothing up front. I understand how the MSD stuff works and it is beneficial but with risks — if you ever want to transfer your lease, you most likely lose it. If you total your car, you will lose it... The bottom line is, your payment is lower because you used MSDs. You also could have done it with the down payment and then sell the car at the end of the lease and get some or all of it back... |
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01-14-2020, 09:52 PM | #118 | |
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They overpriced the 3-series realizing that they cannot sell the vehicle at that price - it is not worth that and competition is not far behind or even ahead to claim that price. So, let us sell it way below invoice price. Not even Honda is doing anything close to that... |
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01-14-2020, 11:25 PM | #119 | |
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Buying out and then selling the car at the end of the lease is typically not a good idea when it comes to BMW, with their inflated residual values. There's an $11k difference in MSRP between your "almost fully loaded" F80 and my fully loaded G20, so I wouldn't exactly call that "almost the same amount". In regards to MSD's, as I mentioned before, even without MSD's my payment comes to ~$695/month which is a significant $155/month lower than yours.
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01-15-2020, 06:41 AM | #120 |
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It's a hopeless argument and this happens every new 3 series generation.
Generally, the second-tier engined 3 series comes very close to the prior generation M3, and the prior generation M3 owners parade around the forum claiming that there is no way the new 3 series can hold a candle to their M3 in terms of performance or payment. It's happened with the E46 M3 vs. E92 335, E92 M3 and F30 340 (less close with this comparison, but probably one of many reasons that the F30 was a not-so-great 3 series), and now the F80 M3 and G20 M340. It's called progress and it's nothing new to BMW or the automative industry. |
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01-15-2020, 07:47 AM | #121 | |
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Everything is different from M to a non-M vehicle. I thought it was not as significant until I owned one after multiple non-M cars. Also, the residual on my car was 64% (as I recall) which made the monthly payment even closer without all amazing discounts that you received. |
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01-15-2020, 07:55 AM | #122 | |
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I would not say "it cannot hold the candle" but, I would say it is still a significantly different vehicle But, my point was that with the progress, they made a significant "progress" on price too, and according to the posters above, they are all getting 10%+ off MSRP from multiple dealers. Something is not right there, no way that in 2006/07 you could get that discount on the e90 335i, or 7 years later on the F30. |
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01-15-2020, 08:03 AM | #123 | ||
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01-15-2020, 08:13 AM | #124 | ||
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01-16-2020, 05:51 AM | #125 |
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Out of the blue, after loosing every comparison, C&D has the 330 as a winner in their February 2020 issue comparison! Didn’t see this one coming from them.
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01-19-2020, 01:19 AM | #127 |
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Well I finally got around to driving the Giulia today. Overall very unimpressed.
Positives: styling, chassis/fast steering rack. No modern EPS steering will match the weight/tightness/feedback of our beloved E90s and E46s, but this car's steering was extremely quick. Negatives: everything else. Even with extended leather pkg the interior is lackluster. Once you start touching and pushing on things the true lack of quality shows. Stuff shakes, wobbles, and makes cheap noises. Even a 2006 BMW 325i has a nicer cabin. The infotainment system is as sad as it gets. Then you have the dealership experience...every Alfa/Maserati dealer feels like an old Chrylser showroom that's been dressed up. Overall this car is a very difficult purchase to justify and sales reflect that. Once you are used to the quality and attention to detail of a German automobile it's hard to settle for this level of mediocrity. It's sad because BMW used to straddle that sport-luxury line so well but has drifted so far off to the latter. If the G20 had steering closer to that of the Giulia I'd be sold. Instead, I'm thinking of just holding onto my current DD for an extra year and saving up to get directly into an M2 or Boxster. None of these modern luxury sport sedans really cut it!
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12-20-2020, 08:39 AM | #128 |
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I had an 18 Giulia Quadrifoglio for 1 year. First 11 months it only died 1 time - came out in the morning and car was dead - put battery on trickle then no issues.
Then at 11.5 months, the car would just "stall out" with no warning. First time I was in a parking garage blocking the entrance!! On a Sunday night. And you cannot put the car into neutral without a specialized tool. Oh, and good luck getting any customer service from Alfa or a towtruck, none of them would touch an Italian sports car with a 10 foot pole. Luckily, the car would restart after sitting for 2 hours. LOL. Dealer reset codes and wrote it off as a "fluke". Then a week later, in a left hand turn lane of a busy intersection, car just DIES. Dead. My kids are in the car. On a Sunday evening 95 and hot out. Alfa customer service useless, cannot get a towtruck out, which is useless anyways since they will not touch this car. Of course after sitting for 2 hours, the car will finally turn over. Dealer has not clue and will not replace parts. Tells me they think it was the gas? I only use Shell Premium in my cars. Dealer and Alfa customer service totally useless, and don't give a crap TBH. Their idea of going "above and beyond" was they gave me a Dodge Charger rental car with 35k miles on it. I traded my Alfa in for an M2. I was nervous as hell that the car would die on the way to the dealer. Or it would stall out while they were on their test drive. LOL. Took a little bit of a hit but I was desperate to dump it as fast as possible. It was my only car at the time, and I was in another state for 3 weeks due to relocation. So I'm in another state, with 1 car, and its an Alfa that will die at any time, with no notice. I knew Alfa reliability could be an issue, but it has a warranty. However in my 25 years of car ownership I've never had to deal with a car that just dies with no notice. What if you're on the highway in the left lane? These cars can be dangerous. No way in heck I'm coming close to another Alfa nor would I recommend one to anybody I know. Its too bad because the QV driving experience is amazing. It crushes the M3 and makes my M2 feel like driving a Jetta. The suspension and steering working together are magical, you feel the car moving with you on winding roads with elevation changes. Go into a turn fast, you feel the suspension movement, changing, then planting itself to gain traction on the way out. Of course is fast as hell in a straight line, but driving the QF in the twisties is magical. And the car is always moving with you, even driving slow, so much feel its amazing. You feel like you are driving "in the road" not "on the road". The M3 and M2 feel like 1 solid piece of solid granite, lacking feel... cannot compare if you care about driving feel kinda stuff not 0-60 times. Alfa interior was a step above F30 other than the infotainment. I thought the F30 was a terrible generation of 3. QV brakes were horrible at low speeds. No idea how they released the car with those brakes on it lol. I'm back with a G20 330i as a daily and 18 R8 for sports car. I feel like BMW realized they went soft on the F30 and stepped up their game on the G20. R8 does not have the QV driving feel but exotic with V10 provides a different type of experience. I never once doubt my German cars will start or stall out in a busy intersection, kids school line, or when I need to get to an important work meeting. My heart loves Italian cars like the Maserati GTS, F430 but my brain always has me back to German since I have zero tolerance for cars dying out or spending stupid $$$$ on repairs. This Alfa was my trial into the Italian car ownership, and its just not for me. No time for the fluky character.
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