[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by ///M-er-gized

Yeah, Alfa Romeo has a bad reputation because in the 60s and 70s, they were awful in terms of reliability.

I'm half Italian, so I could get away with saying this, but Italian cars are difficult to live with.

I wouldn't get one.

They've been awful after 70s, and they're still awful in terms of reliability. I had multiple friends back home in Istanbul from 90s to these days, who Alfa Romeo. (156, 146 GTA, Giulia, guilietta) All of them had problems (No exception) and switched to super reliable and boring cars like Toyota afterwards because of the frustration they had with Alfa.

[Prince_of_Persia]

I just want to know what they were thinking with that front end and the ugly huge grills?

[praxis218]

Originally Posted by Prince_of_Persia

I just want to know what they were thinking with that front end and the ugly huge grills?

I think the front end looks beautiful. It's all subjective.

[Fred_Boosted]

I'd take G20/22 anytime in any day over F30/32. Compare to E90/92? meh... I guess I'll stick with more tech packed G20? Just can't let go E92 Msport/M3 design.

[tkila]

This will sell well in China. They will get the long wheel base version and base engines. If you live in China or have been to any major cities in China, how many E46's or older generation BMW's do you see on the road? The answer is very few or none, because what matters is the latest tech.

Sorry folks, but the target audience is China and Chinese people. They do not care about how the car drives or how good the steering feel is. All they care about is the brand name, interior quality, comfort, and status symbol.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by tkila

Sorry folks, but the target audience is China and Chinese people. They do not care about how the car drives or how good the steering feel is. All they care about is the brand name, interior quality, comfort, and status symbol.

Not sure that only applies to the Chinese market. As long as the drive is pretty decent, (not necessary to be at enthusiast levels), most users in many markets will be looking at the highlighted criteria.

[Tallest]

Originally Posted by ASAP

again... runflats or no?

10th time i am asking lol.

Of course, why you even ask.

[lazyninja87]

He's got a lot more negative criticism headed his way

[MT4life]

Originally Posted by Tallest

Of course, why you even ask.

Is that also for Chinsese market? I freaking hate run flats. On a 340 they made you pay more and get ugly wheels to get normal tires. On e90 I just bought new normal tires next day after I picked up the new car.

[hans007]

Originally Posted by Tallest

Of course, why you even ask.

gXX x3/x4/5/x5 allow you to get non runflats with certain wheel combinations on bmwusa.com , i'd imagine there will be some option on the g20 too. they all seem to have the option for $150 to get a space saver spare regardless of which wheel combo too, so you can always just do that and swap your runflats out

[ShawnPaul]

That article is hilarious. Clearly he didn't listen to a single word, because people saying things about the old e46 complained about a lack of steering feel and driver feedback in new cars. He went on to talk about comfort and stiffness. So clearly, more of the same nonsense from modern day bmw. It's right in line with putting m badges on everything and making more suvs. I can't wait to be disappointed by a new 3 series.

On a positive note, this makes me like my older car even more now.


.

[ShawnPaul]

Originally Posted by MT4life

Is that also for Chinsese market? I freaking hate run flats. On a 340 they made you pay more and get ugly wheels to get normal tires. On e90 I just bought new normal tires next day after I picked up the new car.

Everyone hates run flats. They are the worst. You can't even fully drive on them when they go flat, which is ironic. I had a flat once and the sidewalk cracked. Lol.

[Bimmerforlife]

Originally Posted by ShawnPaul

Everyone hates run flats. They are the worst. You can't even fully drive on them when they go flat, which is ironic. I had a flat once and the sidewalk cracked. Lol.

I've been riding on runflats now for almost 8 yrs on my E90 and I feel like I've forgotten what it's like to ride on non run flats. My next car (ready to buy but still not sure what to get) will not be run flats. I've been through several brands and there all the same harsh and rough riding. It's got to the point where people would rather not take my car because it's too harsh of a ride and I know it's the tires.

[DCG]

The Cockpit, Digital Dashboard look great, clean yet modern.

Obviously the "Ultimate Driving Machine" driving dynamics has to be there on all 3 Series! Thats a must!

Interior fit and finish has to be there and can always be better, looks nice from the photos. Cooler sportier front seats are always a bonus.

Engineering, efficiency, reliability are all critical.

Innovation is always nice when it works, sometimes less is more.

But what concerns me is the some elements of the exterior design. It baffles me that there were probably cooler designs that never went into final production. Hopefully the M3 and M4 will look awesome.

I don't purchase cars or vehicles strictly on exterior styling, but that is what attracts most people to the vehicle and it is the first thing they literally see. BMW Exterior Design Team and Wheel Designers could have and should have done better.

Truly my main concern is the North American - Mexican made 3 Series build quality and reliability. That is a very serious concern, and could bring down the brand here in the States and Canada. I don't want to see that happen. Some manufacturers/brands can never recover from that if it goes south.

[Inablur]

Damn I miss my e46 and e36

/rant

[upsidedownfunnel]

Originally Posted by DCG

The Cockpit, Digital Dashboard look great, clean yet modern.

Obviously the "Ultimate Driving Machine" driving dynamics has to be there on all 3 Series! Thats a must!

Interior fit and finish has to be there and can always be better, looks nice from the photos. Cooler sportier front seats are always a bonus.

Engineering, efficiency, reliability are all critical.

Innovation is always nice when it works, sometimes less is more.

But what concerns me is the some elements of the exterior design. It baffles me that there were probably cooler designs that never went into final production. Hopefully the M3 and M4 will look awesome.

I don't purchase cars or vehicles strictly on exterior styling, but that is what attracts most people to the vehicle and it is the first thing they literally see. BMW Exterior Design Team and Wheel Designers could have and should have done better.

Truly my main concern is the North American - Mexican made 3 Series build quality and reliability. That is a very serious concern, and could bring down the brand here in the States and Canada. I don't want to see that happen. Some manufacturers/brands can never recover from that if it goes south.

A lot of manufacturers build cars in Mexico and none have reported any drop in quality. BMW obviously also makes a lot of cars in the Southern USA and no one has any concerns about quality there. I know my wife's X5 is much better built than my German F30.

Do you honestly think blue collar workers in America are somehow more skilled than blue collar workers in Mexico? Think about what you're saying here. A high-school educated worker somewhere in the Southern United states is more skilled at the art of being an assembly line worker than a Mexican?

First of all, much of the process is automated and done by robots. Secondly, assembly line workers are given just a couple tasks to do all day every day. ANY person can master putting a dashboard in a car properly or aligning a trunk lid properly if given the proper training and tools to do their job.

Just look at the difference in quality between Chryslers made in Detroit and BMWs made in Spartanburg. Our X5 has very good panel alignment. Nothing was out of place, everything was perfect. yet a higher paid UAW line worker from Chrysler has trouble aligning a liftgate and interior panels on our old Grand Cherokee. It has nothing to do with what country they're made. It has everything to do with the company's process and investment in higher quality tooling and parts that are made to higher standards.

[hans007]

Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel

A lot of manufacturers build cars in Mexico and none have reported any drop in quality. BMW obviously also makes a lot of cars in the Southern USA and no one has any concerns about quality there. I know my wife's X5 is much better built than my German F30.

Do you honestly think blue collar workers in America are somehow more skilled than blue collar workers in Mexico? Think about what you're saying here. A high-school educated worker somewhere in the Southern United states is more skilled at the art of being an assembly line worker than a Mexican?

First of all, much of the process is automated and done by robots. Secondly, assembly line workers are given just a couple tasks to do all day every day. ANY person can master putting a dashboard in a car properly or aligning a trunk lid properly if given the proper training and tools to do their job.

Just look at the difference in quality between Chryslers made in Detroit and BMWs made in Spartanburg. Our X5 has very good panel alignment. Nothing was out of place, everything was perfect. yet a higher paid UAW line worker from Chrysler has trouble aligning a liftgate and interior panels on our old Grand Cherokee. It has nothing to do with what country they're made. It has everything to do with the company's process and investment in higher quality tooling and parts that are made to higher standards.

his thinly veiled racism is all over the other thread about the Mexican factory making it's first car. i doubt you're going to change his mind. I 100% agree with you though.

the risk they make a poor car is all on BMW getting the process right and training and qcing correctly. but that would be true of any new plant or any new employee at any plant anywhere in the world.

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

How exactly is stiffness supposed to translate into ride comfort? lol

The stiffer the body the easier it is to make a car handle and ride well. When the body does not flex as much in both vertical and horizontal planes, you can run softer springs and dampers, yet retain the same handling traits as compared to a similar car that has a more flexible body structure. When the body flexes more, it requires a firmer suspension to make up for the loss in handling precision because the body flex makes the handling less predictable.

It's also easier to tune both the handling and ride characteristics in the suspension when you don't have to compensate and factor in how body flex can upset the handling of the car.

[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Your example is applicable to so many users in our market (UK). Many won't take on the Jag' for similar reasons. A slightly better steering feel, a touch better handling, doesn't sell cars when the vehicle has so much more to fulfil than simply being the best at going around a few bends near the limit.

Believe me I would have taken the Jag - a white one with "Templar" wheels, for those of us who remember a certain TV programme - but for Jaguar's stupid obsession with a discredited fuel type and a stubborn refusal to offer more petrol engines with more trim choices like they did everywhere else in the world. They didn't care as long as they sold more eco-diesels to corporate fleet managers. But in any other country, I would have taken the 240 PS version over the equivalent 330i.

In the end of course I didn't buy any of the above!

[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by Inablur

Damn I miss my e46 and e36

Come to the UK and start shopping! Good, well looked after E46s with tens of thousands of miles left in them without major work are being sold for near-scrap value. Mint 330i? £3k. Serviceable 325i with no rust (unusual for the UK)? Half that. That's how much motorists value steering feel and all the other things that made the E46 good .

[ShawnPaul]

For the comments above, i think it's not an issue to make things in Mexico, but it shows that the priority is cost cutting over tradition. So the quality of cars in Mexico is likely more the fault of the manufacturer not mexico.

As for an above comment of a 3 series having good driving dynamics, clearly that is false, because the outgoing 3 series was the worst in its class. I'm worried the new one will be the same

[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by ShawnPaul

As for an above comment of a 3 series having good driving dynamics, clearly that is false, because the outgoing 3 series was the worst in its class. I'm worried the new one will be the same

Not one review published by someone who wasn't drooling at the same time said that the A4, Lexus and Mercedes C-Class were all better to drive than the old 3. The Jag and Alfa pipped it on some facets, but not all. I am sure that the outgoing 3 series had the worst driving dynamics of its class in your own opinion, though.

It's interesting that the BMW chief complained about British, American and Australian writers exclusively. In terms of global influence they represent a static at best influence on global tastes. If it was me, I wouldn't have been too bothered about them!