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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions 330i xDrive Car and Driver Review (Not Positive)

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      04-03-2019, 07:53 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by MT4life View Post
That’s a little narrow no?
So if Chevrolet handles better than BMW what does that say about BMW

On that thought I wish BMW would stop subsidizing leases and by that attracting badge whores on a budget
That’s narrow for you to call people ‘badge whore’ so easily. I’ve been driving a camaro for the last 8 days, and it’s a pile of junk. And badges don’t just appear out of nowhere, it’s about quality, trust and history. I drove the G20, it feels faster, more nimble, way better built. If you hate BMW so much that in every topic you will claim that literally everything else is better than BMW, and call people badge whores left or right, you’re obviously a troll. Also, let me remind you that any other G20 review called G20 best in class. I don’t understand what makes this one special. Maybe intense cynicism and trolling?
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      04-03-2019, 08:09 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Cortexiphan View Post
That’s narrow for you to call people ‘badge whore’ so easily. I’ve been driving a camaro for the last 8 days, and it’s a pile of junk. And badges don’t just appear out of nowhere, it’s about quality, trust and history. I drove the G20, it feels faster, more nimble, way better built. If you hate BMW so much that in every topic you will claim that literally everything else is better than BMW, and call people badge whores left or right, you’re obviously a troll. Also, let me remind you that any other G20 review called G20 best in class. I don’t understand what makes this one special. Maybe intense cynicism and trolling?
I take C&D review a lot more seriously than some YouTube freshly-baked reviewer. Like I said in another thread I’ll wait for other real reviews from Chris Harris and others to form a complete opinion about 340 Msport with non RFT tires. 330xi is clearly shaping up to be for a different audience I’m not part of
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      04-03-2019, 08:11 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Cortexiphan View Post
That’s narrow for you to call people ‘badge whore’ so easily. I’ve been driving a camaro for the last 8 days, and it’s a pile of junk. And badges don’t just appear out of nowhere, it’s about quality, trust and history. I drove the G20, it feels faster, more nimble, way better built. If you hate BMW so much that in every topic you will claim that literally everything else is better than BMW, and call people badge whores left or right, you’re obviously a troll. Also, let me remind you that any other G20 review called G20 best in class. I don’t understand what makes this one special. Maybe intense cynicism and trolling?

Don’t get too worked up bro, he’s been shitting on the G20 left and right every chance he gets. Just read what he drives , it'll explain everything.
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      04-03-2019, 09:34 PM   #92
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I don’t care about the quotes. BMW has stiffer suspension and steering than its competitors, and G20 is way stiffer than MB and Audi. I don’t care about other cars mentioned here which I wouldn’t buy even for free, like Chevrolet or Hyundai.
That’s a little narrow no?
So if Chevrolet handles better than BMW what does that say about BMW

On that thought I wish BMW would stop subsidizing leases and by that attracting badge whores on a budget
I believe the days of heavy subsidized BMW lease deals are well over.
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      04-03-2019, 10:54 PM   #93
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I commented the same thing previously, and was told the xDrive M Sport cars come with an M Sport variant of the xDrive suspension now. Or, at the least, that the suspension isn't the same on the M Sport xDrive cars as compared to non-M Sport xDrive cars. Not sure how true this is, but it would be a pleasant surprise (though, it means C&D wasn't pleased with it).
Hmm, I'm very skeptical. First of all, the X-drives have been significantly higher than all the other models, more like subaru out-backs. 10mm lower would make them closer to the normal models in their highest OEM spec, definitely not lower. With no hard data, I'm assuming they are making the x-drives just like they have for the last few years, with no actual sport suspension and only "adaptive dampers" available (and calling that the "sport suspension").
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      04-04-2019, 05:34 AM   #94
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Hmm, I'm very skeptical. First of all, the X-drives have been significantly higher than all the other models, more like subaru out-backs. 10mm lower would make them closer to the normal models in their highest OEM spec, definitely not lower. With no hard data, I'm assuming they are making the x-drives just like they have for the last few years, with no actual sport suspension and only "adaptive dampers" available (and calling that the "sport suspension").
According to BMW's press release, xDrive has the option of the lowered passive M-sport and Adaptive suspension.

This follows the G30 5-series, which does have the lowered (-10mm) passive M-sport option on xDrive models.

Quote:
Another element of the M Sport suspension – which now also applies to the all-wheel-drive model variants of the new BMW 3 Series Sedan – is a 10-millimetre lowering of the car’s ride height.
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      04-04-2019, 06:32 AM   #95
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Don’t get too worked up bro, he’s been shitting on the G20 left and right every chance he gets. Just read what he drives , it'll explain everything.
You haven't even rented your g20 yet and you're already dissing f30?
Like I said I hope BMW stops cheap leases pronto

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      04-04-2019, 07:00 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
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Originally Posted by Pauleebe View Post
I commented the same thing previously, and was told the xDrive M Sport cars come with an M Sport variant of the xDrive suspension now. Or, at the least, that the suspension isn't the same on the M Sport xDrive cars as compared to non-M Sport xDrive cars. Not sure how true this is, but it would be a pleasant surprise (though, it means C&D wasn't pleased with it).
Hmm, I'm very skeptical. First of all, the X-drives have been significantly higher than all the other models, more like subaru out-backs. 10mm lower would make them closer to the normal models in their highest OEM spec, definitely not lower. With no hard data, I'm assuming they are making the x-drives just like they have for the last few years, with no actual sport suspension and only "adaptive dampers" available (and calling that the "sport suspension").
I don't know if you've driven an f30/32/36 xdrive with adaptive sport suspension, but its worlds different than driving an f30 with base suspension. In sport mode the adaptive dampers are actually quite stiff. An f36 xdrive, even with the adaptive dampers in comfort mode, feels much better and more composed to me than the f30 (pre-lci anyway) with base suspension. The caveat being that it's an f36 and I think it actually has other chassis and suspension bits that are different from the f30.
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      04-04-2019, 07:28 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Cortexiphan View Post
That's narrow for you to call people 'badge whore' so easily. I've been driving a camaro for the last 8 days, and it's a pile of junk. And badges don't just appear out of nowhere, it's about quality, trust and history. I drove the G20, it feels faster, more nimble, way better built. If you hate BMW so much that in every topic you will claim that literally everything else is better than BMW, and call people badge whores left or right, you're obviously a troll. Also, let me remind you that any other G20 review called G20 best in class. I don't understand what makes this one special. Maybe intense cynicism and trolling?
I take C&D review a lot more seriously than some YouTube freshly-baked reviewer. Like I said in another thread I'll wait for other real reviews from Chris Harris and others to form a complete opinion about 340 Msport with non RFT tires. 330xi is clearly shaping up to be for a different audience I'm not part of
I've had a love/hate relationship with car and driver for some time now. They produce some good data, and they're material is entertaining at times, but their opinions can be hard to take seriously. For many years they came off as the most obnoxious bmw fanboys imaginable. Bmw was nearly infallible in their eyes, and even when a car came close to approaching bmw 3 series greatness, it seemed to give them panic attacks to acknowledge it. Fast forward to more recent times, and bmw can't seem to do anything right by car and drivers' standards, even when they do.

The problem is it's very difficult to nail down exactly what car and driver's standards are. For a most recent example, the most recent instrumented test I could dig up on the Alfa Romeo Giulia showed that it had 0.79g on the skid pad, yet, other than a passing comment about it, they heap all sorts of praise on the Giulia in regard to its handling prowess. Yet the g20 330i they tested posts 0.89g on the skid pad and they use it as a metric by which to negatively critique the car. This is in spite of the fact that 0.89 is acceptably in line with what other similarly outfitted cars in the segment achieve on the skid pad. Clearly the skid pad isn't the be all end all of how they assess handling, but then why leverage the skid pad data against the g20 330i - even though it achieved a perfectly acceptable score compared to every other similarly spec'd competitor?
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      04-04-2019, 08:46 AM   #98
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I don't know if you've driven an f30/32/36 xdrive with adaptive sport suspension
Yep, read my sig, my F36 had adaptive. If that was light-years better than the base F30, well, that's not saying much. My mods at least got it to an acceptable level, but stock, it was poor. I got the 4 GC because I thought the handling would be closer to a “sports sedan”, despite the x-drive that I needed. IMO, BMW has dropped the ball with this concept when the x-drives are “soft and high”. I don’t need ground clearance for ice. Normal ground clearance is fine unless you are driving off-road, in which case you get an “x” model or something.
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      04-04-2019, 03:23 PM   #99
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I've had a love/hate relationship with car and driver for some time now. They produce some good data, and they're material is entertaining at times, but their opinions can be hard to take seriously. For many years they came off as the most obnoxious bmw fanboys imaginable. Bmw was nearly infallible in their eyes, and even when a car came close to approaching bmw 3 series greatness, it seemed to give them panic attacks to acknowledge it. Fast forward to more recent times, and bmw can't seem to do anything right by car and drivers' standards, even when they do.

The problem is it's very difficult to nail down exactly what car and driver's standards are. For a most recent example, the most recent instrumented test I could dig up on the Alfa Romeo Giulia showed that it had 0.79g on the skid pad, yet, other than a passing comment about it, they heap all sorts of praise on the Giulia in regard to its handling prowess. Yet the g20 330i they tested posts 0.89g on the skid pad and they use it as a metric by which to negatively critique the car. This is in spite of the fact that 0.89 is acceptably in line with what other similarly outfitted cars in the segment achieve on the skid pad. Clearly the skid pad isn't the be all end all of how they assess handling, but then why leverage the skid pad data against the g20 330i - even though it achieved a perfectly acceptable score compared to every other similarly spec'd competitor?
There was a very tangible difference between the E90 and the F30 and that's exactly when C&D's love for BMW was lost. The F10 was the same way compared to the E60. C&D still raved about the M2 and M2C and raved about the F90 when that came out last year.

So I don't think your summary of C&D is correct. They specifically hated on the F30 and the F10 and there was very good reason for that. BMW went to EPS, which no one is blaming them for, but they've been very slow to improve their EPS like Porsche has. For a company that operated on being the "Ultimate Driving Machine" for so long, that's a bit annoying. BMW also decided to just make the suspension super compliant out of nowhere. Even the base E90 had a nice firm suspension that felt good on twisties, but then beginning with the F30, suddenly BMW decided to give us a bunch of body roll. It pleased casual drivers, sure, but that's a tangible reason why C&D wouldn't like it.

Also, regarding your comment about GM only having the Camaro and the Corvette. GM also made the SS on the Zeta and the ATS/CTS on the Alpha platform. Those cars all have more capable chassis than the F30/F10. Though they all have other issues ranging from mild to serious that might detract luxury car buyers. But from a handling/steering standpoint, they beat out BMW for a whole generation of cars.
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      04-04-2019, 03:57 PM   #100
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I don't know if you've driven an f30/32/36 xdrive with adaptive sport suspension, but its worlds different than driving an f30 with base suspension. In sport mode the adaptive dampers are actually quite stiff. An f36 xdrive, even with the adaptive dampers in comfort mode, feels much better and more composed to me than the f30 (pre-lci anyway) with base suspension. The caveat being that it's an f36 and I think it actually has other chassis and suspension bits that are different from the f30.
LOL, I've got to agree with JamesNoBrakes

i have adaptive on my F30 xDrive and it's really floaty and body rolls like crazy. started modding suspension within a month.
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      04-04-2019, 06:34 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
I don't know if you've driven an f30/32/36 xdrive with adaptive sport suspension, but its worlds different than driving an f30 with base suspension. In sport mode the adaptive dampers are actually quite stiff. An f36 xdrive, even with the adaptive dampers in comfort mode, feels much better and more composed to me than the f30 (pre-lci anyway) with base suspension. The caveat being that it's an f36 and I think it actually has other chassis and suspension bits that are different from the f30.
LOL, I've got to agree with JamesNoBrakes

i have adaptive on my F30 xDrive and it's really floaty and body rolls like crazy. started modding suspension within a month.
I suspect that there's a difference between the f36 and f30 xdrive cars then because the f36 with adaptive msport isn't floaty, and body roll isn't pronounced either. It's not absolutely perfect, but it's perfectly acceptable. I also had an f30 xdrive with the base suspension, and that was floaty with very noticeable roll.
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      04-04-2019, 06:45 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
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Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
I've had a love/hate relationship with car and driver for some time now. They produce some good data, and they're material is entertaining at times, but their opinions can be hard to take seriously. For many years they came off as the most obnoxious bmw fanboys imaginable. Bmw was nearly infallible in their eyes, and even when a car came close to approaching bmw 3 series greatness, it seemed to give them panic attacks to acknowledge it. Fast forward to more recent times, and bmw can't seem to do anything right by car and drivers' standards, even when they do.

The problem is it's very difficult to nail down exactly what car and driver's standards are. For a most recent example, the most recent instrumented test I could dig up on the Alfa Romeo Giulia showed that it had 0.79g on the skid pad, yet, other than a passing comment about it, they heap all sorts of praise on the Giulia in regard to its handling prowess. Yet the g20 330i they tested posts 0.89g on the skid pad and they use it as a metric by which to negatively critique the car. This is in spite of the fact that 0.89 is acceptably in line with what other similarly outfitted cars in the segment achieve on the skid pad. Clearly the skid pad isn't the be all end all of how they assess handling, but then why leverage the skid pad data against the g20 330i - even though it achieved a perfectly acceptable score compared to every other similarly spec'd competitor?
There was a very tangible difference between the E90 and the F30 and that's exactly when C&D's love for BMW was lost. The F10 was the same way compared to the E60. C&D still raved about the M2 and M2C and raved about the F90 when that came out last year.

So I don't think your summary of C&D is correct. They specifically hated on the F30 and the F10 and there was very good reason for that. BMW went to EPS, which no one is blaming them for, but they've been very slow to improve their EPS like Porsche has. For a company that operated on being the "Ultimate Driving Machine" for so long, that's a bit annoying. BMW also decided to just make the suspension super compliant out of nowhere. Even the base E90 had a nice firm suspension that felt good on twisties, but then beginning with the F30, suddenly BMW decided to give us a bunch of body roll. It pleased casual drivers, sure, but that's a tangible reason why C&D wouldn't like it.

Also, regarding your comment about GM only having the Camaro and the Corvette. GM also made the SS on the Zeta and the ATS/CTS on the Alpha platform. Those cars all have more capable chassis than the F30/F10. Though they all have other issues ranging from mild to serious that might detract luxury car buyers. But from a handling/steering standpoint, they beat out BMW for a whole generation of cars.
I don't know about the camaro or cadillacs, but I owned a Chevy ss, and drove it daily. It might boast slightly better numbers than my 435i gc, but the ss didn't feel as grounded and body roll was similar with the dampers set to performance (the stiffest setting). I partly attribute that to the size of the ss sedan. The ss handled competently though (like the f36), and I generally enjoyed the Chevy ss. I used to love the starts, especially using the remote start standing behind it (yes I did this often, lol). You can't replicate that with anything less than a big, old school v8.
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      04-04-2019, 06:55 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
I don't know if you've driven an f30/32/36 xdrive with adaptive sport suspension
Yep, read my sig, my F36 had adaptive. If that was light-years better than the base F30, well, that's not saying much. My mods at least got it to an acceptable level, but stock, it was poor. I got the 4 GC because I thought the handling would be closer to a “sports sedan”, despite the x-drive that I needed. IMO, BMW has dropped the ball with this concept when the x-drives are “soft and high”. I don’t need ground clearance for ice. Normal ground clearance is fine unless you are driving off-road, in which case you get an “x” model or something.
My apologies, I can't see your full sig when using the app for some reason. Yes the f30 with base suspension was bad (at least the earlier pre-lci cars). I agree with the harshest critics on that. It handled like a utility van in a wind storm. The f36 xdrive with sport adaptive dampers is night and day better. To me it's hard to believe it's even the same chassis.
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      04-04-2019, 08:55 PM   #104
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You shouldn't have to add a track handling package to make the car drive like a BMW. It should come that way. After owning two 3 series, I bought a V6 Genesis. It's better as most of the reviews say. Plus I got tired of paying extra for every little thing on a BMW. They need to change that mindset.
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      04-04-2019, 09:27 PM   #105
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You shouldn't have to add a track handling package to make the car drive like a BMW. It should come that way. After owning two 3 series, I bought a V6 Genesis. It's better as most of the reviews say. Plus I got tired of paying extra for every little thing on a BMW. They need to change that mindset.
That’s BMW trying to cover all the bases...
You have multiple options to tailor it as you see fit.

If you want a driver focused car then you know what boxes to tick,
same if you want a Lexus like feel...

The downside is if you don’t know what to pick, or you grab something
off the lot with preselected options.

There’s pros and cons to that approach.
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      04-04-2019, 10:46 PM   #106
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Without going into too much detail and having to write an essay on a forum, all I can say is, currently owning a R56 MINI, E90 3er and F36 4er Gran Coupe and getting to drive a G20 330i everyday, I strongly disagree with the C&D article.

I have a love/hate relationship with BMW and have no issue calling BMW out on things so I can call it as I see it. To me, the article is borderline hating. Behind all that text, all I read is the writer wishes he could take a C-Class and slap a BMW badge on it and call it the perfect car.

For me at the end of the day, is the G20 better than the F30 out of the gate? Absolutely. No question. Does the G20 330i xDrive drive as well, if not better than my F36 440i? It some aspects it does. The G20 should have been the car that succeeded the E90. It corrects a lot of things wrong with the F3X and in some aspects, it reminds me very closely to the E90 and that's something I could not even say or hint with my F36 and any F3X 3/4er.
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      04-04-2019, 10:49 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martyl View Post
You shouldn't have to add a track handling package to make the car drive like a BMW. It should come that way. After owning two 3 series, I bought a V6 Genesis. It's better as most of the reviews say. Plus I got tired of paying extra for every little thing on a BMW. They need to change that mindset.
BMW has had to live up to the "ultimate driving machine" hype they created. Mercedes created compact luxury vehicles that rode like silk...and they floated, bobbed, dipped and dived just like you'd think with those spring rates. They made sporty versions too, but they never said the C or E class was the "ultimate driving machine". BMW put out that moniker. So earlier 3-series cars were nice and tight driving machines, but with all they hype they've shot themselves in the foot going forward in the direction they are taking. I don't agree that you should have to go to a M3 to get a nice tight driving machine or that you need 400hp, modern turbos that give a lot of good torque down low are plenty and with a responsive and well tuned chassis, can be a lot of fun. But then you have to stretch out the gears at some point to get decent efficiency, so it's hard not to have something sacrificed. But older 3-series were pretty good all around. My brother's E90 was pretty fun, drove like it was on rails (in a good way). Made me want to get a BMW...except they took a huge nosedive at the same time.

Hell, it's not so much that I can disagree with them selling the public what they want, watered down platforms and SUVs for people to play with their phones in, but for the love of god, stop calling them the "ultimate driving machine".

I remember when I ordered the "track handling package", which was simply the adaptive dampers. Got the "oh, you don't need that unless you are using it on a track" line from the salesperson. That person had no freaking clue...this car, even with adaptive dampers, is so far removed from a track car that anyone that says that should be punched in the mouth immediately. My 2SS 1LE is lightyears ahead in that regard...as it should be though, as it's not masquerading as a sedan.
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      04-04-2019, 10:49 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by BigSky702 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyl View Post
You shouldn't have to add a track handling package to make the car drive like a BMW. It should come that way. After owning two 3 series, I bought a V6 Genesis. It's better as most of the reviews say. Plus I got tired of paying extra for every little thing on a BMW. They need to change that mindset.
That’s BMW trying to cover all the bases...
You have multiple options to tailor it as you see fit.

If you want a driver focused car then you know what boxes to tick,
same if you want a Lexus like feel...

The downside is if you don’t know what to pick, or you grab something
off the lot with preselected options.

There’s pros and cons to that approach.
Exactly. It's funny when people make comments like, "bmw has forsaken their identity just to increase their profits." Well, they're a publicly traded corporation, so if they don't increase their profits they'll eventually cease to exist. Go look at which vehicles are carrying the majority of their growth as it is....it's not the 3 series by a wide margin. We should be surprised that they still invested as much as they did into developing the g20.
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      04-05-2019, 12:24 AM   #109
buckybadger
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I had it as a loaner and I feel it has grown in size. I felt suspension was quite supple and glided over bumps. Although steering was light, it had a very consistent and precise feeling.

Backseat is tight, felt less legroom than my F30. The digital dash is good but I didn't like the glare (see pic).

Overall it was a decent improvement in the direction of precision and balanced ride. It's fast and does the job but lacks the personality of the 3 series of yesteryears.

Need to wait for the M340i and M3 now.
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      04-05-2019, 06:44 AM   #110
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M3 Pure better not come with ugly AF dash.
Perhaps there's a way to retrofit a normal dash into 340
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