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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions M340i vs G70 3.3T Sport Comparo. Hits 3.8s 0-60 in Instrumented Test

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      10-28-2019, 02:03 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
I don't know, some really good cars come out of the "disrupters" the first generation Lexus IS and the third/fourth generation G35/37 were pretty good Japanese Sport Sedans. The G in particular was close to stepping on BMW's toes back in the day. Sadly now though, neither brand makes anything as compelling. I see the G70 as a great replacement for those who might have owned an IS or G in the past.
I have to ask truly out of curiosity. You've been posting and commenting about that Kia since day 1.
Why do you care so much about it, you've got the best BMW car currently made M2 Comp and a very respectable MB. Who the f cares about some Kia that's trying to break in somewhere it doesn't belong.
This thread, which I created is LITERALLY titled G70 vs 3-Series, so, I'm going to discuss the G70 and 3-Series. I'm sure you can see, there are many posts here about each vehicle. This may be a BMW forum, but the forum is allowed to discuss other vehicles, and comparisons, as you'll find numerous similar threads on each series' forums.

As someone who has had direct experience in comparing the G70 and 3-Series (as well as to the Giulia and C43 in another thread I posted), I am free to post my opinions of the G70, and thought that they would be interesting/contributing to the conversation. My opinion of the car is positive, which even though it may upset you, that I think that Genesis may have made a great 3-Series competitor, I don't see why you have to get upset by it. Yes I am happy with my vehicles, but I can talk about the G70 all I want. It is just a single opinion of a single poster. I am not forcing you to buy a Genesis, all I am saying is that they've made a good product, that it is similar to the first IS and older G35/37 which would be considered "disrupters" when they first came into the market, which was mainly dominated by the Germans.

There is always an unsubscribe button, and you have the choice of not reading through the thread, if don't like the discussion of Hyundai, Kia, and Genesis.

Also no offense, but its the car market, brands are allowed to diverge into other segments if they please, Hyundai is just following in similar footsteps of what Toyota, Honda, VW and Acura did years ago
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      10-28-2019, 02:08 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
This thread, which I created is LITERALLY titled G70 vs 3-Series, so, I'm going to discuss the G70 and 3-Series. I'm sure you can see, there are many posts here about each vehicle. This may be a BMW forum, but the forum is allowed to discuss other vehicles, and comparisons, as you'll find numerous similar threads on each series' forums.

As someone who has had direct experience in comparing the G70 and 3-Series (as well as to the Giulia and C43 in another thread I posted), I am free to post my opinions of the G70, and thought that they would be interesting/contributing to the conversation. My opinion of the car is positive, which even though it may upset you, that I think that Genesis may have made a great 3-Series competitor, I don't see why you have to get upset by it. Yes I am happy with my vehicles, but I can talk about the G70 all I want. It is just a single opinion of a single poster. I am not forcing you to buy a Genesis, all I am saying is that they've made a good product, that it is similar to the first IS and older G35/37 which would be considered "disrupters" when they first came into the market, which was mainly dominated by the Germans.

There is always an unsubscribe button, and you have the choice of not reading through the thread, if don't like the discussion of Hyundai, Kia, and Genesis.

Also no offense, but its the car market, brands are allowed to diverge into other segments if they please, Hyundai is just following in similar footsteps of what Toyota, Honda, VW and Acura did years ago
I think you took my post too personally. Of course you can post all you want about whatever you want.
I was just curious why you were so interested in Kia since you've posted about it a lot previously. That's all.
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      10-28-2019, 02:18 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by 6MTFTMFW View Post
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Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
This thread, which I created is LITERALLY titled G70 vs 3-Series, so, I'm going to discuss the G70 and 3-Series. I'm sure you can see, there are many posts here about each vehicle. This may be a BMW forum, but the forum is allowed to discuss other vehicles, and comparisons, as you'll find numerous similar threads on each series' forums.

As someone who has had direct experience in comparing the G70 and 3-Series (as well as to the Giulia and C43 in another thread I posted), I am free to post my opinions of the G70, and thought that they would be interesting/contributing to the conversation. My opinion of the car is positive, which even though it may upset you, that I think that Genesis may have made a great 3-Series competitor, I don't see why you have to get upset by it. Yes I am happy with my vehicles, but I can talk about the G70 all I want. It is just a single opinion of a single poster. I am not forcing you to buy a Genesis, all I am saying is that they've made a good product, that it is similar to the first IS and older G35/37 which would be considered "disrupters" when they first came into the market, which was mainly dominated by the Germans.

There is always an unsubscribe button, and you have the choice of not reading through the thread, if don't like the discussion of Hyundai, Kia, and Genesis.

Also no offense, but its the car market, brands are allowed to diverge into other segments if they please, Hyundai is just following in similar footsteps of what Toyota, Honda, VW and Acura did years ago
I think you took my post too personally. Of course you can post all you want about whatever you want.
I was just curious why you were so interested in Kia since you've posted about it a lot previously. That's all.
Sorry if I took it too personally.

I find the Genesis (not Kia, even if they are under the same parent group) interesting vehicle as its a vehicle that I particularly enjoyed in my drive, and also the beginning of Albert Biernman's work of vehicles in Genesis since he left BMW, and I'm curious to see what he does next - maybe a high performance G70?

I'm more interested in why people are so stuck up on not giving this vehicle a chance, and why they act like its the end of the world, especially when I know a good portion of people who have posted negatively about it haven't driven it. The past is the past, and things have changed greatly since Hyundai's beginnings. Is it better than a G20, no, but it is 90% there in the driving experience, while still offering great value (which some buyers do care about) and most likely good reliability.

Are there problems/negatives? Yes, dealers, the transmission and engine are good but not as good as the BMW or Mercedes (Audi, Lexus, and Infiniti's latest offerings are honestly worse), and brand image. The valet program solves the first issue, and ignore the lack of "prestige" the badge has and you can enjoy a good car.
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      10-28-2019, 02:37 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Sorry if I took it too personally.

I find the Genesis (not Kia, even if they are under the same parent group) interesting vehicle as its a vehicle that I particularly enjoyed in my drive, and also the beginning of Albert Biernman's work of vehicles in Genesis since he left BMW, and I'm curious to see what he does next - maybe a high performance G70?

I'm more interested in why people are so stuck up on not giving this vehicle a chance, and why they act like its the end of the world, especially when I know a good portion of people who have posted negatively about it haven't driven it. The past is the past, and things have changed greatly since Hyundai's beginnings. Is it better than a G20, no, but it is 90% there in the driving experience, while still offering great value (which some buyers do care about) and most likely good reliability.

Are there problems/negatives? Yes, dealers, the transmission and engine are good but not as good as the BMW or Mercedes (Audi, Lexus, and Infiniti's latest offerings are honestly worse), and brand image. The valet program solves the first issue, and ignore the lack of "prestige" the badge has and you can enjoy a good car.
Sure no problem. Well I can't answer for everyone but I'm used to paying for things what they're worth in my, albeit twisted, mind.
50K for BMW all day long, 50K for Genesis - no way.
Sorry just like I wouldn't pay for MIC shoes the same money as Alden's just like I wouldn't pay Blancapain's money for Invicta, and so on on and so forth.
Good try, it may drive better, it may fly like a freaking flying saucer. I'm not paying BMW money for a Kia.
That's just it for me. In my own personal opinion. No hard feelings to each is own, YMMV, etc etc.
Call it a brand whore, brand snob, whatever. Not happening. If they made this in the Camry Accord price range I'd be the first screaming attaboy Kia.
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      10-28-2019, 06:23 PM   #159
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I think there are a lot of car enthusiasts who are excited for good new cars. They don't care about brand allegiances or status symbols or showing off. They just like cars and they get excited when exciting new cars are made. At the very least, if a company like Genesis makes a competitive car, that will make the Germans do better. Remember the Lexus LS and Infiniti G35? They made the Germans do better. That's a good thing for brand loyalists and more general enthusiasts alike.
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      10-30-2019, 02:59 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by 6MTFTMFW View Post
Sure no problem. Well I can't answer for everyone but I'm used to paying for things what they're worth in my, albeit twisted, mind.
50K for BMW all day long, 50K for Genesis - no way.
Sorry just like I wouldn't pay for MIC shoes the same money as Alden's just like I wouldn't pay Blancapain's money for Invicta, and so on on and so forth.
Good try, it may drive better, it may fly like a freaking flying saucer. I'm not paying BMW money for a Kia.
That's just it for me. In my own personal opinion. No hard feelings to each is own, YMMV, etc etc.
Call it a brand whore, brand snob, whatever. Not happening. If they made this in the Camry Accord price range I'd be the first screaming attaboy Kia.
You are welcome to your opinion, and I own a BMW, not a Genesis, so I certainly seem to feel the same way. BUT, your comment missed the mark. $50,000 gets you a damn near stripped "three series". But it gets you a totally loaded G30 that has not only everything $60,000+ 3 has, but it gets you things that are not even available on a 3, such as ventilated seats, NAPA leather, and a power adjustable steering wheel.

If you are going to say $50,000 BMW, then you need to say $$38,000 G70. I have not looked it up, but I'm pretty sure that's about the price point for a G70 comparable to a 3 series.

Being totally honest, if the G70 came from a brand....virtually any brand other than Hyundai, it's the car we all would be buying. The real truth is that most car enthusiasts are also car snobs. I'm not a snob otherwise, but I can dam sure admit I'm a bit of a car snob.
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      10-30-2019, 04:31 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6MTFTMFW View Post
Sure no problem. Well I can't answer for everyone but I'm used to paying for things what they're worth in my, albeit twisted, mind.
50K for BMW all day long, 50K for Genesis - no way.
Sorry just like I wouldn't pay for MIC shoes the same money as Alden's just like I wouldn't pay Blancapain's money for Invicta, and so on on and so forth.
Good try, it may drive better, it may fly like a freaking flying saucer. I'm not paying BMW money for a Kia.
That's just it for me. In my own personal opinion. No hard feelings to each is own, YMMV, etc etc.
Call it a brand whore, brand snob, whatever. Not happening. If they made this in the Camry Accord price range I'd be the first screaming attaboy Kia.
You are welcome to your opinion, and I own a BMW, not a Genesis, so I certainly seem to feel the same way. BUT, your comment missed the mark. $50,000 gets you a damn near stripped "three series". But it gets you a totally loaded G30 that has not only everything $60,000+ 3 has, but it gets you things that are not even available on a 3, such as ventilated seats, NAPA leather, and a power adjustable steering wheel.

If you are going to say $50,000 BMW, then you need to say $$38,000 G70. I have not looked it up, but I'm pretty sure that's about the price point for a G70 comparable to a 3 series.

Being totally honest, if the G70 came from a brand....virtually any brand other than Hyundai, it's the car we all would be buying. The real truth is that most car enthusiasts are also car snobs. I'm not a snob otherwise, but I can dam sure admit I'm a bit of a car snob.
People like that clearly value the badge more than the car. It's why you see a lot of people stretching to buy cars like the 320 when they could get much more practicality and utility from an Accord for the same price.
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      10-30-2019, 04:55 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by jjscsix View Post
You are welcome to your opinion, and I own a BMW, not a Genesis, so I certainly seem to feel the same way. BUT, your comment missed the mark. $50,000 gets you a damn near stripped "three series". But it gets you a totally loaded G30 that has not only everything $60,000+ 3 has, but it gets you things that are not even available on a 3, such as ventilated seats, NAPA leather, and a power adjustable steering wheel.

If you are going to say $50,000 BMW, then you need to say $$38,000 G70. I have not looked it up, but I'm pretty sure that's about the price point for a G70 comparable to a 3 series.

Being totally honest, if the G70 came from a brand....virtually any brand other than Hyundai, it's the car we all would be buying. The real truth is that most car enthusiasts are also car snobs. I'm not a snob otherwise, but I can dam sure admit I'm a bit of a car snob.
You missed my point sticking to a number
Ok, 60K for BMW no problem, 38K for a Kia I'll take a Camry v6 XLE
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      10-30-2019, 09:43 PM   #163
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This thread has run its course, who knew so many members here are Genesis fanboys. You will never see this on the Genesis forums, they're busy talking about their cars and figuring out the tranny issues they and MT's longterm tester are having. Genesis buyers aren't interested in the Bimmer and vice versa. So there's no need to continuously extol the 3.3T values here. We know what the car is and those who didn't found out from this thread.

Some of us have even driven the 3.3T already and still chose the M340i so it's pointless trying to dissuade us as to why the Genesis might have been a better fit.
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      10-30-2019, 09:55 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6MTFTMFW View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Sorry if I took it too personally.

I find the Genesis (not Kia, even if they are under the same parent group) interesting vehicle as its a vehicle that I particularly enjoyed in my drive, and also the beginning of Albert Biernman's work of vehicles in Genesis since he left BMW, and I'm curious to see what he does next - maybe a high performance G70?

I'm more interested in why people are so stuck up on not giving this vehicle a chance, and why they act like its the end of the world, especially when I know a good portion of people who have posted negatively about it haven't driven it. The past is the past, and things have changed greatly since Hyundai's beginnings. Is it better than a G20, no, but it is 90% there in the driving experience, while still offering great value (which some buyers do care about) and most likely good reliability.

Are there problems/negatives? Yes, dealers, the transmission and engine are good but not as good as the BMW or Mercedes (Audi, Lexus, and Infiniti's latest offerings are honestly worse), and brand image. The valet program solves the first issue, and ignore the lack of "prestige" the badge has and you can enjoy a good car.
Sure no problem. Well I can't answer for everyone but I'm used to paying for things what they're worth in my, albeit twisted, mind.
50K for BMW all day long, 50K for Genesis - no way.
Sorry just like I wouldn't pay for MIC shoes the same money as Alden's just like I wouldn't pay Blancapain's money for Invicta, and so on on and so forth.
Good try, it may drive better, it may fly like a freaking flying saucer. I'm not paying BMW money for a Kia.
That's just it for me. In my own personal opinion. No hard feelings to each is own, YMMV, etc etc.
Call it a brand whore, brand snob, whatever. Not happening. If they made this in the Camry Accord price range I'd be the first screaming attaboy Kia.
Off topic, speaking of MIC and Alden, check out Grant Stone think you would be pleasantly surprised.

And if you look for something dressy (less chunky), check out Yeossal's house brand (also MIC, though I suppose its own top of the line is Antonio Meccarillo which IMO is just as good if not better than Edward Green/Gaziano Girling), handwelt, hand last, tight waist
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      10-30-2019, 10:14 PM   #165
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Haha, really bud, as good as EG and G&G, never heard of them. I know good dress shoes that are not pricey is usually something from Spain or even Portugal ala Carlos Santos or Carmina. Usually anything cheaper is garbage and not endorsed by us over at SF.
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      10-31-2019, 06:45 AM   #166
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Haha, really bud, as good as EG and G&G, never heard of them. I know good dress shoes that are not pricey is usually something from Spain or even Portugal ala Carlos Santos or Carmina. Usually anything cheaper is garbage and not endorsed by us over at SF.
Not saying the Yeossal house brand MIC stuff as good as EG/GG... was another off topic saying Antonio Meccariello is (which is Italian so different aesethic to English, but not the Santoni kind of Italian)...

Oh and if you're on SF check out Yeossal's thread

price wise the Yeossal's MIC house brand is more expensive than Carmina mainline..., haven't bought CJ in a long time, though if you could get CJ UK pricing, it's probably priced somewhere between CJ mainline and Handgrade.

Only handwelt comparison in that range ish is Enzo Bonafre (sp?) and Vass. If you ask me EB skimp on leather (how they can do HW at that price range) while Vass has more of a chunkier stitching (stitch per inch wise).
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      10-31-2019, 05:19 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doccyber View Post
Let's not forget that G70 was launched in 2017. So
It's 2 model years behind from G20
3 series. As such it was marketed as a competitor to the F30. Now once The new G70 comes out in the next 2 years I'm sure it will have more power, better quality interior and the difference as compared to current G20 BMW will be even smaller. I
They didn't begin selling it in most markets late 2018 or so. I figure that's a null point. In Korea (where I hear pretty much everyone has Korean car loyalty), it might be a 2-3 year old model, but for much of the world it's 1-2 years at most and entered it's life at the same time as the new A4, the new 3 series, and the mid cycle c class. The average person isn't going to think "this new car is showing it's age because it started production 2-3 years ago." They're going to think "this brand new Genesis doesn't really compete with the Germans or Lexus, but it is much cheaper."

Last edited by Ristau; 10-31-2019 at 05:23 PM.. Reason: adding info
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      11-04-2019, 02:57 PM   #168
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They didn't begin selling it in most markets late 2018 or so. I figure that's a null point. In Korea (where I hear pretty much everyone has Korean car loyalty), it might be a 2-3 year old model, but for much of the world it's 1-2 years at most and entered it's life at the same time as the new A4, the new 3 series, and the mid cycle c class. The average person isn't going to think "this new car is showing it's age because it started production 2-3 years ago." They're going to think "this brand new Genesis doesn't really compete with the Germans or Lexus, but it is much cheaper."
The Genesis brand just became available this year here in California because Hyundai dealerships previously were not accredited as official Genesis dealers. Which brings me to my main point: I've shopped Hyundai on a few occasions in the past and couldn't figure out if I should respond with fight or flight to some of the salesman's slime-ball tactics. I wouldn't be satisfied buying, owning, and doing maintenance through a Hyundai dealership. There's a reason all the other luxury nameplates have a separate dealership network from their non-luxury counterparts.
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      11-04-2019, 04:41 PM   #169
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Quote:
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You missed my point sticking to a number
Ok, 60K for BMW no problem, 38K for a Kia I'll take a Camry v6 XLE
I... drove the Camry V6 XLE / Accord 2.0 Sport

Even the base Genesis 2.0 would be a lot ahead of them in terms of handling and pretty much even on acceleration. 3.3T? It blows past them by far.

38K would enable you to get an base 3.3t Genesis. (or Stinger GT for that matter) and as a Stinger GT2 owner... I could tell you how good this car is. At the time that the G70 was going on sale, it was the F30 3 series for the BMW. G70 would be on top vs those models, which is an amazing feat by Hyundai. Got to give them the credit on that.

CANNOT compare a camry against a Genesis, which is even sharper than the Stinger on the road. It is that good. G70 comes pretty close the the current G20 3 series.

For the money, Genesis DOES make the argument of M340i vs G70. Its a 90% of the car for about 12-15K less
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      11-05-2019, 02:56 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StingerGT2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6MTFTMFW View Post
You missed my point sticking to a number
Ok, 60K for BMW no problem, 38K for a Kia I'll take a Camry v6 XLE
I... drove the Camry V6 XLE / Accord 2.0 Sport

Even the base Genesis 2.0 would be a lot ahead of them in terms of handling and pretty much even on acceleration. 3.3T? It blows past them by far.

38K would enable you to get an base 3.3t Genesis. (or Stinger GT for that matter) and as a Stinger GT2 owner... I could tell you how good this car is. At the time that the G70 was going on sale, it was the F30 3 series for the BMW. G70 would be on top vs those models, which is an amazing feat by Hyundai. Got to give them the credit on that.

CANNOT compare a camry against a Genesis, which is even sharper than the Stinger on the road. It is that good. G70 comes pretty close the the current G20 3 series.

For the money, Genesis DOES make the argument of M340i vs G70. Its a 90% of the car for about 12-15K less
The g70 is a value, at least going strictly by listed msrp. The same can be said of the stinger. Even though I criticized the review that was the subject of this thread, I'm glad that genesis and kia have bothered to focus on bringing two formidable sports sedans to the market instead of yet another ugly, clunky suv appliance. We do well to remember this, because they did enthusiasts a favor by giving us more options for a fair price, and introducing more competition into the segment we care about. Had it not been for the g70, stinger, Alfa, and other alternatives in the luxury sports sedan segment, the g20 3 series might not have been such an improvement over the f30.

Also, anyone who compares a Camry to any car in this segment is just talking trash. Either that or they've never driven a Camry or a car in this segment. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with the Camry. It's excellent at what it's meant to be, but it's not designed for car enthusiasts.
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      11-05-2019, 03:39 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Giggler View Post
The Genesis brand just became available this year here in California because Hyundai dealerships previously were not accredited as official Genesis dealers. Which brings me to my main point: I've shopped Hyundai on a few occasions in the past and couldn't figure out if I should respond with fight or flight to some of the salesman's slime-ball tactics. I wouldn't be satisfied buying, owning, and doing maintenance through a Hyundai dealership. There's a reason all the other luxury nameplates have a separate dealership network from their non-luxury counterparts.
Exactly my point. Most Kia/Huidai dealers were set up as bad credit alternative to Accord/Camry/Civic/Corolla. The mentality and the level of customer service hasn't changed. "you're lucky you drove off in a new car" is the mentality.
Not paying 38k or whatever that genesis costs.
And come on guys let's not go down the enthusiast lane
BMW only makes 3 enthusiast cars M2/M3/M4
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      11-05-2019, 07:50 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by 6MTFTMFW View Post
.
And come on guys let's not go down the enthusiast lane
BMW only makes 3 enthusiast cars M2/M3/M4
This is plain rubbish, so you're saying the G70 3.3T, C43 AMG, S5 etc are not enthusiasts cars, that's bullocks, of course they are. There's a reason why these cars are not popular on the street. It's because the target demographics are enthusiasts and we are a small populace, these cars are not built for the mainstream.

The 3er will always be an enthusiast car, Genesis is nowhere near that realm and likely never will. There' s so much aftermarket support, car clubs etc for these cars. The 3er is more of an enthusiast car than all it's direct competitors, that's a fact.
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      11-05-2019, 08:20 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by SROC3 View Post
True. If I had my way I'd have no BMWs right now.

Range Rover + Panamera Turbo + Porsche GT2 RS + Ferrari 458 + R8 V10
Poor guy driving an X3 those are very nice grocery getters I looked at both the X3M Competition & X4M Comp when I drove my 2020 M340xi.

All are nice but not comparable to any of the exotics and semi-exotics
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      11-05-2019, 08:27 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by AlphaM View Post
The truth is even if the G70 was as fast/good as the bimmer, people would still choose the bimmer simply because it's a bimmer (brand prestige).
Luxury today unfortunately is dictated by how expensive and unattainable things are.
In some cases you get what you pay for but most of the time you pay just for the brand name, not because your product is great.
If you know about cars then you know that Genesis makes really really good cars, i know because i used to own the first generation of genesis cars (hyundai genesis) and it was one of the best cars i owned and currently own a G90 (another fantastic car).
Genesis is trying to build a name for themselves and just the fact that they are comparing the G70 with a 3 series or the G90 against the S class it just shows you how good the Genesis brand is.
Mark my words the day will come when the Genesis cars will be at the same level as bimmers and mercs or even better and that day is closing in very quickly.
For me, There's zero point in spending more than double the money to get a 7 series or S class, my G90 is a fantastic car just as is the G70 but you will have to overcome the fact that it does not have the brand prestige that bimmers or mercs have.....just yet. But just wait.
I think it might be a bit of a stretch to say they will be on the same level for a Hyundai as BMW or Mercedes Benz..You lost me there at the end
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      11-06-2019, 12:27 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
This is plain rubbish, so you're saying the G70 3.3T, C43 AMG, S5 etc are not enthusiasts cars, that's bullocks, of course they are. There's a reason why these cars are not popular on the street. It's because the target demographics are enthusiasts and we are a small populace, these cars are not built for the mainstream.

The 3er will always be an enthusiast car, Genesis is nowhere near that realm and likely never will. There' s so much aftermarket support, car clubs etc for these cars. The 3er is more of an enthusiast car than all it's direct competitors, that's a fact.
No what I'm saying is that the only enthusiast cars BMW makes are M2/m3/m4.
340 with a newly baked M badge in front of it and Automatic only is not an enthusiast car but more of a main stream sedan.
C43 AMG, S5 are not popular on the street because they're too expensive and especially too expensive for a C class and A4 with 2 doors class. Not because they're for enthusiasts.

I would argue g70 with 6MT is made purely for the enthusiasts. However I don't want a Kia that's all.
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      11-06-2019, 02:50 PM   #176
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I disagree manual tranny is not a prerequisite. Besides soon you won't get manuals on M cars too. Nowhere is an enthusiast car defined as cars that only has manual transmission. Now if for you that's how you see it, that's a personal perspective. I believe there's a corolla that can still be had with manual today yet nobody would consider a Corolla an enthusiast car. C43 is same price point as M340i so that explanation is nonsense as well.
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