[Eric500]

Originally Posted by MT4life

Let's see how bad it really is in G20. Even though I got HK stereo in my current car I can't imagine the base one is so terrible, maybe I'm wrong

The only time I have listened to the base audio are in loaner cars, which have been F30 320i and G30 X3. They weren't great and I could definitely tell the difference getting back my F15 X5.

When I got my X5, HK was only a $875 option which was perfect! Gone are those days...

[MT4life]

Originally Posted by Eric Tsang

The only time I have listened to the base audio are in loaner cars, which have been F30 320i and G30 X3. They weren't great and I could definitely tell the difference getting back my F15 X5.

When I got my X5, HK was only a $875 option which was perfect! Gone are those days...

Come to think of it I'm sure I listened to base audio while driving Service Loaners. Hmm I guess I didn't notice.

[chickennuggets]

Originally Posted by KTN

I believe HUD was mentioned which is anything but useless especially for keeping your eyes on the road for spirited driving.

The HUD doesn't include a tach, right? I find that the most important measurement I can't see when spirited driving myself.

Originally Posted by Transfer

The 2018 and 2019 330i have the exact same starting price. Just don't add options if you don't want to pay $50k. I do see a little bit of the point complaining about 4 cyl with my view being if we have to have a turbo 4, at least tune it to 280 hp or something. Plenty of smaller cars with high output turbo 4s are doing this. But the general market doesn't care about HP so the power train has to be just good enough.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm guessing here.

I got a 2018 330i in august, with a sticker of 47,000~ lowered down to 39,000-- close to fully loaded.

That's a good deal for a 4 banger bimmer. Much more than that, I think people could argue is too high for something that's not a I6. It's subjective, but I would agree to that argument.

Also we are in year 1 of a new chassis and factory, it's my understanding that you will not be able to get as steep of a discount off sticker as I did for a while.

I'm not trying to downplay the G20, it'll more than likely be my next car. But I do think a loaded price of 50k+ is hard to swallow.

[MT4life]

Originally Posted by chickennuggets

The HUD doesn't include a tach, right? I find that the most important measurement I can't see when spirited driving myself.



Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm guessing here.

I got a 2018 330i in august, with a sticker of 47,000~ lowered down to 39,000-- close to fully loaded.

That's a good deal for a 4 banger bimmer. Much more than that, I think people could argue is too high for something that's not a I6. It's subjective, but I would agree to that argument.

Also we are in year 1 of a new chassis and factory, it's my understanding that you will not be able to get as steep of a discount off sticker as I did for a while.

I'm not trying to downplay the G20, it'll more than likely be my next car. But I do think a loaded price of 50k+ is hard to swallow.

Absolutely, 39K is a fantastic buy. A few thousand more than a fully loaded Accord and Camry. Makes total sense.
56 is insane. BMWUSA better have some heavily subsidized leases like c class MB where you get a 50K c300 for 399 a month

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by chickennuggets

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm guessing here.

I got a 2018 330i in august, with a sticker of 47,000~ lowered down to 39,000-- close to fully loaded.

15%-20% is great, and it is easier to get those big discounts on I4 than I6 based on ample supply.

As far as new model discounts, my 2013 F30 328i MSRP $43k custom order was $37k, or 14% off, in Nov 2012(at start of 2013 model year, and 7-8 months since US F30 deliveries in Feb 2012).

So just be patient on G20 and see what discounts will show up.

[bavarianride]

Also note that I6 being less supply than I4 usually does not come with 15-20% off, so that adds to price premium of I6.

Having said that, I6 base usually has better resale than optioned up I4(% wise), so if u want the HP/lb-ft, just grab a I6 instead of option up + mod a I4.

[Sherweeeny]

Originally Posted by golf_234

Where I think you are wrong is in objectively comparing the actual experience each of those cars as similar. Simply not fair. When you really put the looking glass on it, the 340i is absolute brilliance, from sound to power delivery to the zf 8 speed, it is quite near perfect. Brilliance is the word I would use to describe that car.

I bought a 328 when the f30 was first released and then 4 years in bought a 340. I have extensive experience with both cars. my first car was a straight 6 E36 so the 6cyl tugs on my heart strings as much, if not more than the next person, but im not delusional. the 4cyl has its pros and cons and so does the 6cyl. i was responding to that insecure guy who was judging people in 4cyl 5 series so if youre basing your argument on a 5 series, then the car will be for normal road use and the performance difference when youre going for the gap in traffic is genuinely negligible in either car (and yep, theres lag in both if you catch off guard). On twisty mountain roads, i actually enjoyed throwing the 4cyl in more as you can do it quite viscously and it literally picks itself up and continues hustling on to the redline quickly and as linearly as the 6 but without the hesitation or understeer (on damp roads or if you throw it super aggressively). Maybe its you whos only sampled the 330 as a loaner that needs to do some of your own in person research. i just think it must be a bunch of old dudes resistant to change here trying to justify themselves by talking down things they dont have experience with. The only time I could tell a difference was on the biggest track we have here where the 4cyl ran out of puff on the straight in comparison to the 6. On the smaller more technical tracks, the 4 was just as enjoyable if not more enjoyable - but im biased on throwing light cars around as my track car is a turbo miata.

Now that i think about it, the only reason i bought the 340 is for the noise, which takes us back to the heart strings bit at the start of my reply, but for 99.9% of people who arent like me and a few whiners on this forum, the 4cyl will be as much car they will ever need.

Originally Posted by golf_234

The 330i , yes, it is good, but not even remotely would I give it that same kind of review. Totally different purpose and style of car. Is it nice yes, would I call it close to providing the same experience as the B58 6 Cyl, not in any sense. Drive both back to back and really observe the experience that you have critically and with detail, and it is not a fair thing to compare. Proper advice would be, both are nice, and they appear similar on paper, but are an absolutely different experience, and a person really needs to drive both extensively to form an opinion. Much more than back in the day when it was more or less just scaled versions of N/A i6's

Yes exactly, you should drive both for multiple years on road and track like i have and come back to me once you have formed your first hand opinion, i couldnt agree more.

[openwheelracing]

Hold on a second, no one says there is no place for the 4 banger. We are simply saying there is no reason for a 56K 4 banger in 2019. This same debate happened 3 years ago, 5 years ago, and in 2012. In fact, I did two EDs with two separate 320i. Nothing wrong with a 4 banger. As someone who has had both in multiple iterations, I can say for a fact an inline 6 sounds and feel like no 4 banger ever will.

[HighlandPete]

Many of 3, 4 and 5-series cars will be driving 15 - 30k miles a year, drivers have a preference to be in a premium car. Engine wise, the 4-cylinder engines (petrol and diesel) will adequately do the job at a sensible cost.

The N55 I6 has always been a pretty rare engine over here. I looked to buy an E91 335i wagon, the dealer advised not to buy a new one as depreciation was horrendous in our UK market. I tried to find a nearly new one, only one to a specification that I'd buy into, in the whole UK during the year I was looking.

A few more enthusiasts are currently buying into the 340i/440i models over here, but it's still a small market, compared to the 320d/420d models, which are the most popular buys.

[golf_234]

Originally Posted by openwheelracing

Hold on a second, no one says there is no place for the 4 banger. We are simply saying there is no reason for a 56K 4 banger in 2019. This same debate happened 3 years ago, 5 years ago, and in 2012. In fact, I did two EDs with two separate 320i. Nothing wrong with a 4 banger. As someone who has had both in multiple iterations, I can say for a fact an inline 6 sounds and feel like no 4 banger ever will.

This is the major thing. There is nothing wrong with the 4, and it puts out the performance even. And of course for the vast array of drivers is just fine. But this.

A weird observation having my 340i in for the shop though, noticed the 330i loaner has really gone through a tank of gas quickly, seemingly quicker than my norm. Maybe it's been extra "spirited" driving.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by golf_234

A weird observation having my 340i in for the shop though, noticed the 330i loaner has really gone through a tank of gas quickly, seemingly quicker than my norm. Maybe it's been extra "spirited" driving.

Maybe it was previously refueled with AKI 87?

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Many of 3, 4 and 5-series cars will be driving 15 - 30k miles a year, drivers have a preference to be in a premium car. Engine wise, the 4-cylinder engines (petrol and diesel) will adequately do the job at a sensible cost.

The N55 I6 has always been a pretty rare engine over here. I looked to buy an E91 335i wagon, the dealer advised not to buy a new one as depreciation was horrendous in our UK market. I tried to find a nearly new one, only one to a specification that I'd buy into, in the whole UK during the year I was looking.

A few more enthusiasts are currently buying into the 340i/440i models over here, but it's still a small market, compared to the 320d/420d models, which are the most popular buys.

The love of I6 and V8 is more popular on this side of the pond than yours, and that's what BMWNA has decided to market to US for a long while until I4 turbo on various F-chassis cars.

My impression is that with variable speed limits on the M roads the extra HP/lb-ft of latest gen of I6/V8(or even 250HP/295lb-ft I4) will be unused 99.99% of the time, so the extra price premium won't bring extra fun.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by golf_234

This is the major thing. There is nothing wrong with the 4, and it puts out the performance even. And of course for the vast array of drivers is just fine. But this.

I think the BMW N20/B48 + ZF 8AT is programmed to hide a lot of the sound and feel deficiency of I4. In fact the power band drops off above 5krpm as balancing shafts spin at 10krpm.

[bavarianride]

Post#1 used to have the window sticker for OP's $56k MSRP config, but it is no longer there.

So I tried on bmwusa to see what $56k MSRP can buy and it is a lot:

330i RWD M-sport
Executive Package
Driver Assist Prof Package
Track Handling Package
Premium Package

MSRP $56.7k

That is pretty much every G20 option for 330i included, right?

For someone to pick that config and be happy with it, that person really has to appreciate all the other gadgets on top of base $41.5k MSRP 330i(which is possible in 6 months to drop to $35k-$36k), or what is not to like?

[KTN]

Originally Posted by chickennuggets

The HUD doesn't include a tach, right? I find that the most important measurement I can't see when spirited driving myself.

Above the digital speedo. It's of course fully customizable, so you might also be able to make it "full screen" (might, as in not sure, I haven't tried it yet).


( youtube.com/watch?v=SUjpA_GNe_s )

...

No one has brought it up in this discussion except you.

A stiffer chassis is not gesture control.
An improved suspension is not gesture control.
New steering is not gesture control.
M Sport differential is not gesture control.
Laser headlights are not gesture control.
M Sport brakes are not gesture control.

(I'd write a HUD is not gesture control either, but you seem to get that separated at least)

[chickennuggets]

Originally Posted by KTN

Above the digital speedo. It's of course fully customizable, so you might also be able to make it "full screen" (might, as in not sure, I haven't tried it yet).


( youtube.com/watch?v=SUjpA_GNe_s )

Oh that's super cool. Nevermind, that's a cool option to have.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

The love of I6 and V8 is more popular on this side of the pond than yours, and that's what BMWNA has decided to market to US for a long while until I4 turbo on various F-chassis cars.

My impression is that with variable speed limits on the M roads the extra HP/lb-ft of latest gen of I6/V8(or even 250HP/295lb-ft I4) will be unused 99.99% of the time, so the extra price premium won't bring extra fun.

There is still a degree of desire for a V8 and the I6 over here, but we've virtually been priced out of them, unless we are prepared to pay the taxes and fuel costs.

Problem is, we can't really exploit the performance in typical daily driving. I've run a BMW E39 V8 and still drive an I6, purely out of choice. In all honesty I could manage quite well with a 4-cylinder petrol, in 95% of my typical driving. The I6 is more a 'smile maker' than necessary, to have a car with a 'bit of soul' is worth the extra costs to me. Many don't see it that way, I totally understand that the 4-cylinder motors are adequate to those users.

[golf_234]

To put it bluntly, if people like one or the other that is fine, but the argument that the different cars are similar, whether it is 330i, 340i, or even M for that matter, really needs to be put to bed. None of them are similar in driving, at all. And they are less similar than they have ever been in history. Anyway, different strokes.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak

Bottom Line: For 56K get an M2C.

Fixed that for you.

[mkoesel]

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/an....php?f=650&a=2

Respect. By far the most important rule here. Through the generations of BMW, enthusiasts have come together for the love of the car and the community. So the basic rules of real life apply here, show each other respect and you will get respect as well. Don't bash someone else here because you feel like it. Derogatory or insulting remarks will not be tolerated. This applies to all corners of the site - including posts, profile visitor messages, and thread tags.

Let's agree to stop all the caustic snobbery and abrasive talk directed at people who choose a lower cost vehicle than we do. Not only is it disrespectful, but it is just embarrassing. We can do much better than that.

If you prefer a car with more power or don't happen to care for the attributes of a four cylinder engine, great. But we are not going to insist that economics is the only force at play for those who do choose a vehicle with a four cylinder engine - because it isn't.

If you have further problems integrating with and getting along with fellow enthusiasts who see the world differently than you, please feel free to PM me and I can help walk you through it.

Thank you for your cooperation, and enjoy the forum.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

... a lower cost vehicle than we do.

BMW's alleged lower cost vehicle is the hidden gem with great value.

E.g. In US, a F30 320i 50/50 chassis RWD with ZF 8AT and N20 detuned 180HP/200lb-ft is such a gem.

Throw in ZSP for $29k-$30k, maybe swap in non-RFT summer or new-age RFT that runs like non-RFT. It has BMW DNA and lineage, balanced chassis, spacious cabin, etc, etc. Very nice!

[buckybadger]

For that price, 4 banger is not worth it.