[khailuan]

Originally Posted by Just a 3

On the contrary, you should be thanking enthusiasts like us (and Bimmerpost) for criticizing what we felt was BMW going away from being the ultimate driving machine - and BMW trying to go back to UDM roots with the G20. If not for us, you'd be driving a quicker Lexus - but having read your post, I don't think you'd have noticed.

Regardless of your misinterpretations I don't need to insult you to respond to you.

1. Let me clarify that i'm pointing out only the G20 whiners, not the enthusiasts and not Bimmerpost as a whole. One can be an enthusiast and not necessarily criticize the G20 for its size and steering because they most probably understand that BMW wants to develop different segments (4 door series, response to competition and customer complaints to lack of rear legroom) and has to embrace progress and technological advancements ie: electronic steering.

2. I admit that the F30 deserved mass criticism for its steering and driving pleasure but anyone who's driven a BMW prior to the F30 can point that out. It's not like BMW never realized they can do better than the F30.

That being said, based on current info so far I think BMW seems to have made major improvements over the last gen 3 series. I'm cautiously optimistic about it but I'll wait for reviews.

[khailuan]

Originally Posted by Tracus

True, I wouldn't say that is not good. How could I do that if I did not drive it yet?
But based on the looks, is not good for me. Fair?

Absolutely fair.

[khailuan]

Originally Posted by TodmordenLad

I'll reserve judgement until I've test driven the 6 cyl petrol version - then I'll be able to compare it with my current 440i with MPPSK and original RFTs, which is pretty woeful in the steering and suspension departments, as compared with BMW's of old.
BMWs which i have owned have become increasingly comfortable and compliant over the years in line with global demand and taste and I'd be very surprised if BMW has really made the G20 a hardcore enthusiast's machine in response to feedback from us enthusiasts. After all, they have the M cars for that market.
The G20 will probably drive a bit better than the F30 but I'll wager not by a significant margin. At the end of the day, they have global sales to worry about. Most drivers probably wouldn't notice the fact that the chassis is 50% stiffer or whatever than the outgoing model in everyday driving. Myself included, possibly

Couldn't have worded it better.

[hans007]

Originally Posted by khailuan

Quick thoughts:

Sometimes I wonder if the G20 whiners are real BMW fans.
When did it become "cool" to hate your favorite car brands' products?
Has this become a basher's forum?
Enough with the lexus rear end comparisons. Most of you wouldn't even buy one for its performance nor its driving dynamics since they're all inferior to BMW.
If you can't stop lamenting how BMW's new models can't compare to its cars (E30, E46 and E90) of the past then maybe you should stay in the past.
Times have changed and cars will too.
Do you think a company would revert back to its previous generation's technology such as isntalling hydraulic steering to replace electronic in new cars? Perhaps this generation's steering is not quite as good (tbd) but at least they're improving it constantly and eventually they'll get there.
You can't stop progress and companies certainly won't go backwards.
Stats have shown that people have grown in height and weight over the years.
It's logical for the 3 series to grow as well to a certain extent but they also have to look at what the competition does. Besides, it needs to make room for the upcoming 4 door 2 series to compete with the A3/S3 and CLA which BMW has missed out on this segment. Lastly, a recurrent complaint of the F30 was poor rear legroom.
So what if it's slightly larger and a tad heavier. It offers so much more in terms of technology, comfort, road composure with advanced differential and dampers. It obliterates the previous generations on performance. Also, its structure rigidity are said to be much improved.
It's baffling to me that people think they're cool by pointing out immaterial and subjective negative areas while they choose not to mention all the other improvements the car has over its previous generations. I sure wouldn't miss the waterpump failure and fuel pump problem in my E90. Yes the steering was more precise but I sure don't miss its stiffness and that unforgiving suspension with the slightest road imperfection. I also don't miss that backseat where no one can fit.
BMW will continue to make luxury cars and aim to reclaim its #1 crown. It will do so by ensuring its new 3 series will appeal to the massive market of luxury segment buyers and not by yielding to the BMW purists or enthusiasts. BMW has already thrown them a bone with the M2. So shut up, get an M2 or stay in the past.

Theres a difference between casual fans and well intelligent discourse about your fandom.

Its basically the same as sports teams. Laker fans.... theres like the fans who know nothing about basketball who are just Laker fans, and then there are the people who intelligently discuss the team what they'd like the team to do etc.

The only real difference is with cars most people aren't "fans til they die" as much like sports. People switch brands much more easily to what they want.

I had an F30 and like BMW. I like that BMW as a company still does care more about driving than say Audi / Mercedes etc , enough to put on things like the ultimate driving events. They went a little too soft with the F30 and I'm really looking forward to the G20.

I'm not one of those "bmw has lost its way" people, but I do remember my dad's friend giving me the keys to an E46 sport 325i coupe and a E46 330i sedan back when I was 20 and in college. They were fun to drive, especially the 325i which had the sport pack.
A roomate had an E46 m3. It KILLED my then new G35 coupe as far as refinement while still being sporty. I've driven a few e90s too.... I think the G20 is going in the right direction and maybe the F30 was just a "kinda got lost for a bit" but maybe they'll find their way again.

I don't expect another E46 given BMW can only control so much (crash standards, gas milage regulations etc they can only do so much about). I don't think every car has to be the exact same as the e46 (I kind of welcome the larger size honestly, I had to sit in the back of a friend's E46 sedan a lot after college and my knee hurt from the lack of space...), but I am optimistic that the G20 is a step at least back in the right direction.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by hans007

I'm not one of those "bmw has lost its way" people, but I do remember my dad's friend giving me the keys to an E46 sport 325i coupe and a E46 330i sedan back when I was 20 and in college. They were fun to drive, especially the 325i which had the sport pack.

Neither am I, I'm more a "BMW is feeling its way" guy.

The reason I say that, when the F30 was first released I was impressed with my first test drive in a 328i. I was driving an E91 at the time, I really thought BMW had done a good job with the car. My Dealer Principal, a car enthusiast, (been with BMW for decades), viewed the F30 as the biggest advancement he'd ever seen in a new model range. Was fulfilling what customers wanted. Strange world isn't it, when some customers get what they want and others don't? It is why I say "BMW is feeling its way".

BTW, get what you mean about the older cars. I remember driving an E30 323i we had when new, compared to a more mature E28 528i. Still have fond memories of business trips in the E30, enjoying every drive.

[kooper]

Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel

They're nothing alike? Seriously?

Look at this rear 3/4 view. The side profile and the rear end are almost identical.





The main difference is the grille and front fascia. Which I admit is enough to make the car look different, but it's really just the front. It's easy to mistake an LCI E90 for an F30 for non-owners.



There is a much bigger difference between the F30 and G30 than there is between the E90 and F30.

I don't know, maybe I've seen them too many times, but I'm not seeing them being identical at all.
To my eye, yes, there are themes that are similar on both, as they should be. The kidneys, the kink, the headlights and taillights, etc., but the interpretation of those themes were significantly different.

I'm not arguing with you either, just sharing my take on it. And I agree, the styling from F30 to G20 appears to have taken a bigger step than from E90 to F30.

The biggest step to me personally was the E30 to E36. Both were obviously 3 Series, but the E36 just seemed like a major evolution when I first laid eyes on it.

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by monte03carlo

Most would say that Porsche has done a great job transitioning to electric steering.
Your right the chassis is ok but I should've said suspension.

yes we are going to have to see what damper magic theyve implemented for the suspension
the xtra supports in the front should aid with steering stability
but damper magic will have to resolve the xtra vibrations not absorbed by the s tiffer chassis
I believe I read their new damper system is adjusting on the fly which makes sense.. well see if theyve pulled it off when the driving impressions come in over time

as far as steering yer right its a great job Porsche is doing but even they are faking it.. just better at faking it
anotherwords you can mimic hydraulic feel by matching the frictional force experienced by the hydraulic system
this is why you hear in test drives the guys saying the steering is too light or too heavy.. in reference to what they were used to which is hydraulic which is what we all are used to for ages
Porsche was simply better at doing it because they adjust this via realtime input whilst driving via CANbus data
now can BMW do this?
it may be they were but just didnt dial it in as well as the porsche engineers who're dialing it in in realtime.. and of course artificially enhancing it (fake)

however its still just mimicking hydraulic.. I still prefer hydraulic of course but it aint coming back at least in the major auto makers
they can save too much money and its just the way steerings going to be as the car becomes more computerized

[BM dnobagaV]

Originally Posted by phoenixbmwlife

Sub $6xx for an M340i? I seriously don't that. Only if you put a crap tonn of money down.

My M235i 4 years ago at $51k MSRP with ED pricing, 0 down, when residuals was still high, and 7 MSDs was $555. This car will cost much more than that with options. And with higher residuals, and without the MSD, I can't see a well equipped M340i being less than $700 a month. But I hope I am wrong.

Your M235i was MSRP $51k???? What type of sick joke is that.

[bobloblaw]

Originally Posted by Serious

Lol idiots said exact same shit with the 46 came out. Too big, too fat, ugly, tech laden etc.

This is true (except I don't think Tiff Needellis an idiot lol). Here is his E46 M3 review.

At about 3:55 he says "It's no longer a sports saloon, not even a sports coupe, it's moved the 3 series into the GT category."

[Germanauto]

F30 was a refreshed E90 inside and out. It's frankly not as good looking, has dorky interior styling, and cheapened materials. Don't even start me on how shitty it was to drive.

Worst BMW in generations, it won't be missed you can bet that.

[antzcrashing]

Oh sorry bmw did we hurt your feelings? You hurt ours more. Deal with it. I'm sure you will feel better when your mass market car lines your pockets....

[ghaffari46]

"You don't feel how fast you are."
He got it wrong, the only reason you buy a 3 series vs a Lexus:
you WANT TO FEEL HOW FAST You ARE!

[Bluesummer]

Originally Posted by phoenixbmwlife

Sub $6xx for an M340i? I seriously don't that. Only if you put a crap tonn of money down.

My M235i 4 years ago at $51k MSRP with ED pricing, 0 down, when residuals was still high, and 7 MSDs was $555. This car will cost much more than that with options. And with higher residuals, and without the MSD, I can't see a well equipped M340i being less than $700 a month. But I hope I am wrong.

HIGHER residuals means lower payment. you want high residual, low MF.


a lease quote is pointless without information on at least your base MF, residual, final selling price and applicable incentives.

2er residual values have always been lower compared to 3er (if I remember correctly) even right now.
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1543172
https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1543170

8% difference in residual value can translate to >$100 differences in monthly payment.



It seems to me it would be best to catch up on some homework before you lease your next car.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by Bluesummer

HIGHER residuals means lower payment. you want high residual, low MF.


a lease quote is pointless without information on at least your base MF, residual, final selling price and applicable incentives.

2er residual values have always been lower compared to 3er (if I remember correctly) even right now.
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1543172
https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1543170

8% difference in residual value can translate to >$100 differences in monthly payment.



It seems to me it would be best to catch up on some homework before you lease your next car.

Obviously you didn't read what I wrote. I'm comparing the lease on my old M235i from 4 years ago when MF was lower and residuals were higher, to what most likely the M340i would be. Like I said my car was $51k MSRP. There is no way the M340i will be at that price well optioned.

I don't need a education on leases. Seems like you need an education on reading and comprehension.

[Bluesummer]

Originally Posted by phoenixbmwlife

Obviously you didn't read what I wrote. I'm comparing the lease on my old M235i from 4 years ago when MF was lower and residuals were higher, to what most likely the M340i would be. I don't need a education on leases. Seems like you need an education on reading and comprehension.

Ok. I will go back to middle school.

[domino_z]

You could start with ditching that archaic McPherson strut front end bloke

How you can design a brand new platform in the CLAR and persist with a low tech front suspension solution is idiotic

Everyone else in the segment, including Lexus, has switched to double wishbones

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by Bluesummer

Ok. I will go back to middle school.

Looks like I need an education on reading lol I meant to type lower residuals. I apologize.

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

the F30 has eDiff
the F30 is already one of the stiffest cars on the market
the F30 isn't perfect as it tries to cater to too many
but nothings really changed as far as that for the G20
when you make car stiffer something has to give
and if it still has runflats w/stiff sidewalls where the shocks gonna go
all of the shock need to be translated somewhere and damped else you have a lot of unhappy ordinary drivers
it has magic dampers supposedly which fall short of magnetic
the driving aspect will become more clear as more reviews come online

I am just railing on the visuals mostly
the more I look at the grill the more I am putoff
the bottom rear also looks a bit off
imo of course

F30 was a fine car - but correctly described as the 'worst' 3 series to date.

[Bluesummer]

Originally Posted by phoenixbmwlife

Looks like I need an education on reading lol I meant to type lower residuals. I apologize.

I too do hope a similarly equipped 340 will stay under the $700/mo threshold. With BMW still constantly pushing $3k lease incentives and other programs, I think we still got hope.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by Bluesummer

I too do hope a similarly equipped 340 will stay under the $700/mo threshold. With BMW still constantly pushing $3k lease incentives and other programs, I think we still got hope.

Have you decided the M340i to be your next car? I'm still waiting to see what the M8GC is going to be like for me but my wife needs a car next year, so it's either the new 3 or the X5. I feel we can save a lot of money just getting like an Msport 330i and load it up with nice options.

[Bluesummer]

Originally Posted by phoenixbmwlife

Have you decided the M340i to be your next car? I'm still waiting to see what the M8GC is going to be like for me but my wife needs a car next year, so it's either the new 3 or the X5. I feel we can save a lot of money just getting like an Msport 330i and load it up with nice options.

Not a chance. Personally I would wait for three generations before considering anything from the Mexican plant. I'm solely basing on opinion on what I've seen from the old X5s and actually owning a modern day X5M. The build quality has finally caught up on par after all these years.

[Just a 3]

Originally Posted by khailuan

Regardless of your misinterpretations I don't need to insult you to respond to you.

1. Let me clarify that i'm pointing out only the G20 whiners, not the enthusiasts and not Bimmerpost as a whole. One can be an enthusiast and not necessarily criticize the G20 for its size and steering because they most probably understand that BMW wants to develop different segments (4 door series, response to competition and customer complaints to lack of rear legroom) and has to embrace progress and technological advancements ie: electronic steering.

2. I admit that the F30 deserved mass criticism for its steering and driving pleasure but anyone who's driven a BMW prior to the F30 can point that out. It's not like BMW never realized they can do better than the F30.

That being said, based on current info so far I think BMW seems to have made major improvements over the last gen 3 series. I'm cautiously optimistic about it but I'll wait for reviews.

Apologies if I came across as insulting - that was not my intent.