['Cane]

Originally Posted by jetblackcoupe

Out of curiosity, is this switch to non-German engine production something that has been announced or speculation?

https://gprivate.com/69r4w

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Not a good thing, but I doubt M anything is going to be made outside of Germany.

Well considering numerous M models are built in the USA and Mexico, I don't think thats entirely true.

The S58 motor is made both in Germany and Austria however that could soon change w the recent annoucements.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Not a good thing, but I doubt M anything is going to be made outside of Germany.

The M SUVs have been made in South Carolina from day one.

[madpistol]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

The M SUVs have been made in South Carolina from day one.

Yes, but the powertrain is still built in Germany.

[SwankPeRFection]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

The M SUVs have been made in South Carolina from day one.

SUV being the operative term…

[a1gio2]

Does it really matter? Machines build these motors, they aren't hand built. What difference does it make?

[/ / / M3]

Originally Posted by a1gio2

Does it really matter? Machines build these motors, they aren't hand built. What difference does it make?

Some of those machines look remarkably humanoid.

[SwankPeRFection]

Originally Posted by / / / M3

Some of those machines look remarkably humanoid.

\/\/estworld bro! 🙄😂

[JohnEnglish]

If the specifications are the same and the quality control is the same, does it matter where the engines are built?

[kgelfen360]

Originally Posted by JohnEnglish

If the specifications are the same and the quality control is the same, does it matter where the engines are built?

I think the concern is what will happen is what happened with Boeing. Bad culture people who don’t love the product. Just do it mindlessly u know.

[JohnEnglish]

Originally Posted by kgelfen360

I think the concern is what will happen is what happened with Boeing. Bad culture people who don’t love the product. Just do it mindlessly u know.

That can happen anywhere regardless of where the engine is assembled; hence my qualifications of “if the the specifications and quality control remain the same.” Boeing started chasing the bottom line at the expense of quality. With BMW looking to move engine production to cheaper locations (let’s face it, they’re not moving engine production to somewhere they’ll cost more to produce) cost savings are obviously a driving force.

[kgelfen360]

Originally Posted by JohnEnglish

That can happen anywhere regardless of where the engine is assembled; hence my qualifications of “if the the specifications and quality control remain the same.” Boeing started chasing the bottom line at the expense of quality. With BMW looking to move engine production to cheaper locations (let’s face it, they’re not moving engine production to somewhere they’ll cost more to produce) cost savings are obviously a driving force.

So what I said…. It’s a concern…

[SwankPeRFection]

Too bad you’re not going to see that cost savings, so why compromise on things then if there’s no benefit to the end consumer? Why should the consumer compromise for the sake of the company’s gain? No. Like it or not, American made stuff isn’t really the same quality unless it’s made by people who care and who are enthusiasts. This is why key boutique producers make better products in this country than big business does… eventually big business loosens the quality control for the same savings sake and great becomes just ok.

[JohnEnglish]

Originally Posted by kgelfen360

So what I said…. It’s a concern…

Cost cutting can happen regardless of the location. Moving production location isn’t a concern to me. I’d only become concerned if we see quality issue staring to pop up across the board due to cost cutting.

[JohnEnglish]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Too bad you’re not going to see that cost savings, so why compromise on things then if there’s no benefit to the end consumer? Why should the consumer compromise for the sake of the company’s gain? No. Like it or not, American made stuff isn’t really the same quality unless it’s made by people who care and who are enthusiasts. This is why key boutique producers make better products in this country than big business does… eventually big business loosens the quality control for the same savings sake and great becomes just ok.

Well yeah, cost savings are hardly ever passed only. Personally, I don’t care where most stuff is made. As long as it’s made well is all I care. I have lots of stuff that’s made in China and it’s of fantastic quality. I also have a lot of stuff that’s garbage. It all depends on how the manufacturer has specced things and if they’re running proper quality control. Engines made in German could become hot garbage if BMW decided to cut back on quality control.

[geko29]

The M3/M4 are still built in Germany, so it's not in any way clear why BMW would build the S58 in America, export it to Germany, build the cars and ship them back. As opposed to building the engines in say, Austria, which is what they're actually doing.

The S58 was already being built in Austria for export to the US, this move just expands that production. See below an X3M window sticker for reference:

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by JohnEnglish

If the specifications are the same and the quality control is the same, does it matter where the engines are built?

The quality control is often not the same though. VW products when they moved plants to Mexico were a complete disaster. So much that VW was able to charge a premium on "Wolfsburg" editions made in Germany. There still is a tangible difference in quality between the BMW SUVs made in South Carolina and the BMW products made in Germany. The gap has reduced over the years but the BMW SUVs (which were all assembled in S Carolina) were absolute quality disasters too when they were introduced.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by geko29

The M3/M4 are still built in Germany, so it's not in any way clear why BMW would build the S58 in America, export it to Germany, build the cars and ship them back. As opposed to building the engines in say, Austria, which is what they're actually doing.

The S58 was already being built in Austria for export to the US, this move just expands that production. See below an X3M window sticker for reference:

Why not? They assemble engines in Germany, ship them to South Carolina and ship the final assembled M SUVs back to Germany already. Its all about where concentration of buyers at the final destination are for the final assembly.

[SwankPeRFection]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

Why not? They assemble engines in Germany, ship them to South Carolina and ship the final assembled M SUVs back to Germany already. Its all about where concentration of buyers at the final destination are for the final assembly.

The “stay at home rich mommy” isn’t buying the M SUV because of its performance aspect, she’s asking for it because it’s the most expensive on the lot and looks good to her (aka, how she looks in it). On the contrary, M3 and M4 cars are being bought more by people who actually know what the car is and want it for the performance factor and enjoyment than any other reason. They can keep the shoddy quality in the SUVs if they want to.

[geko29]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

Why not? They assemble engines in Germany, ship them to South Carolina and ship the final assembled M SUVs back to Germany already. Its all about where concentration of buyers at the final destination are for the final assembly.

Actually they don't, as I noted they were already building the engines for the X3M/X4M in Austria.

As you note, most of the SUV buyers are in the US, so it saves them money to do assembly for them in SC, even if it means incurring shipping costs for the much smaller subset of European-bound SUVs

But assembling engines in the US is not going to be significantly cheaper than in Germany/Austria, so they'd be taking on 2-way shipping costs (components into US, completed engines out) for 100% of non-SUV engine production, and (per the concerns in this thread) potentially lowering quality for no upside. That's what I was getting at.