[0Geedorah]

Hey going through the forum it was kind of hard to find a good thread on coilovers, so I was wondering if someone could shoot me some advice on a upgrade.

I daily my car and want to improve the handling to be on par (or at least close to) an M3 and was wondering if KW's V2 kit would solve that issue. My only concern would that would be that the car would be a bit too rough to daily. Anyone here done that upgrade?

[Chubbiejones]

Originally Posted by 0Geedorah

Hey going through the forum it was kind of hard to find a good thread on coilovers, so I was wondering if someone could shoot me some advice on a upgrade.

I daily my car and want to improve the handling to be on par (or at least close to) an M3 and was wondering if KW's V2 kit would solve that issue. My only concern would that would be that the car would be a bit too rough to daily. Anyone here done that upgrade?

I was in the same dilemma a few months prior, I ended up with a set of Ohlins R/T coilovers including a set of Vorshlag camber plates. Unfortunately I have yet to install as I am waiting to install a new set of wheels and tires to ensure I gain the best alignment possible. In the interim I am hoping a set of H&R or Eibach sway bars will be available in the USA for a RWD. I have also debated the purchase of the Dinan monoball upgrade but would rather wait till SPL or GAS has an available option.

Not sure my response is all that helpful in your decision but I would say I am very happy with Ohlins product and their customer service.

[Knifeedge2k1]

does your car have an LSD ? that's gonna be probably the biggest upgrade aside from tires

coilovers alone probably aren't going to give you what you're looking for if you already have an M340i with msport suspension

unless you're tracking your car often or have insane amount of aero downforce, you probably don't need increase in spring rate

contrary to popular belief you want as soft a rate as you can get away with in order to comply with road irregularities, the reason racing applications use much harder spring rates than road cars is because tracks have very well maintained surfaces and they don't have much travel in the system due to minimizing CoG as a design goal

if you do that in a road car you will have massive load shifts on bumps as well as lose tire contact with the road when going over irregular road surfaces which will lead to worse grip and worse handling

your tires & suspension should be matched. Having really grippy tires but soft suspension will lead to more body roll simply because you're generating more lateral Gs. Having stiff suspension but on shitty tires will just give you a crazy bumpy ride for no reason since you're just losing suspension travel and you have no hope of generating much lateral G


if body roll is what's bugging you (which i doubt, and it really shouldn't unless you're riding on bumpstops) adjustable anti roll bars are a cheap option to dial some of that out while giving option to tune for under/over steer

[Cheech666]

Originally Posted by Knifeedge2k1

does your car have an LSD ? that's gonna be probably the biggest upgrade aside from tires

coilovers alone probably aren't going to give you what you're looking for if you already have an M340i with msport suspension

unless you're tracking your car often or have insane amount of aero downforce, you probably don't need increase in spring rate

contrary to popular belief you want as soft a rate as you can get away with in order to comply with road irregularities, the reason racing applications use much harder spring rates than road cars is because tracks have very well maintained surfaces and they don't have much travel in the system due to minimizing CoG as a design goal

if you do that in a road car you will have massive load shifts on bumps as well as lose tire contact with the road when going over irregular road surfaces which will lead to worse grip and worse handling

your tires & suspension should be matched. Having really grippy tires but soft suspension will lead to more body roll simply because you're generating more lateral Gs. Having stiff suspension but on shitty tires will just give you a crazy bumpy ride for no reason since you're just losing suspension travel and you have no hope of generating much lateral G


if body roll is what's bugging you (which i doubt, and it really shouldn't unless you're riding on bumpstops) adjustable anti roll bars are a cheap option to dial some of that out while giving option to tune for under/over steer

Body roll is my problem after installing the eibach spring on my m sport suspension. Im using 245/35/20 pirelli p zero fronts 275/30/20 michellin super sport in the rear. Whats the best recommendation here?

[xnick101]

Kw v2 coils ride like a cloud. They feel absolutely amazing. However, I am not sure if that will fix your body roll issue. But KW coils are REALLY good.

[Chubbiejones]

Originally Posted by Cheech666

Body roll is my problem after installing the eibach spring on my m sport suspension. Im using 245/35/20 pirelli p zero fronts 275/30/20 michellin super sport in the rear. Whats the best recommendation here?

If your vehicle has XDrive you can purchase a set of H&R sway bars locally within the USA, but if your vehicle is only 2wd then you are out of luck unless you purchase a set of Eibach sway bars from Europe.

[Knifeedge2k1]

Originally Posted by Cheech666

Body roll is my problem after installing the eibach spring on my m sport suspension. Im using 245/35/20 pirelli p zero fronts 275/30/20 michellin super sport in the rear. Whats the best recommendation here?

i saw on one of your other posts you have bad roads, get some thick swaybars

contrary to popular belief swaybars aren't magic, they'll still contribute to more harshness ... but not as much as stiffer shock/spring setup

first thing i would say for you is calibrate your perception of what a proper/improper amount of body roll is. Most people think if a car corners "flat" then it minimizes load transfer ... which is bullshit. Load transfer occurs regardless of whether you have roll or not, the roll itself contributes only slightly to the overall load transfer and is largely negligible in terms of how much it decreases grip at low roll angles.

At a certain point though as well, perception matters. No matter how much I explain or prove to you that body roll doesn't contribute much to performance, if you feel unhappy/sad when you feel the slightest bit of body roll ... well that's the way you feel. For a personal car the feeling matters more than the absolute given none of us are properly racing/competing.

If you have bad roads, I HEAVILY recommend you get stiffer sways before considering stiffening the shock/spring. It's not perfect because as mentioned, you lose some independence in the left right direction but that really only affects bump compliance that affects one side of the car and not the other (like potholes) which would be just as affected by stiffer shock/springs anyways.

Having adjustability in the sway is SUPER important, I'd say minimum 4 holes per side of the car (front 3, 1 rear, 2 front 2 rear, 1 front 3 rear). This is something that allows you to tune the limit handling behavior (whether you under/oversteer) which coilovers actually can't do (adjustable damping on coilovers however do allow you to tune the dynamic handling, how the car reacts in transitions). To tune limit handling using the shock/spring requires you to use different stiffness springs which isn't a simple job.

[Knifeedge2k1]

Originally Posted by Chubbiejones

If your vehicle has XDrive you can purchase a set of H&R sway bars locally within the USA, but if your vehicle is only 2wd then you are out of luck unless you purchase a set of Eibach sway bars from Europe.

wouldn't all the xdrive bars fit the standard car ? problems are more likely to exist in the other direction no ?

[Chubbiejones]

I started a thread about this very subject many months prior - take a quick peek:

Aftermarket Sway Bars https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1897303

[0Geedorah]

Originally Posted by xnick101

Kw v2 coils ride like a cloud. They feel absolutely amazing. However, I am not sure if that will fix your body roll issue. But KW coils are REALLY good.

Do you have the KW V2s installed on your car?

[0Geedorah]

Originally Posted by Knifeedge2k1

i saw on one of your other posts you have bad roads, get some thick swaybars

contrary to popular belief swaybars aren't magic, they'll still contribute to more harshness ... but not as much as stiffer shock/spring setup

first thing i would say for you is calibrate your perception of what a proper/improper amount of body roll is. Most people think if a car corners "flat" then it minimizes load transfer ... which is bullshit. Load transfer occurs regardless of whether you have roll or not, the roll itself contributes only slightly to the overall load transfer and is largely negligible in terms of how much it decreases grip at low roll angles.

At a certain point though as well, perception matters. No matter how much I explain or prove to you that body roll doesn't contribute much to performance, if you feel unhappy/sad when you feel the slightest bit of body roll ... well that's the way you feel. For a personal car the feeling matters more than the absolute given none of us are properly racing/competing.

If you have bad roads, I HEAVILY recommend you get stiffer sways before considering stiffening the shock/spring. It's not perfect because as mentioned, you lose some independence in the left right direction but that really only affects bump compliance that affects one side of the car and not the other (like potholes) which would be just as affected by stiffer shock/springs anyways.

Having adjustability in the sway is SUPER important, I'd say minimum 4 holes per side of the car (front 3, 1 rear, 2 front 2 rear, 1 front 3 rear). This is something that allows you to tune the limit handling behavior (whether you under/oversteer) which coilovers actually can't do (adjustable damping on coilovers however do allow you to tune the dynamic handling, how the car reacts in transitions). To tune limit handling using the shock/spring requires you to use different stiffness springs which isn't a simple job.

So what is the option then for when you have a spring/coilover setup, but there are not sway bars available? My car is RWD, and based on the forum posts, it seems like there isn't a kit available for my car in the USA.

[Knifeedge2k1]

Originally Posted by 0Geedorah

So what is the option then for when you have a spring/coilover setup, but there are not sway bars available? My car is RWD, and based on the forum posts, it seems like there isn't a kit available for my car in the USA.

there isn't one

i'm 90% sure the problem is in your head and body roll isn't actually an issue

There's only a few things you can do to change your roll stiffness

1) sway/anti-roll bars (cheapest)
2) coilovers with stiffer springs (pricey)
3) changing your suspension geometry (so expensive no one does it)

If you're trying to dial out every degree of body roll out, you WILL end up with a stupidly undriveable car.

I am on the G30 platform and not the G20 but I don't understand how a swaybar that will fit the x drive can possible not fit the RWD ... The x drive has MORE stuff taking up space that the RWD doesn't so anything that can fit the xdrive to me will fit the RWD.

at the end of the day, do your own research, check out this for starters

30i RWD front sways
https://bimmercat.com/bmw/en/search/...8D/ECE/31_1556
30i AWD front sways
https://bimmercat.com/bmw/en/search/...6D/ECE/31_1556

30i RWD rear sways
https://bimmercat.com/bmw/en/search/...8D/ECE/33_2303
30i AWD rear sways
https://bimmercat.com/bmw/en/search/...6D/ECE/33_2303

so you can see the rear sways are the same for AWD and RWD model but for the front the part numbers are different. That doesn't neccesarily mean that the parts cannot transplant however.

Again, it's understandable how a part made for the RWD may not fit on the AWD as the AWD car has more components and thus there may be interference. However, anything that's on the RWD car is also in the AWD car and probably in the same place so I would argue that any sway that fits the AWD car will fit the RWD car. I can't verify this 100% but there are SOME BMW part numbers which do fit on both RWD and AWD models

https://bimmercat.com/bmw/en/parts/i...0581/appliance

So while I can't say with 100% certainty that an AWD front sway in the aftermarket will definitely fit on the RWD, I'd be more than willing to just buy it without doing further investigations if it was my car and my money.

[xnick101]

Originally Posted by 0Geedorah

Do you have the KW V2s installed on your car?

Not on this car but I have been in multiple bmw's that had them. F and E series cars.

[Cheech666]

I have no body roll no more, dont know if the springs settled or when i installed the 20 rim with wider tires it just got better.

Now i want to eliminate vibration at highway speeds. Will maybe go for bilsten t1 coilovers

[Cheech666]

Originally Posted by Knifeedge2k1

i saw on one of your other posts you have bad roads, get some thick swaybars

contrary to popular belief swaybars aren't magic, they'll still contribute to more harshness ... but not as much as stiffer shock/spring setup

first thing i would say for you is calibrate your perception of what a proper/improper amount of body roll is. Most people think if a car corners "flat" then it minimizes load transfer ... which is bullshit. Load transfer occurs regardless of whether you have roll or not, the roll itself contributes only slightly to the overall load transfer and is largely negligible in terms of how much it decreases grip at low roll angles.

At a certain point though as well, perception matters. No matter how much I explain or prove to you that body roll doesn't contribute much to performance, if you feel unhappy/sad when you feel the slightest bit of body roll ... well that's the way you feel. For a personal car the feeling matters more than the absolute given none of us are properly racing/competing.

If you have bad roads, I HEAVILY recommend you get stiffer sways before considering stiffening the shock/spring. It's not perfect because as mentioned, you lose some independence in the left right direction but that really only affects bump compliance that affects one side of the car and not the other (like potholes) which would be just as affected by stiffer shock/springs anyways.

Having adjustability in the sway is SUPER important, I'd say minimum 4 holes per side of the car (front 3, 1 rear, 2 front 2 rear, 1 front 3 rear). This is something that allows you to tune the limit handling behavior (whether you under/oversteer) which coilovers actually can't do (adjustable damping on coilovers however do allow you to tune the dynamic handling, how the car reacts in transitions). To tune limit handling using the shock/spring requires you to use different stiffness springs which isn't a simple job.

Im going to try to install the bilsten t1 to have adjustability on the dampers. Let's see how it goes. Ive talked to shop owners here about sway bars and they tell me its not needed. But ive never used them so who knows maybe its just what i'd love to have.

Car feels much better now after eibach settled a bit more

Ill keep you guys updated

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Cheech666

I have no body roll no more, dont know if the springs settled or when i installed the 20 rim with wider tires it just got better.

Now i want to eliminate vibration at highway speeds. Will maybe go for bilsten t1 coilovers

first you have body roll then you have body roll no more ...



anyway have fun

[Drowsy]

Well, I know this is a late response but I can tell you KW Coil overs may be the best route to go to lower your G20. I have multiple friends who own an M340i and are running H&R Springs and say the height is amazing, however, it's pretty bumpy within the car. Soooo, I instead got KW V1 Coil overs and it's pretty amazing! Car rides amazing, not bumpy, adjustable...etc.

[zzdanny]

Originally Posted by DominicTeas

Well, I know this is a late response but I can tell you KW Coil overs may be the best route to go to lower your G20. I have multiple friends who own an M340i and are running H&R Springs and say the height is amazing, however, it's pretty bumpy within the car. Soooo, I instead got KW V1 Coil overs and it's pretty amazing! Car rides amazing, not bumpy, adjustable...etc.

Can you post a pic, would love to see the amount of drop

[Boris0126]

+1

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by zzdanny

Can you post a pic, would love to see the amount of drop

its been a year since the post you quoted and the user's last activity on the forums was 3 months ago. Im doubtful he will respond.