[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by TheFatArmadillo

I see you continuing to post this. I found the exact opposite. Drove an S4 for years with the B&O. It was unimpressive.

While the LCI H&K isn’t going to win any competitions, I’ve found it to be about 20% better than the B&O it replaced.

Not sure what year S4 you had, but I've owned B9 and B9.5 S4, S5 (both coupe an Sportback), an an M340i. The B&O is better hands down. Something must have been wrong with your system if you thought the HK in a G20 is 20% better lol. Did you maybe have a B8/B8.5 S4?

[TheFatArmadillo]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

Not sure what year S4 you had, but I've owned B9 and B9.5 S4, S5 (both coupe an Sportback), an an M340i. The B&O is better hands down. Something must have been wrong with your system if you thought the HK in a G20 is 20% better lol. Did you maybe have a B8/B8.5 S4?

B9

The HK is clearer and cleaner, without the shrillness that the B&O had. I think the B&O probably had a bit more bass, but that was the ONLY area that I could say was better. That said, the rattle traps that all of our Audis have been made additional bass an unwelcome addition.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by TheFatArmadillo

B9

The HK is clearer and cleaner, without the shrillness that the B&O had. I think the B&O probably had a bit more bass, but that was the ONLY area that I could say was better. That said, the rattle traps that all of our Audis have been made additional bass an unwelcome addition.

You had a very different experience from me. I found the B&O to be clearer, and yes it had more bass. I did some audio testing on both, and the highs held better and the overall system clarity was better (if you turned off the 3D sound effect). I only had rattles in my 2018 coupe...the rest, including my RS5 have been rattle free. The HK system in my M340i was a let down in almost every area...clarity was okay at best, and bass was terrible. I had a 2018 Lexus IS350 with the ML system that sounded better.

Hey, to each their own though. I'm not going to tell you what you did or didn't experience.

[TheFatArmadillo]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

You had a very different experience from me. I found the B&O to be clearer, and yes it had more bass. I did some audio testing on both, and the highs held better and the overall system clarity was better (if you turned off the 3D sound effect). I only had rattles in my 2018 coupe...the rest, including my RS5 have been rattle free. The HK system in my M340i was a let down in almost every area...clarity was okay at best, and bass was terrible. I had a 2018 Lexus IS350 with the ML system that sounded better.

Hey, to each their own though. I'm not going to tell you what you did or didn't experience.

Mine was an 18, glad to hear the later cars got better on the rattle front. I’ve seen some comments that the LCIs got some changes to the HK system, but don’t know how to verify that rumor. The good news - we’re both happy with what we have. Enjoy in good health!

[LarryMarcia]

Agree - not sure which S4 you have, but respectfully disagree with your post.

I personally have the BMW with the HK.

My opinion: I've had BMW with Bowers systems, I've had BMWs with HK, I've had Audis with B&O, MB with Burmester, have also listened to the Tesla (which is a rebranded B&O system. And may others, Lexus Levinson, etc that I have listened to her the last 20 or so years.

I personally own a BMW with HK.

But there is no way I can say HK is even 1/2 way decent after listening to any of the other high end systems I mentioned - again that is how I feel. . It does not sound good, period. It's ok for talk radio, and listening to music if you have nothing else. When I can, I own my car, so I will spend the money to swap out the HK components for something much better.

here are tons of posts about HK setting adjustments etc to improve sound, and none of them have resulted in a noticeable improvement for me.

I understand most car stereos are manufactured by Samsung or some related company.

Regardless, it is clear to me that the B&O in the Audi is many times superior to the HK, not even close, just being honest. And I have the HK.

A great stereo makes for a more fun and enjoyable ride. BMW makes a great vehicle. And they offer some significantly higher end - great sounding stereos on other models, just not the 3 series.

[TakeshiJin]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

Yes I did. What's your point? You made a general (wrong) comment about the B&O that you "tested" in all three models of A4/A5 but this thread is talking about the A4 vs the G20, so I asked what were you comparing? We don't need to be cryptic here, just explain...

Okay Mr did-not-read? Your opiniona full of fallacy . You made wrong comments period; not everything goes your way. That's okay infancy has a phase. You can make up things to suit your bias all you want. If you read the entire thing nothing is cryptic. My statement stands right.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by TakeshiJin

Okay Mr did-not-read? Your opiniona full of fallacy . You made wrong comments period; not everything goes your way. That's okay infancy has a phase. You can make up things to suit your bias all you want. If you read the entire thing nothing is cryptic. My statement stands right.

Okay.......

[RCtennis3811]

Originally Posted by thepianist1

How would you compare safety features? Audi has turn assist, safe exit warning, cyclist warning and adaptive cruise control as standard on the trim you mentioned whereas BMW does not have any of those. So in that regard Audi seems to win coming from a BMW owner myself

While some things are optional, there are plenty of safety features BMW offers that Audi doesn’t in any trim/package. Things like Side Collision Intervention, Intersection Collision Warning, Active PDC Emergency Braking, Evasion Aid, and Emergency Stop Assistant. Plus, BMW’s Automatic Emergency Braking when you get Driving Assistant Professional is actually a full high-speed AEB system. If you look at IIHS testing, Audi’s upgraded PreSense only slowed cars going 25MPH by 22MPH. Even BMW’s standard Active Guard (the base AEB) slows the car down from 25MPH by 25MPH - a full stop, not just a slow down.

FWIW, those things I mentioned aren’t exclusive to BMW. MB offers similar things as well, but Audi has yet to bring some of the aforementioned to the US.

[G30M]

i've had a Audi with B&O and BMW

the B&O sounds more orgasmic but it has heavy DSP applied and has less detail

HK has less DSP applied, more detail and flatter EQ curve but sounds more boring

beauty lies in the eye of the beholder

[DerekTriesG20]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

It helps a bit but still doesn't get it close to the B&O in the Audi. Not to mention you can repin the B&O sub and it will sound even better. I've owned a lot in this segment, and it's definitely at the top (that's not saying it's the best of all car/suv audio systems, just in this segment). When I got my M340i the HK sound was literally one of the only things I disliked about an otherwise amazing car.

I see.

[LarryMarcia]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

It helps a bit but still doesn't get it close to the B&O in the Audi. Not to mention you can repin the B&O sub and it will sound even better. I've owned a lot in this segment, and it's definitely at the top (that's not saying it's the best of all car/suv audio systems, just in this segment). When I got my M340i the HK sound was literally one of the only things I disliked about an otherwise amazing car.

Aside from the dreadful HK in the 3 series, this is otherwise an excellent vehicle in almost every respect.

If I could just transplant the Audi B&O sound into the 3 series, that would be something great!!!

[AlienInChicago]

Originally Posted by LarryMarcia

Fun package - For me personally, the absolutely excellent engine and engaging / fun driving dynamics and large trunk of the BMW 330 definitely outweighed it's very dull steering, poor sounding HK stereo, narrow seats, and slightly firm ride.

There are so many similar sedans out there, that the consumer has plenty of options. It comes down to what is best for you as they are all somewhat similar.

I think BMW and its wonderful engines and driving dynamics is something that is not equally present in Audi, and certainly not present in the new MB C300.

If it were just about steering, the best similar sedan is the Alfa by far. If it is just about speed, the Audi A4 45 is the choice. If it is just about the latest tech, the C300 is probably the choice. But with BMW, it's the whole package that made it a good choice for me.

Originally Posted by LarryMarcia

Takeshijin - Great post and good analysis. I will say that the Audi A4 (45) in Prestige trim is probably one of the greatest sleeper cars ever made, in large part because most don't know that it is rocket fast and so different than a standard A4.

Ventilated seats - nice, but not a game changer for me.

HK / BO - 100% agree with you. I don't care if almost all car stereo systems are made by Samsung or another company. The Bang & Olufsen stereo is head and shoulders better than the HK, period. I loved going on long trips with my S4 in large part because the BO sound was really that amazing!

When I have the money, the HK will be ripped out of my 3 series and replaced with a quality system.

Still, as that first video above shows, the prize goes to the 3 series. It's just a better handling and more engaging vehicle in my personal and humble opinion.

Originally Posted by LarryMarcia

Over the years I’ve driven the 330, 340, A4 and S4 so pretty knowledgeable about the cars. Up until last week, was driving a 340. Great car, but it started having some minor issues over the last few months. Anyway, for my wife and I it was time for a trade and it came down to 2 cars.

Wanted either a 330 or A4(45) because of the price point and my wife and I share a car and the 340 is a bit to noisy and fast for her, so that car got traded in on the purchase. So it came down to the A4(45) and 340. The new MB was out as she hated the look of the car – inside and out.

We picked up the 330 x drive this past Friday afternoon and we are happy!!!

My comparison was this:

Tech – BMW tech is mostly better in my opinion, but the Audi Virtual cockpit is downright amazing and no car manufacturer has anything like it. My wife loved that feature. Still, we even more love the control wheel for the I Drive in the BMW; Audi eliminated their control knob and that was a big mistake. The I Drive control wheel in the BMW gives it the Tech advantage. As for the new long screen in the 2023 3 series, we both think it looks great, is functional, but like our sales consultant told us, the loss of so many functional buttons is not a good thing.

Stereo – For sure, the AUDI B&O stereo system is much better than the HK system that came with the BMW we bought, I’ll admit that and I’ll also admit that my wife and I love listening to great sounding music. But a car is more about engine and performance than it is about stereo. We own the car, so maybe some weekend when I have time I’ll try replacing the speakers and maybe the AMP to see if that improves the HK system. If anyone has changed the HK stereo components with success and improved sound, please send me a message with how you did it. Thanks!

Looks – The BMW looks better for sure. The Audi looks good, but definitely dated, and not nearly as sexy or aggressive looking. BMW is the better looking car.

Engine – Yes, the A4 45 is a lot faster. Car and driver clocked the Audi at 0-60 in 4.8, but to me it felt even faster – more like 4.4 or better. C&D clocked the BMW 330 at 5.2, and to me it felt 5.2. Why anyone would get an Audi S4 over a A4 45 is a mystery, unless they could not find one with the 45 engine as they are in short supply and my audi dealer told me they are not taking special orders. Still, the BMW engine was more linear, more responsive, and just overall felt better, but certainly a bit slower than the Audi. BMW has the better overall engine, and that was a major factor that led us to buy the BMW.

Seats – The Audi seats are better, 100% better as they are bigger and more comfortable and you sit in the middle of the seat without your thigh bottoms resting on the side bolsters as my wife and I (neither overweight) feel in the BMW. The BMW is a good seat, just too small in the width. The Audi came with Alcantra, which may not be easy to keep clean, but it definitely feels good and probably does not get too hot or too cold. We got the BMW with sense-tech – which happens to be very nice and feels close to leather and will probably be more durable over the long haul. We really like the BMW seats, just wish they were a bit wider. My wife says maybe we need to lose weight, maybe she’s right. I just want to eliminate the feeling of my thighs sitting on the side bolsters of the seat. I like sitting in the middle of the seat and the bolsters wrapping around the side of my thigh (not under my thigh). Regardless, not a big deal and something I can learn to live with, and again, the BMW seat is a good seat for sure.

Ride comfort – well I know this is a hot topic with the BMW and run flats…. The Audi with go-flat tires is more comfortable riding in the A4(45) with S Line and sport suspension. And it comes with a spare. The BMW did not have the sport suspension, and actually felt a bit harder riding, especially over the bumps, probably because of the run flats, but not a drastic difference. Maybe someday I’ll get regular tires and a spare, to improve ride comfort and have the peace of mind that a spare gives me on long trips. Rear set in the BMW is kind of tight, Audi has much more space in the back seat. As for engine noise, the Audi engine is quieter. But the BMW sounds much, much, better! (My prior 340 was way worse in terms of ride comfort.)

Service – BMW came with prepaid maintenance for 3 years. Audi came with nothing for service. That is probably worth about $750, so that’s a plus for BMW.

Space / economy – The cars feel similar on the inside. The BMW trunk is bigger (important to me). Fuel economy is better in the BMW. Range and trunk space is key for us as we drive from Chicago to Minneapolis with a lot of luggage and 2 kids about 5 times a year, which is why the 330 electric hybrid model was ruled out because of its small trunk and small gas tank, not to mention there are still very limited public chargers in this part of the United States. We maybe would have considered a Tesla if there were more public chargers around where we live and travel.

Prestige – very similar.

Luxury – very similar, except maybe the Audi is a bit more solidly built inside and out, and Audi still has a lot of buttons and dials for climate control ….. but Audi no longer has the control wheel, and that is a big mistake I think by Audi. The heads up display in both cars is excellent.

In the end, the BMW engine is the key difference, which I think makes it the better choice.

I would say it's pretty difficult choice between the A4 and 330i. Assuming my order ever gets approved, I'll be leasing a 330i. But I [maybe stupidly] barely even drove a BMW - just 5 minutes - and was only a 330e! Never drove an Audi. Maybe should have. Also, it's not my $$ mostly so didn't take as much care in choosing as maybe I could have.

I chose BMW because for some reason I think they're cooler. Maybe stupid reasoning. Also, weighing in I think was the Audi has not been updated for some time - Maybe later this year? But I'm ordering a car now . The BMW does look better I think. I found the BMW coupe with low visibility, and assume the A5 sportback is the same. So, I went with sedan even though the couple/sportbacks look better.

The Audi faster engine, better seats/maybe interior? and the sound system are all great things. Next time, I might take my time more doing comparisons, drive tests etc. If engine is the only real thing over Audi, then maybe again, tighter consideration, particularly if my $$.

The BMW options are a mess and force the price up quickly from base price vs Audi seems to have just 1 or 2 or 3 options. 330i with a bunch of options quickly gets 10% above A4 45 TFSI with premium plus package.

In short - had I had more care in choosing, comparing, and had Audi had new models out by now -> The seats, sound and slightly faster engine, and 10% cheaper price may have swayed me to Audi. That 10% might reduce or disappear if Audi adds markup to MY24 models also like BMW did.

[G30M]

Had both

Audi for overall package, it's just a bit better here and there (even the fake engine noise is better - it makes a difference to make it artificially more dramatic!)

BMW for engine power, gearbox tuning and RWD bias, probably adds up to make it very good at the limit, but you only find that limit on track

[iulianm]

Originally Posted by francton

They named their new front wheel biased system as “Quattro with ultra”. However Audi sneakily simply mention Quattro in their tech specs, so buyers have no idea which cars have the excellent original Quattro and which cars have the crappy new one. The new Quattro with ultra mostly drives on front wheel only, and switches on the rear wheels only when it detects slip. They are going the way of Lexus.

I had no clue Audi did this! for me a big part of the reason why I went with 3-Series was the RWD based architecture.

[AlienInChicago]

I just read maybe no more sedan! At least in the US ?

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/03/20...an-to-history/

[arentz07]

Originally Posted by g21

Had both

Audi for overall package, it's just a bit better here and there (even the fake engine noise is better - it makes a difference to make it artificially more dramatic!)

BMW for engine power, gearbox tuning and RWD bias

You know, the fake engine noise in our 330i is one of the only legitimate complaints I have about the way it drives. I have my Sport Individual mode set to everything in Comfort except for the the transmission just to keep the fake engine noise down. Unfortunately, doing this also means I lose the burbles. But, they were pretty subtle anyway.

[DerekTriesG20]

Originally Posted by francton

They named their new front wheel biased system as “Quattro with ultra”. However Audi sneakily simply mention Quattro in their tech specs, so buyers have no idea which cars have the excellent original Quattro and which cars have the crappy new one. The new Quattro with ultra mostly drives on front wheel only, and switches on the rear wheels only when it detects slip. They are going the way of Lexus.

I wonder why they call it ultra, seems like they got it backwards, shouldn't the original one called the ultra as it should be the top of the line, isn't that what ultra means in a product line?

[DerekTriesG20]

Originally Posted by arentz07

You know, the fake engine noise in our 330i is one of the only legitimate complaints I have about the way it drives. I have my Sport Individual mode set to everything in Comfort except for the the transmission just to keep the fake engine noise down. Unfortunately, doing this also means I lose the burbles. But, they were pretty subtle anyway.

I guess consider coding Active Sound Design out with bimmercode that way you don't have to compromise at all.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by DerekTriesG20

I wonder why they call it ultra, seems like they got it backwards, shouldn't the original one called the ultra as it should be the top of the line, isn't that what ultra means in a product line?

The Ultra refers to ultra efficiency as for the few models that use it, Audi believes buyers are looking for reduced emissions and better fuel consumption (through coasting in FWD when no slip is detected and AWD isn't needed). They keep the full time, rear bias balanced AWD ("real Quattro") for the S and RS model cars.

[DerekTriesG20]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

The Ultra refers to ultra efficiency as for the few models that use it, Audi believes buyers are looking for reduced emissions and better fuel consumption (through coasting in FWD when no slip is detected and AWD isn't needed). They keep the full time, rear bias balanced AWD ("real Quattro") for the S and RS model cars.

Oh I see, that makes sense then thanks

[G30M]

in a way i prefer the Audi sport diff (in the S4) vs the BMW M diff (M340i)

the Audi diff works like this - one day i was following my wife who was driving the Audi with the sport diff. her tail was sliding out every time she turned. the tail just washes sideways as the front of the car turns in. very progressive active torque vectoring. i could not believe this. was tailing her for 3 hours.

the BMW - nothing nothing nothing, lock up, big oversteer. gives me a heart attack in the wet all the time.

[francton]

Originally Posted by DerekTriesG20

Oh I see, that makes sense then thanks

It’s still misleading. Ultra indicates that it is superior to the regular Quattro, which it isn’t. They should have called it Quattro efficient or something similar