[jmack123]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

Pretty much taking a page from the M-Sport Gran Coupe Shadowline book where the bottom of the grille has no contrasting color strip and the blacked out nature just melds with the horizontal nature of the intakes. Much better balance this way, less grille pop, more of a horalistic front end.

Seems to be the less grill-pop the better. Personally, I actually like the design of the M3/4 for example when the grill is color-matched with the body in black or even a darker gray etc.

[SW19]

Originally Posted by sikotic

I actually like it.. Is the USA ever going to get those M Style seats?! All our competitors have cool seats and we get stuck with basic ones unless you go full M.

Looks like Canada is finally going to be getting them.Hopefully the US will also be able to get them.There great seats.


https://www.bmw.ca/en/all-models/4-s...ies-coupe.html

[BMW012]

Originally Posted by Roth517

Needs to lose all the damn ///M badges and simply be called a 440i.

can you help elaborate why it doesn't deserve an M badge? just curious.

[Roth517]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

LOL. Most of the badge haters and grille haters don’t even own a modern BMW or even a BMW at all. It’s kind of funny how they think they are experts on the right/wrong way for owners to show their enthusiasm.

I do. See my signature.

Slapping the ///M badge in front of the 440i is silly ///Marketing by BMW and dilutes what ///M stood for for many years: Motorsports and, in the case of the road cars, the highest performing version of the model range.

[Cruise'n]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

Either way, coming into our forum to tell us you think that our cars are ugly isn’t a very nice thing to do.

Just because they've sold a few doesn't mean they look good.

Just says ago at the 12 hours race and would have had at least 10 people mention the ugly BMW grills.
Many more when talking about the car I was driving then mentions the MASSIVE grills.
Not one liked them. I'm not alone

I was wearing a BMW race shirt and driving a BMW so people spoke BMW's to me.

Your forum? Your cars? I was talking about the one in this post.
My option, but it does matter too, along with yours.

[Roth517]

Originally Posted by BMW012

can you help elaborate why it doesn't deserve an M badge? just curious.

Simple: It's not an ///M car. It's the mid-range of the 4 Series. Ever since, oh, I don't know, THE E30, it's range has been something like the 325i, the 330i, and M3. Now it's the 430i (even though it should be the 420i because it had a 2.0 liter engine), the M440i (even though it's not an ///M car and has a 3.0 liter engine), and M4.

Slapping the ///M badge in front of the 440i is silly ///Marketing by BMW and dilutes what ///M stood for for many years: Motorsports and, in the case of the road cars, the highest performing version of the model range.

PS: Your car should be the 550i, not the ///M550i. But ///Marketing!

[Roth517]

Originally Posted by Rawhide

But the salt of some //M car owners gives the cars a nice glossy finish.

And I bet you don't correct people when they think you have an actual ///M car. Nice 340i, bro.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Roth517

Simple: It's not an ///M car. It's the mid-range of the 4 Series. Ever since, oh, I don't know, THE E30, it's range has been something like the 325i, the 330i, and M3. Now it's the 430i (even though it should be the 420i because it had a 2.0 liter engine), the M440i (even though it's not an ///M car and has a 3.0 liter engine), and M4.

Slapping the ///M badge in front of the 440i is silly ///Marketing by BMW and dilutes what ///M stood for for many years: Motorsports and, in the case of the road cars, the highest performing version of the model range.

I have had M badges on my non-M performance cars and would rather they not be there. Even my X7 40i has an M badge in the gauge cluster and door sills and steering wheel. The only benefit of that is reminding me that I do have a true ///M in the garage. At least it’s not on the back of the car.

If you drive the cars hard, you’ll find the components like wheels, brakes, etc aren’t up to the challenge.

Mercedes and Audi eek value out of their performance branding also, but I would have liked M to reserve the badging for their true M performance vehicles.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by Roth517

I do. See my signature.

Slapping the ///M badge in front of the 440i is silly ///Marketing by BMW and dilutes what ///M stood for for many years: Motorsports and, in the case of the road cars, the highest performing version of the model range.

How many M owners actually use their cars for motorsports? Let’s be real, the “M” moniker has always been about marketing. You’re fooling yourself if you think there is anything intrinsically special about an M vs. M performance. One is simply slightly better performing than the other.

The idea that it’s sacrilegious to put Ms on “non” M cars is hilariously petty.

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by Roth517

I do. See my signature.

Slapping the ///M badge in front of the 440i is silly ///Marketing by BMW and dilutes what ///M stood for for many years: Motorsports and, in the case of the road cars, the highest performing version of the model range.

Considering that even the "tame" 430i has power/handling performance that beats an M3 of just a few generations ago, how can you say that? ///M doesn't stand still. The ///M division doesn't only design M3's and M4's, they design ///M-Sport 3's and 4's too.

The ///M criteria you put up on such a high pedestal based on your "many years" of understanding is precisely what the M340i achieves and you can't blame BMW or their owners for embracing that concept.

It's you who needs to change your perspective. Because it's wrong.

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by Cruise'n

Just because they've sold a few doesn't mean they look good.

The argument isn't what you or I as individuals think; the argument is whether or not BMW made a massive mistake in the macro view, and the sales figures make it clear- they didn't.

So this 3-year-old narrative of the 'horror' of the BMW design decisions and how BMW is going to regret such a decision is over. When more 4's are sold in a calendar year by a margin of 50% than 3's that ends this argument forever.

Originally Posted by Cruise'n

Just says ago at the 12 hours race and would have had at least 10 people mention the ugly BMW grills.
Many more when talking about the car I was driving then mentions the MASSIVE grills. Not one liked them. I'm not alone

These opinions are as valid as those who think that Diet Coke is disgusting. Doesn't change the fact that to their customers Diet Coke is a mammoth success. You may hate it, but that doesn't mean Coke shouldn't produce it as there are billions who disagree with you. This is why BMW offers no less than a dozen Sedan/Coupe alternatives between all the 2's, 3's, 4's, and 5's in the line. I don't like Tanzanite Blue. Doesn't mean that those who buy them are idiots or that BMW shouldn't offer it.

Originally Posted by Cruise'n

I was wearing a BMW race shirt and driving a BMW so people spoke BMW's to me.

Come now, a bunch of old timey BMW enthusiasts crushing on their E46's and E90's is hardly the 2024 buying public. Your cute little racing niche isn't what BMW is concerned with as it heads into the future. And for every 1 of you who is alienated by what BMW is transforming into there are 1000 of me who are quite pleased. It's called progress. You don't have to be a part of it.

Originally Posted by Cruise'n

Your forum? Your cars? I was talking about the one in this post. My option, but it does matter too, along with yours.

If dozens of Audi owners descended upon this forum telling you how ugly the 3 Series is week after week for 3+ years, I'd bet you'd feel offended too. Yet here we are, in a safe space for 3 and 4 Series enthusiasts, and we 4 Series owners are supposed to tolerate being dumped-on by our own kind?

No, sir. We are not. We share this forum.

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by jmack123

How many M owners actually use their cars for motorsports? Let’s be real, the “M” moniker has always been about marketing. You’re fooling yourself if you think there is anything intrinsically special about an M vs. M performance. One is simply slightly better performing than the other.

The idea that it’s sacrilegious to put Ms on “non” M cars is hilariously petty.

Exactly!

Every pure M car I've ever seen on the road is driven by the same overweight, bald 55 year old who just likes how it looks and never pushes it harder than a 330i. I see them at the bagel shop every morning in their Lululemon athleisurewear and Dolce & Gabbana eyewear.

And we thought Corvette owners were hilarious. It doesn't end there.

[Roth517]

Originally Posted by jmack123

How many M owners actually use their cars for motorsports? Let’s be real, the “M” moniker has always been about marketing. You’re fooling yourself if you think there is anything intrinsically special about an M vs. M performance. One is simply slightly better performing than the other.

The idea that it’s sacrilegious to put Ms on “non” M cars is hilariously petty.

Petty? No, I value tradition and proper branding and badging within a car company I love. And I, for one, track (and have tracked) my cars. And paddocks during track days often have numerous proper ///M cars of various generations. Ever been to a track day?

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

Exactly!

Every pure M car I've ever seen on the road is driven by the same overweight, bald 55 year old who just likes how it looks and never pushes it harder than a 330i. I see them at the bagel shop every morning in their Lululemon athleisurewear and Dolce & Gabbana eyewear.

And we thought Corvette owners were hilarious. It doesn't end there.

Almost every pure M car I see the driver is younger and driving like they stole it. Or they are just adding the spoiler, MPE, and badging to make people think it is a M car.

There are posers for every car manufacturer. I see it all the time. The guy wearing the Ferrari jacket, hat, shirt, shorts, and socks is a perfect example.

There is also the older set who just walk into the dealer and pick the most expensive car that appeals to them. They don't look at options or performance, they just point at a 2/3/4/5/7 series and say "I want the top car with all options" and the dealer orders them a loaded M car.

[Roth517]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

Considering that even the "tame" 430i has power/handling performance that beats an M3 of just a few generations ago, how can you say that?

Yes, four cylinder cars of today are faster than V8 powered cars of 30 years ago. So what? Doesn't mean BMW should slap ///M badges on the trunk lids of mid-range models when, before this generation, it never did so.

///M doesn't stand still. The ///M division doesn't only design M3's and M4's, they design ///M-Sport 3's and 4's too.

But the ///M engineers work on ///M cars and not the lesser ones. It's all about ///Marketing now. Sad.

The ///M criteria you put up on such a high pedestal based on your "many years" of understanding is precisely what the M340i achieves and you can't blame BMW or their owners for embracing that concept.

It's you who needs to change your perspective. Because it's wrong.

High pedestal? YES, BMW has earned it. I have a high reverence for actual ///M cars because of the reputation they've developed and hate seeing that watered down with mid-range 3ers and 4ers with an ///M badge before their numerical model.

By the way, why you mad, bro? You drive an X7 and 4 Series GC.

[Roth517]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

Exactly!

Every pure M car I've ever seen on the road is driven by the same overweight, bald 55 year old who just likes how it looks and never pushes it harder than a 330i. I see them at the bagel shop every morning in their Lululemon athleisurewear and Dolce & Gabbana eyewear.

And we thought Corvette owners were hilarious. It doesn't end there.

Mid-40s here and I track, and have tracked, many of the my cars in my sig at multiple tracks, including my G82, TODD. And if you were to ever show up to a track day, you'd see a paddock with numerous M3s and M4s from different generations. But I doubt you've ever been in a track paddock.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

Considering that even the "tame" 430i has power/handling performance that beats an M3 of just a few generations ago, how can you say that? ///M doesn't stand still. The ///M division doesn't only design M3's and M4's, they design ///M-Sport 3's and 4's too.

The ///M criteria you put up on such a high pedestal based on your "many years" of understanding is precisely what the M340i achieves and you can't blame BMW or their owners for embracing that concept.

It's you who needs to change your perspective. Because it's wrong.

Well, I think both views can be acceptable but there’s some objective realities here.

I had the 430i with the m performance suspension and took it on the tail of the dragon. It handled well, and low end torque was great. But it doesn’t have the performance of the e46 m3.

I took my z4 m40 to the tail as well. Same thing - quick, but suspension and brakes and top end are lacking relative to the e93 m3 or any of the true M cars I’ve had. I invested in the Z4 suspension and it handled much better. The handschalter should fix some of the shortcomings - and may as well earn that badge.

22 years ago I took my 323ci canyon carving in Southern California - absolutely handled well. But when I stepped up to the 330 and did the same and then the e46 M3, the M was leagues apart. And based on my experience the delta is still there today.

So I believe true M high performance cars are worth the M badge on the back.

But I look at an M340 or Z4M40 or M440i and say ok- acceptable but not ideal. Doesn’t bother me too much.

We can all agree an X6 40i with a fake M badge added is a bit tacky.

[Rawhide]

Originally Posted by Roth517

And I bet you don't correct people when they think you have an actual ///M car. Nice 340i, bro.

Nope. And I'll continue doing it knowing it upsets you so much.
I'm watering down your precious brand and making the additional 20k you spent apparently just for bragging rights vanish down the drain.

An //M badge for you, and an //M badge for you. //M Badges for everyone!! Whoo hoo! Thanks BMW!

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by Dan B

Almost every pure M car I see the driver is younger and driving like they stole it. Or they are just adding the spoiler, MPE, and badging to make people think it is a M car.

There are posers for every car manufacturer. I see it all the time. The guy wearing the Ferrari jacket, hat, shirt, shorts, and socks is a perfect example.

There is also the older set who just walk into the dealer and pick the most expensive car that appeals to them. They don't look at options or performance, they just point at a 2/3/4/5/7 series and say "I want the top car with all options" and the dealer orders them a loaded M car.

Agreed, the point being that the vast majority of the so-called "pure M" owners aren't tracking their cars or pushing the limits of possible performance. These are glorified grocery getters that look expensive and impress people at 10 mph cruising down main street.

And there is nothing wrong with that, by the way. It's the implication that the actual owners of these cars are diehard enthusiasts that is what's wrong, the misperception at least.

BMW doesn't see the need to 'protect' the M badge anymore because they know their customers aren't radical performance hounds anymore and/or they know that today's M340i provides the same or superior driving experience than the E46 or E90 M3's of yore.

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by Roth517

Yes, four cylinder cars of today are faster than V8 powered cars of 30 years ago. So what? Doesn't mean BMW should slap ///M badges on the trunk lids of mid-range models when, before this generation, it never did so.

The point is that your benchmark for epic ///M performance metrics has been achieved in cars with smaller engines. That should be celebrated, not looked down upon. BMW engineering is fine with ///M badges on 30i M-Sport's and M40i's. So too should you. It's not for you to say. It's BMW. And they do.

Originally Posted by Roth517

But the ///M engineers work on ///M cars and not the lesser ones. It's all about ///Marketing now. Sad.

That's not true. The same ///M division that produces the M3 produces the M340i and M-Sport 330i variants too. That's precisely why they all wear the ///M badge. They have earned it.

Originally Posted by Roth517

High pedestal? YES, BMW has earned it. I have a high reverence for actual ///M cars because of the reputation they've developed and hate seeing that watered down with mid-range 3ers and 4ers with an ///M badge before their numerical model.

That's not your call, sorry. BMW says it is so. So it is.

Originally Posted by Roth517

By the way, why you mad, bro? You drive an X7 and 4 Series GC.

I'm not mad at all. But candidly I am tired of the same silly 2004 forum narratives that a few obscure enthusiasts still hold on to. It's time to let it go. It's 20 years already. It isn't that important. BMW has moved on. You should too.

And, most importantly, a) everyone who would know the difference between 30i's, 40i's, and M's can't be fooled and b) those who don't have a clue don't know what they're looking at. So who is hurt here? No one. Let people enjoy the cars they bought the way they want.

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by Roth517

Mid-40s here and I track, and have tracked, many of the my cars in my sig at multiple tracks, including my G82, TODD. And if you were to ever show up to a track day, you'd see a paddock with numerous M3s and M4s from different generations. But I doubt you've ever been in a track paddock.

Props to you and the 1% of the BMW population that track your cars, bravo.

Leave the 99% of us who have other hobbies alone. You have no moral high ground because you choose to drive around in circles on the weekends while the rest of us drive around to soccer practice.

And it's becoming apparent that this is what is actually bothering you- it's not 'respect' or 'tradition. You want a ///M badge to be some signal to the world that you are a super-special car racer, some status symbol, and BMW deciding to put the badge on daily drivers is vexing you.

How about you get one of those big white circle number decals and plaster it on the hood and doors. Lets everyone know that you're Fonzie and lets all of us Richie Cunningham's drive in peace. Good?

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Well, I think both views can be acceptable but there’s some objective realities here.

I had the 430i with the m performance suspension and took it on the tail of the dragon. It handled well, and low end torque was great. But it doesn’t have the performance of the e46 m3.

I took my z4 m40 to the tail as well. Same thing - quick, but suspension and brakes and top end are lacking relative to the e93 m3 or any of the true M cars I’ve had. I invested in the Z4 suspension and it handled much better. The handschalter should fix some of the shortcomings - and may as well earn that badge.

22 years ago I took my 323ci canyon carving in Southern California - absolutely handled well. But when I stepped up to the 330 and did the same and then the e46 M3, the M was leagues apart. And based on my experience the delta is still there today.

So I believe true M high performance cars are worth the M badge on the back.

But I look at an M340 or Z4M40 or M440i and say ok- acceptable but not ideal. Doesn’t bother me too much.

We can all agree an X6 40i with a fake M badge added is a bit tacky.

Some good points, but seeing as we trust in BMW to create fantastic cars and throw great time and money towards them, we should trust in BMW to brand these cars accordingly as well.

Makes no sense to me how some can embrace only a portion of the brand they supposedly are so dedicated and loyal to. You can't love half a wife. You can't love half a car brand. If BMW wants to throw M badges on M-Sport cars, that's the decision, time to live with it. It's been 13 years since the first M fender badge appeared on a 328i, 5 years since the M340i was launched. Time to let this go.