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      07-22-2020, 06:25 PM   #1
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In regards to posts about the new i4, without a great charging network, I cant see i4 achieving high volume. Its not to see bmw cannot create a scaled charging network. For now tesla seems to be way ahead.
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      07-22-2020, 09:03 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
Without a great charging network, the i4 will not achieve high volume.
Only Tesla has an actual worthy charging network

Every other auto manufacturer is challenged without a robust charging network

And Rivian is the only company with the balls to approach Tesla for access to their worldwide supercharger network
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      07-22-2020, 09:25 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Only Tesla has an actual worthy charging network

Every other auto manufacturer is challenged without a robust charging network

And Rivian is the only company with the balls to approach Tesla for access to their worldwide supercharger network
I think other manufacturers including bmw could have a good network if they leverage existing networks at hotels and other sites, and they could direct drivers to them via nav, they wouldn't often be fast charging like tesla, but it could bridge the gap.
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      07-22-2020, 11:02 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
I think other manufacturers including bmw could have a good network if they leverage existing networks at hotels and other sites, and they could direct drivers to them via nav, they wouldn't often be fast charging like tesla, but it could bridge the gap.
BMW unfortunately has done little to nothing to build up the CCS charging network they expect their customers to use
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      07-22-2020, 11:21 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
BMW has done little to nothing to build up the CCS charging network they expect their customers to use
BMW might be waiting for regulations to come in place where all old & new petrol stations being "forced" to have charging available at their stations obviously for a cost.

In Sweden we are seeing this more and more but not by regulations but because the petrol stations choose to invest in electric charging all between 50-150 kw chargers.

So this might be why BMW is not planning on extensive building of charging networks like Tesla.
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      07-23-2020, 12:47 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Nahlem View Post
BMW might be waiting for regulations to come in place where all old & new petrol stations being "forced" to have charging available at their stations obviously for a cost.

In Sweden we are seeing this more and more but not by regulations but because the petrol stations choose to invest in electric charging all between 50-150 kw chargers.

So this might be why BMW is not planning on extensive building of charging networks like Tesla.
BMW will never spend the money that Tesla has spent on their Supercharger network to build up CCS

Tesla has everyone beat in the EV game of monopoly... Batteries and worldwide superchargers

Rivian however is the first company to be smart enough to ask Tesla for rights to use it
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      07-23-2020, 07:59 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahlem View Post
In Sweden we are seeing this more and more but not by regulations but because the petrol stations choose to invest in electric charging all between 50-150 kw chargers.

So this might be why BMW is not planning on extensive building of charging networks like Tesla.
Based on the US experience I'm not sure that's the right approach. Gas station are usually small and not designed for someone to sit there for 20+ minutes (while the owner has nothing to do).

Tesla usually have charging near more random places (as most people in US can charge at home so long range charge is really for road trip), and try to be near hotel/restaurant/coffee shop so people are not 100% bored for 20 minutes.

I think tesla is pretty good in the now, most people's daily commute is less than 100 miles and since you plug overnight range anxiety is not really a problem. I wouldn't take tesla on road trip but I know a lot friend did.

Though back on i4, really hopeful that bmw won't launch my disappointment but my hope is not high
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      07-23-2020, 07:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
I think other manufacturers including bmw could have a good network if they leverage existing networks at hotels and other sites, and they could direct drivers to them via nav, they wouldn't often be fast charging like tesla, but it could bridge the gap.
Ford is stating over 13,500 charging locations at this time for the launch of the Mach E. Until that car is reviewed, it's too soon to count it out simply because of the badge. The early info/specs are impressive.
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      07-25-2020, 10:16 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Only Tesla has an actual worthy charging network

Every other auto manufacturer is challenged without a robust charging network

And Rivian is the only company with the balls to approach Tesla for access to their worldwide supercharger network
With Tesla suing Rivian I'm not sure that is going to happen.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/07...ight-heats-up/
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      07-25-2020, 11:08 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Only Tesla has an actual worthy charging network

Every other auto manufacturer is challenged without a robust charging network

And Rivian is the only company with the balls to approach Tesla for access to their worldwide supercharger network
With Tesla suing Rivian I'm not sure that is going to happen.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/07...ight-heats-up/
I saw that the other day

Not going to stop a deal necessarily

Apple filed suit against Samsung and they still use them as a supplier
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      07-25-2020, 11:12 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by USA-RET View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Only Tesla has an actual worthy charging network

Every other auto manufacturer is challenged without a robust charging network

And Rivian is the only company with the balls to approach Tesla for access to their worldwide supercharger network
With Tesla suing Rivian I'm not sure that is going to happen.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/07...ight-heats-up/
I saw that the other day

Not going to stop a deal necessarily

Apple filed suit against Samsung and they still use them as a supplier
Rivian also has Amazon backing them. Wonder if it will be the fight of the Billionaires. Bezos vs Musk
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      07-25-2020, 11:19 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by USA-RET View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Only Tesla has an actual worthy charging network

Every other auto manufacturer is challenged without a robust charging network

And Rivian is the only company with the balls to approach Tesla for access to their worldwide supercharger network
With Tesla suing Rivian I'm not sure that is going to happen.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/07...ight-heats-up/
I saw that the other day

Not going to stop a deal necessarily

Apple filed suit against Samsung and they still use them as a supplier
Rivian also has Amazon backing them. Wonder if it will be the fight of the Billionaires. Bezos vs Musk
I am aware of that interesting factoid

Tesla has the upper hand with Supercharger network worldwide as well as Battery design and production advantages
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      07-25-2020, 02:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
I am aware of that interesting factoid

Tesla has the upper hand with Supercharger network worldwide as well as Battery design and production advantages
With Rivian allegedly stealing tech while hired to work on designs for Tesla and then come out as a competitor in EV manufacturing...I know I would not want to grant them usage of my charging network. Like stealing seed from your barn and then asking if they use your land to plant the crop..........
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      07-25-2020, 03:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USA-RET View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
I am aware of that interesting factoid

Tesla has the upper hand with Supercharger network worldwide as well as Battery design and production advantages
With Rivian allegedly stealing tech while hired to work on designs for Tesla and then come out as a competitor in EV manufacturing...I know I would not want to grant them usage of my charging network. Like stealing seed from your barn and then asking if they use your land to plant the crop..........
Rivian stole several key employees who used their insider knowledge to get hired at Rivian. And I don't blame them.

I'm not sure Tesla will prevail in court. As it's an issue with Ex Tesla Employees violating their noncompete agreement.

Rivian is free to hire just anyone they desire to hire with little backlash if any.
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      07-25-2020, 10:38 PM   #15
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Tesla's long term plan has always included the charging infrastructure. They made their tech open to all intentionally to encourage (and force) other manufacturers to get on the same standard so that all electric vehicles would use Tesla superchargers. Manufacturers have been fighting getting locked into this, which is why we have like 5 different charging standards right now, but if Tesla succeeds then the i4, Polestar, Rivian, etc will all use Tesla superchargers. Consumers + Tesla win, everyone else sorta maybe loses.

If BMW simply adapted Tesla's standard and mapped GPS routing to it and such like Teslas do, the whole electric revolution would move faster.
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      07-26-2020, 06:29 AM   #16
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I’m curious to see if/how BMW incentivizes fast charging for the i4/iNext when they launch, similar to what they did with the ChargeNow program for the i3/i8. The free supercharging is one of the nicer perks Tesla offers (if you buy at the right time). Thankfully I live in an area with several free Level 2 options, as well as having a Level 2 charger at home for my 530e, but maybe BMW will offer a little incentive for fast charging while on road trips.
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      07-26-2020, 08:51 AM   #17
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I’m curious to see if/how BMW incentivizes fast charging for the i4/iNext when they launch, similar to what they did with the ChargeNow program for the i3/i8. The free supercharging is one of the nicer perks Tesla offers (if you buy at the right time). Thankfully I live in an area with several free Level 2 options, as well as having a Level 2 charger at home for my 530e, but maybe BMW will offer a little incentive for fast charging while on road trips.
Even if you have to pay for Supercharging its still much cheaper than regular public chargers. I remember in Matt Farah's review he paid $52 to charge a Taycan, most Supercharger's are usually less than $20 and are automatically synced with your Tesla account, no need to download and app or use a specific card/cord.
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      08-05-2020, 08:25 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Rivian stole several key employees who used their insider knowledge to get hired at Rivian. And I don't blame them.

I'm not sure Tesla will prevail in court. As it's an issue with Ex Tesla Employees violating their noncompete agreement.

Rivian is free to hire just anyone they desire to hire with little backlash if any.
Very true, however Tesla claims these employees (just prior to leaving Tesla) downloaded sensitive info to thumb drives or mailed said info to their personal email accounts and shared that info with Rivian. Those employees supposedly signed non-disclosure agreements with Tesla prior to leaving.

Naturally Rivian denies the claim hence the lawsuit. We shall see how this shakes out in court. I really doubt Tesla will share their charging network (or anything else) with Rivian regardless of who prevails in court.
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      08-05-2020, 10:40 AM   #19
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Very true, however Tesla claims these employees (just prior to leaving Tesla) downloaded sensitive info to thumb drives or mailed said info to their personal email accounts and shared that info with Rivian. Those employees supposedly signed non-disclosure agreements with Tesla prior to leaving.

Naturally Rivian denies the claim hence the lawsuit. We shall see how this shakes out in court. I really doubt Tesla will share their charging network (or anything else) with Rivian regardless of who prevails in court.
I guess we'll have to wait and see

Non-disclosure agreements are signed at the point of hiring
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      08-06-2020, 09:12 AM   #20
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I guess we'll have to wait and see

Non-disclosure agreements are signed at the point of hiring
Maybe it was a non-compete or something else (whatever it's called) that prevented employees leaving Tesla to transfer/share sensitive information to competitors.
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      10-12-2020, 07:08 AM   #21
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...Superchargers are usually less than $20 and are automatically synced with your Tesla account, no need to download and app or use a specific card/cord.
Based on the Taycan owner road trip reports I’ve read, the lack of standardized charging networks is likely to remain a significant issue for non-Tesla EVs.
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      10-12-2020, 05:40 PM   #22
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McDonalds is missing the opportunity... in the U.S. alone, there is a McDs off nearly every major interstate exit. They need to start their own network. I’ll have a Big Mac, fries, coffee, and 30 minutes of electricity.
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