[Evinrude1975]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Good points. Come to think of it, was the same way for the F80/82 M3CS/M4CS. I remember looking at those when we bought our F80 comp and couldn’t make sense of the $30k+ premium. All I could tell was that it had some alcantara and a modified hood. And the depreciation on those cars matches the F80.

Putting all the features together, the M3 CS is still a good deal and I’m positively sure it will hold the value better than a comp. But it won’t go down in history. I think The M5 CS is going to be more appreciated.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Evinrude1975

Putting all the features together, the M3 CS is still a good deal and I’m positively sure it will hold the value better than a comp. But it won’t go down in history. I think The M5 CS is going to be more appreciated.

Appreciate the candor from an actual owner, thanks.

I look at where BMW is today and look at where they were 12 years ago when I bought my first one and was utterly disappointed in what they were and I think man, they really have righted the ship in the last 10 years.

I have been a fan of BMW for literally decades. My dad nearly bought an E28 5 series back in the mid-80's and I've been "hanging around" the brand ever since. He ended up buying one eventually in the mid-90's, but by then I had already experienced a buddy's E30 325 and just fell madly in love with the BMW ethos. It didn't hurt that the local dealer was also one of the premier Ferrari dealers in the US as well....

....so imagine my shock when my first BMW, an F10 535i with ALL the goodies, turned out to be an utter steaming turd. That thing had less sporting pretension than any BMW I'd driven...and that had DHP! When I had some base F30 3 series loaners during the many, MANY times that car was in the shop I was utterly shocked at how far away the cars felt from an E46 or E90. Suddenly BMW was introducing automatic countersteering from the EPS to compensate for crosswinds. Uh, WTF? Ultimate Driving Machine or Ultimate Luxury Machine? The more F chassis cars I drove, the more I realized that the base cars were so soft, so luxury oriented that the M cars that sat on them had to work SO hard to overcome that pile of crap they were based on that they were overly stiff, numb, spiky and just undesirable. I tested many used F10 M5's, including a manual, and really, REALLY tried hard to buy an F80 but I just couldn't.

Now I am putting my money where my mouth is because BMW has regained the plot. The G20 Platform is VASTLY improved dynamically and the G8X on top of it is really a masterclass of dynamics especially given the fact that they are really 5-10% heavier than they really ought to be. Yeah, they went in a styling direction I STILL am not in love with, but I mean...just look at what they do.

BMW, I think, is trying a little TOO hard to overcome the damage that the F platform cars did to it's reputation. So the cars are VERY aggressive looking and the CS is no exception with a lot of unnecessarily fussy design details. Being cliched, it's all a bit too fast and furious to be truly timeless. As Harry Metcalfe said in his video, look at the competition that Evo just tested it against - the Alfa Guilia GTA and the Jag Project 8. Both of those will look stunning in 20 years. The BMW will look angry, unnecessarily.

But get away from that. Get away from the polarizing looks and the slightly over the top from factory graphics and underneath is a 4 door car, that can take your whole family on holiday and RUNS 10s. And while the steering isn't the most communicative ever, boy can it apparently dance.

So yeah, while I think this car is overshadowed by the F90 CS (which having experienced that car as a passenger on the Nurburgring I think is deserving of every single accolade thrown at it) I think it's a damn good effort. And it's way easier to peel off the Graphics and the red striping than it is to re-engineer the chassis.

[Evinrude1975]

The Alfa GTA is around $250k and the JAG project 8 is close to $350k. IMHO it’s really hard to justify the extra cost.

[GhostOne_322]

Originally Posted by NotSharocks

Your CSL is 3,640 lbs.

I'm not surprised the CS is 310 lbs heavier, it's a bigger car.

The damn car is the size of a 5 series LOL.

Having sold my F90 Comp for the M3 CS I can tell you full stop that the 5 is way heavier and larger than the 3. Even if the exterior dimensions are marginally different, you can't escape the massive weight of the M5 Comp and the feeling of that weight transfer in the M5 Comp when simply changing lanes.

And you do not feel any of that weight transfer feeling in the G80 M3 CS... Not sure how the G80 M3 Comps feel but they're only 20-30lbs heavier than the CS...

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Evinrude1975

The Alfa GTA is around $250k and the JAG project 8 is close to $350k. IMHO it’s really hard to justify the extra cost.

True. The Alfa has always been a bit dear. The Project 8 could have been had for the same price as a CS a few years ago before the market went silly, so I do think the comparison is applicable. There are no real apples to apples comparison in this segment, so it gets tough. Sedans are a dying breed, high performance sedans more so and nice versions of THOSE even more so. My point was more about looks than being actual performance rivals.

Nonetheless while I don't see the M3 CS going down in the all time annals as having the same cache as the M5 CS, I think we will look back quite fondly in a decade or so when everything has a battery on it. That's why instead of replacing my 997 Turbo with a Taycan I'm getting an M3. In 7-10 years, it'll be the last of a dying breed.

[Evinrude1975]

To be clear. My M3 CS is an amazing car. It feels so light and responsive… and it’s insanely fast. Even a bad driver (as I am) can see the potential of this car. If somebody wants to park in his garage a future classic the M2 CS manual is the right choice, but I won’t be surprised if the M3 grill design will be appreciated in the next 15 years. That being said, a stock M3 base manual with low mileage is going to be a very desirable car.

[MNoob]

Originally Posted by GhostOne_322

you can't escape the massive weight of the M5 Comp and the feeling of that weight transfer in the M5 Comp when simply changing lanes

This 100%. M5C is an amazing car. A beast off the line and sticks like Velcro in sweepers, but agility is not it’s thing.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by MNoob

This 100%. M5C is an amazing car. A beast off the line and sticks like Velcro in sweepers, but agility is not it’s thing.

You'd be surprised. No, it's not "agile" like a light car but she can dance!

[MNoob]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

You'd be surprised. No, it's not "agile" like a light car but she can dance!

Mine danced more like Elaine 🤣

Edit: if you get this schedule your colonoscopy.

[edwinm3]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

There is an overabundance of "Michelin or die" types on this board. They bit the marketing hype hard. It's weird.

they just don’t know any better

[Berzerker]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

There is an overabundance of "Michelin or die" types on this board. They bit the marketing hype hard. It's weird.

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

They last longer a tad longer but sacrifice performance for it. And that's assuming that they don't chunk badly on the shoulders halfway through their life, something Michelin is notorious for.

Originally Posted by edwinm3

they just don’t know any better

Just because people acknowledge PS4Ss being the best tire on the market doesn't mean there's a "Michelin or die" mindset on the forums. A full set for an M car is not a small amount of money for people to consider at least trying the P Zeros on their car for a bit before making a decision. I personally have P Zeros and don't feel the need to change, but if I need a new set for any reason? I'm sure as hell going for PS4Ss.

They are objectively the best tire on the market, both for longevity and performance and I have no idea why you think they "sacrifice performance" for anything. "They don't know any better" just sounds like someone who doesn't have the tire and is trying to justify the fact they don't to themselves.

To think that there are any tires better (obviously leaving actual track tires out of the equation) is just being purposefully ignorant for no reason.

There are absolutely some tires in recent times that have come incredibly close to being on par or dethroning them, P Zeros are one of them, the newer Conti ECS 02s being another, but they're not better than PS4Ss.

What there is an overabundance of here is people thinking they know more than facts and people's agreements and just like to be contrarian for no reason.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by Berzerker

Just because people acknowledge PS4Ss being the best tire on the market doesn't mean there's a "Michelin or die" mindset on the forums. A full set for an M car is not a small amount of money for people to consider at least trying the P Zeros on their car for a bit before making a decision. I personally have P Zeros and don't feel the need to change, but if I need a new set for any reason? I'm sure as hell going for PS4Ss.

They are objectively the best tire on the market, both for longevity and performance and I have no idea why you think they "sacrifice performance" for anything. "They don't know any better" just sounds like someone who doesn't have the tire and is trying to justify the fact they don't to themselves.

To think that there are any tires better (obviously leaving actual track tires out of the equation) is just being purposefully ignorant for no reason.

There are absolutely some tires in recent times that have come incredibly close to being on par or dethroning them, P Zeros are one of them, the newer Conti ECS 02s being another, but they're not better than PS4Ss.

What there is an overabundance of here is people thinking they know more than facts and people's agreements and just like to be contrarian for no reason.

Cool, enjoy your new set of PS4Ss!

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Appreciate the candor from an actual owner, thanks.

I look at where BMW is today and look at where they were 12 years ago when I bought my first one and was utterly disappointed in what they were and I think man, they really have righted the ship in the last 10 years.

I have been a fan of BMW for literally decades. My dad nearly bought an E28 5 series back in the mid-80's and I've been "hanging around" the brand ever since. He ended up buying one eventually in the mid-90's, but by then I had already experienced a buddy's E30 325 and just fell madly in love with the BMW ethos. It didn't hurt that the local dealer was also one of the premier Ferrari dealers in the US as well....

....so imagine my shock when my first BMW, an F10 535i with ALL the goodies, turned out to be an utter steaming turd. That thing had less sporting pretension than any BMW I'd driven...and that had DHP! When I had some base F30 3 series loaners during the many, MANY times that car was in the shop I was utterly shocked at how far away the cars felt from an E46 or E90. Suddenly BMW was introducing automatic countersteering from the EPS to compensate for crosswinds. Uh, WTF? Ultimate Driving Machine or Ultimate Luxury Machine? The more F chassis cars I drove, the more I realized that the base cars were so soft, so luxury oriented that the M cars that sat on them had to work SO hard to overcome that pile of crap they were based on that they were overly stiff, numb, spiky and just undesirable. I tested many used F10 M5's, including a manual, and really, REALLY tried hard to buy an F80 but I just couldn't.

Now I am putting my money where my mouth is because BMW has regained the plot. The G20 Platform is VASTLY improved dynamically and the G8X on top of it is really a masterclass of dynamics especially given the fact that they are really 5-10% heavier than they really ought to be. Yeah, they went in a styling direction I STILL am not in love with, but I mean...just look at what they do.

BMW, I think, is trying a little TOO hard to overcome the damage that the F platform cars did to it's reputation. So the cars are VERY aggressive looking and the CS is no exception with a lot of unnecessarily fussy design details. Being cliched, it's all a bit too fast and furious to be truly timeless. As Harry Metcalfe said in his video, look at the competition that Evo just tested it against - the Alfa Guilia GTA and the Jag Project 8. Both of those will look stunning in 20 years. The BMW will look angry, unnecessarily.

But get away from that. Get away from the polarizing looks and the slightly over the top from factory graphics and underneath is a 4 door car, that can take your whole family on holiday and RUNS 10s. And while the steering isn't the most communicative ever, boy can it apparently dance.

So yeah, while I think this car is overshadowed by the F90 CS (which having experienced that car as a passenger on the Nurburgring I think is deserving of every single accolade thrown at it) I think it's a damn good effort. And it's way easier to peel off the Graphics and the red striping than it is to re-engineer the chassis.

Spot on, although I'm not convinced the F8x did damage to the M reputation if I read you correctly - obviously the F87 is a very loved edition esp in CS form. You probably meant the M3 variants. But in fact the F80 had some things about it that I didn't like, but the G8x was a very strong response - inflamed by the antagonism of Elon's Model 3 performance. Did the M division appreciate getting beat around a track by a Tesla, and being called out in particular by Elon Musk and Top Gear etc.

BMW probably had planned for years that the G8x platform would be the best performing car ever produced in the M3 lineup... but I'm saying they threw everything into it to win. And in the process, I do think the more agile M2 became a more desirable option for many. Both are very successful and moreso than their predecessors.

Remember this?

[gnx]

Originally Posted by GhostOne_322

Having sold my F90 Comp for the M3 CS I can tell you full stop that the 5 is way heavier and larger than the 3. Even if the exterior dimensions are marginally different, you can't escape the massive weight of the M5 Comp and the feeling of that weight transfer in the M5 Comp when simply changing lanes.

And you do not feel any of that weight transfer feeling in the G80 M3 CS... Not sure how the G80 M3 Comps feel but they're only 20-30lbs heavier than the CS...

Minimal weight difference between standard and CS model, yes, even though this is an M4 comp figure.

Also M5 CS weight is almost equal to M5 Comp, contrary to popular belief.

[gnx]

Data

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Yup, that's why I bought it!

Modern day e39 M5...except much better handling and performance. And for less money to boot, adjusted for inflation.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Berzerker

Just because people acknowledge PS4Ss being the best tire on the market doesn't mean there's a "Michelin or die" mindset on the forums. A full set for an M car is not a small amount of money for people to consider at least trying the P Zeros on their car for a bit before making a decision. I personally have P Zeros and don't feel the need to change, but if I need a new set for any reason? I'm sure as hell going for PS4Ss.

They are objectively the best tire on the market, both for longevity and performance and I have no idea why you think they "sacrifice performance" for anything. "They don't know any better" just sounds like someone who doesn't have the tire and is trying to justify the fact they don't to themselves.

To think that there are any tires better (obviously leaving actual track tires out of the equation) is just being purposefully ignorant for no reason.

There are absolutely some tires in recent times that have come incredibly close to being on par or dethroning them, P Zeros are one of them, the newer Conti ECS 02s being another, but they're not better than PS4Ss.

What there is an overabundance of here is people thinking they know more than facts and people's agreements and just like to be contrarian for no reason.

My prefered tire is always a Michelin. That being said, I did have Pirellis on some of my 911s and they were fine. Both my 718 GT4s had the Dunlops over the Michelins, and to be honest, the Dunlop was better on track and held up better too.

My G80 M3 had the Michelins and now my G80 M3 xdrive has the Pirellis. Other than the slightly different sidewalls, there is not much here to say one is unequivocally better than the other. Would I have prefered the Michelins, sure, but I can't complain about the Pirellis and really doubt I'd complain if I got Continentals since they also are great.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

My prefered tire is always a Michelin. That being said, I did have Pirellis on some of my 911s and they were fine. Both my 718 GT4s had the Dunlops over the Michelins, and to be honest, the Dunlop was better on track and held up better too.

My G80 M3 had the Michelins and now my G80 M3 xdrive has the Pirellis. Other than the slightly different sidewalls, there is not much here to say one is unequivocally better than the other. Would I have prefered the Michelins, sure, but I can't complain about the Pirellis and really doubt I'd complain if I got Continentals since they also are great.

Agreed. In my experience Pirellis wear out more quickly.

[GhostOne_322]

Originally Posted by MNoob

Mine danced more like Elaine 🤣

Edit: if you get this schedule your colonoscopy.

I've had two colonoscopies already! And as a previous owner of an F90, I can wholeheartedly agree with the Elaine comparison!

G80 is no Fred Astaire either, more Savion Glover!!

[GhostOne_322]

Originally Posted by gnx

Minimal weight difference between standard and CS model, yes, even though this is an M4 comp figure.

Also M5 CS weight is almost equal to M5 Comp, contrary to popular belief.

24 M3 CS - 3,915lbs
22 M5 CS - 4,114lbs
F90 M5 Comp - 4,370lbs

My analogy was F90 Comp to M3 CS and felt that 455lb difference the minute I drove off in the M3.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Agreed. In my experience Pirellis wear out more quickly.

That does tend to be true. I had ~14K miles on my G80 M3 before I sold and still had 6 mm of tread. The Pirellis I would imagine would be another mm of wear over the Michelins.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by GhostOne_322

24 M3 CS - 3,915lbs
22 M5 CS - 4,114lbs
F90 M5 Comp - 4,370lbs

My analogy was F90 Comp to M3 CS and felt that 455lb difference the minute I drove off in the M3.

The M5 CS was considerably lighter than the F90/Comp. The M3 CS doesnt seen to follow that trend - 39 lbs is negligible at best over the M3 xdrive. That had to be as expected since the CS CF hood and center console are a few pounds at best. Most likely comes from the exhaust.