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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions Very disappointed with the LED headlight output

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      02-07-2020, 04:11 PM   #23
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The main reason I didn't go for laser headlights was not even initial cost but potential replacement cost if something goes wrong out of warranty (and I tend to keep cars a while).... I've heard they cost $16k to replace the pair. That combined with US restrictions made LED lamps the more attractive option in my case.
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      02-07-2020, 04:13 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by TheRetroGuy View Post
The main reason I didn't go for laser headlights was not even initial cost but potential replacement cost if something goes wrong out of warranty (and I tend to keep cars a while).... I've heard they cost $16k to replace the pair. That combined with US restrictions made LED lamps the more attractive option in my case.
$16k?? Lol that can't be correct. Who told you that?
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      02-07-2020, 04:18 PM   #25
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$16k?? Lol that can't be correct. Who told you that?
It costs more than Carbon Ceramic Brakes option for the M4.
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      02-07-2020, 04:20 PM   #26
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It costs more than Carbon Ceramic Brakes option for the M4.
Exactly. No way that's right.
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      02-07-2020, 04:40 PM   #27
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRetroGuy View Post
The main reason I didn't go for laser headlights was not even initial cost but potential replacement cost if something goes wrong out of warranty (and I tend to keep cars a while).... I've heard they cost $16k to replace the pair. That combined with US restrictions made LED lamps the more attractive option in my case.
$16k?? Lol that can't be correct. Who told you that?
Well, the headlights itself cost $3,600 and there are three other require modules costing a total of $1,200.

So give and take, $5,000 USD, per side.

Edit: The i8's Laser lights does cost $16,000 for the pair, maybe that's where he got the number from..
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      02-07-2020, 05:16 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Well, the headlights itself cost $3,600 and there are three other require modules costing a total of $1,200.

So give and take, $5,000 USD, per side.

Edit: The i8's Laser lights does cost $16,000 for the pair, maybe that's where got the number from..
Anything for the i8 is going to be marked up. Point is that the laser lights on the G20 are not $16k.
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      02-07-2020, 05:25 PM   #29
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Anything for the i8 is going to be marked up. Point is that the laser lights on the G20 are not $16k.
I don't recall the link where I read it, the number just stuck in my head. I'm more than happy to forget I ever heard it.

But still, $10k for replacements is more than I want to deal with out of warranty.
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      02-08-2020, 06:54 AM   #30
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No car has come close to my wifes old 2006 TSX headlight output. My e82 adaptive HIDs were a noticeable downgrade. My F06 adaptive LEDs were a downgrade from the E82, and the G20 while better than the F06, are weaker than or on par with the E82 except when laser high beams are on (which is very rare considering I live in a more urban setting)

Last edited by siegester; 02-08-2020 at 11:00 AM..
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      02-08-2020, 07:32 AM   #31
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No car has come close to my wifes old 2006 TSX headlight output. My e82 adaptive HIDs were a noticeable downgrade. My F06 adaptive LEDs were a downgrade from the E82, and the G20 while better than the F06, is still weaker than the E82 except when laser high beams are on (whichbis very rare considering I live in a more urban setting)
I agree, I had an '08 TSX and 135i also, I remember the TSX projector HIDs was just simply amazing; the beam cut-off line was so precise and crisp.. 👌🏻

The 135i was ok, I guess..

Xenons are basically were headlighting technology plateaued, in my opinion. I never had an illumination issue with any of my HID-equipped vehicles. Whereas, LEDs, in all variations, leaves a lot to be desired.

In 1991, BMW was the first company in automotive history to offer a vehicle with Xenon headlights, in their then new 7 Series and what's funny, they were one of the last manufacturers to still have them. Regardless, they had the technology down to near perfection.

LEDs certainly appear more modern and luxurious but are counter-productive in its operation. If given a choice today, I would certainly opt of Xenons and call it a day..
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      02-08-2020, 11:31 AM   #32
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What is the reason for the trend toward LEDs? I know they last a lot longer, which is a nice feature if you ever had to deal with replacement cost of HIDs after 7 or 8 years, but I'm wondering if it has to do with safety of other drivers? Supposedly older drivers have a much harder time coping with HID output.
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      02-08-2020, 11:49 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by TheRetroGuy View Post
What is the reason for the trend toward LEDs? I know they last a lot longer, which is a nice feature if you ever had to deal with replacement cost of HIDs after 7 or 8 years, but I'm wondering if it has to do with safety of other drivers? Supposedly older drivers have a much harder time coping with HID output.

It's about styling really, especially here in the US were the light out and wattage is capped to a crippling and pointless level of operation, anyways.. So there is no real benefit, other than appearance.

Also, although glare is the number one complaint to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, LED headlights, with its saturated center burning core is way more jarring than Xenons. So actually less safe to other motorist but under the standard of light measurement, it slipped through the cracks of getting approval.

Try looking directly into the headlights of a vehicle with LEDs and the other with Xenon, you'll instantly see what I mean.
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      02-08-2020, 12:17 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRetroGuy View Post
What is the reason for the trend toward LEDs? I know they last a lot longer, which is a nice feature if you ever had to deal with replacement cost of HIDs after 7 or 8 years, but I'm wondering if it has to do with safety of other drivers? Supposedly older drivers have a much harder time coping with HID output.
Interesting thing about the Xenons on my E90, they have never been replaced. 13.5 years and 160,000 miles. So hopefully these LEDs last as long....
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      02-09-2020, 11:58 AM   #35
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Interesting thing about the Xenons on my E90, they have never been replaced. 13.5 years and 160,000 miles. So hopefully these LEDs last as long....
It could be that BMW Xenons were higher quality than average, or that the technology just improved after 2004 or so. The only ones I had experience with were made a few years before that, and they lasted about 7 years (the average lifespan at the time) before needing replacement. Replacement was expensive (hundreds per headlight) and conversion to halogen required an entirely different type of headlight assembly and was almost as costly. One of the big selling points (at least originally) of LEDs was that they last approx 3x longer than Xenon.
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      02-09-2020, 06:06 PM   #36
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I feel like this is all marketing. People think LEDs are the hot new tech, so their hot new car must have the hot new tech. LEDs are at best a sidegrade offering some advantages but also some disadvantages to HID. Laser headlights seem to be a real upgrade from both HID and LED.
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      02-09-2020, 08:05 PM   #37
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Sorry, I am not following.

I had a F31 and F10 with Xenons and the LEDs (Laser) on my G20 are light years ahead of both.

I have zero complaints about the headlights on G20.
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      02-10-2020, 12:21 AM   #38
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I've had two previous F30s with adaptive xenons and the low beers were awful; they always seemed to be aimed too low. Highs were adequate at best. I have a 19 G20 with the exec package lasers and have no complaints. Vast improvements all around. Interestingly, I cannot discern differences in light output or beam pattern around the supposed 40mph threshold. Dark highway, high beam assist on, when starting from stop, no perceptible change when crossing 40mph or anywhere near it. I plan on coding anti dazzle (after my upcoming service as I am still on the 03/19 software) and I am hoping that will be an improvement.
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      02-10-2020, 12:32 AM   #39
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Laser upgrade lights seem great to me at low beam and they are crazy when lasers kick on. Not sure if the adaptive LED low beams are the same as laser unit LED low beams but I have no complaint with mine.
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      02-10-2020, 11:58 AM   #40
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Laser upgrade lights seem great to me at low beam and they are crazy when lasers kick on. Not sure if the adaptive LED low beams are the same as laser unit LED low beams but I have no complaint with mine.
The low beam is the same for the adaptive LEDs as well as Laser lights. It’s only high beams that are different.

Low beam is really good even with the adaptive LEDs. High beams not so much.
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      02-10-2020, 06:35 PM   #41
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I have the adaptive LED’s and thought this was in my head but I confirmed it via IIHS testing. The headlights are not as bright as the old xenon’s in my F30. (Hence the marginal rating from IIHS). The highbeams don’t even get close to the 500 feet threshold required by IIHS testing.

I shudder to think how bad the standard LED headlights are. (Given a poor rating and even less bright)

Question - can the output be changed via future programming or is that wishful thinking ?

Anyway, wish I had known, would have opted for Lasers. Esp on NC backroads. But why should I have to pay for lasers ? what is BMW’s reasoning for the piss poor LED’s ? Surely they know about IIHS testing? Why does a Toyota Corolla have better LED output ?
Laser light is just as bad on my M340i. My old 340 and my 335 before that one was way better! Pretty disappointed about it!! Can't see crap!
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      02-10-2020, 09:43 PM   #42
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The non adaptive led lights suck more.
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      02-11-2020, 01:38 PM   #43
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The high beams truly suck on the non laser equipped models. I have had mine on before without even realizing due to how poor the high beams are. Luckily for me I don't need to utilize high beams frequently.
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      02-11-2020, 02:27 PM   #44
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The high beams truly suck on the non laser equipped models. I have had mine on before without even realizing due to how poor the high beams are. Luckily for me I don't need to utilize high beams frequently.
I accidentally enable my high beams all too often on my G20. Most times I also didn't notice they were on, so I guess I agree they don't seem particularly powerful vs. low beams.
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