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      11-27-2019, 11:20 AM   #45
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All of the speculation is too preliminary. Today's purchase will determine tomorrow's product. Want a halo car? Keep buying M Cars instead of giving into the housewife when she wants a monster truck X5 for her two kids that are smaller than most dogs. Stop buying crossovers because you THINK you need the ride height for doing 99% highway driving in non inclement weather. Start buying cars that demand performance rather than size or trends.

I'm preaching to the choir though. No one on Bimmerpost is affecting BMW corporate decisions except for MAYBE M cars alone, which is great if true, but still unlikely. Their target demographic doesn't use a forum. They see some new shit on TV with a badge, go to their local dealer, compromise with their spouse, and then purchase something in excess of their needs.
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      11-27-2019, 11:40 AM   #46
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"M has never been dogmatic about any particular technology – electrification is not rocket science and it's not the game changer that people think it's an easy answer to every question."

Elon has entered the chat.
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Which BMW Model has over 200,000 individual deposits on it?
I really hope people don't consider those $100 "deposits" to mean much. I've put more down preordering a video game. Absolutely useless metric. I personally know a handful of people that bought it just to buy and never intend to purchase the truck. This isn't like the $1000 or $5000 deposits that they've taken for the 3 and roadster.
Again, which BMW model are 200,000+ people rushing to a BMW Dealer and putting down $100 for, refundable or not - in less than 100 hours?

To put it in perspective, BMW only sold 25,000 vehicles in the USA last month.

And at $20M+ and rising daily, we aren't talking small change.
Your comparison is moronic because there has never been a comparable situation. BMW hasn't ever done a PR stunt like that. Artificially inflated "preorders" because of the refundable negligible cost to it. Might as well have been a free "sign up for more info" on their site. People that are leaning on those numbers to actually mean anything are goofy.
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      11-27-2019, 11:44 AM   #47
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It's about time they had something to rival Mercedes's SLS / AMG GT and Audi's R8.
The i8 does not compete against these in the slightest in my opinion.
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      11-27-2019, 12:27 PM   #48
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I posted this before in a similar thread: bring it, BMW! Let’s see what you still got.

I’d argue that BMW’s rep among enthusiasts has never been worse. I’d love for today to be their ‘Ford v Ferrari’ moment and build their own GT40 to say “eff you all”
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      11-27-2019, 12:37 PM   #49
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
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Originally Posted by low135 View Post
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Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
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Originally Posted by rjd598 View Post
"M has never been dogmatic about any particular technology – electrification is not rocket science and it's not the game changer that people think it's an easy answer to every question."

Elon has entered the chat.
.
Which BMW Model has over 200,000 individual deposits on it?
I really hope people don't consider those $100 "deposits" to mean much. I've put more down preordering a video game. Absolutely useless metric. I personally know a handful of people that bought it just to buy and never intend to purchase the truck. This isn't like the $1000 or $5000 deposits that they've taken for the 3 and roadster.
Again, which BMW model are 200,000+ people rushing to a BMW Dealer and putting down $100 for, refundable or not - in less than 100 hours?

To put it in perspective, BMW only sold 25,000 vehicles in the USA last month.

And at $20M+ and rising daily, we aren't talking small change.
Your comparison is moronic because there has never been a comparable situation. BMW hasn't ever done a PR stunt like that. Artificially inflated "preorders" because of the refundable negligible cost to it. Might as well have been a free "sign up for more info" on their site. People that are leaning on those numbers to actually mean anything are goofy.
There's never been a comparable situation? Think about that. In itself it speaks volumes.

Of course we've seen Tesla actually has follow through with buyers.

Then again, Tesla sold more vehicles in Q3 than BMW in USA, so only a "moron" would ignore them.
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      11-27-2019, 01:08 PM   #50
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First "bespoke" M car will be the X8M.
Do you mean that there will be no X8, only the X8M as a standalone model?
In addition to the X8M there will be an entry level X8 M45e and an electrified (most likely mild hybrid) X8 M50i. All three vehicles will be designed and developed exclusively by BMW M so the entire X8 range will be considered as standalone/bespoke M models.
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      11-27-2019, 01:53 PM   #51
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Which BMW Model has 200,000+ individual deposits on it - much less, in 100 hours?
Every model would, if BMW wanted to let people put $100 refundable deposits down. There would easily be millions of 3 series deposits alone, go somewhere else with that Tesla garb.
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      11-27-2019, 01:56 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Which BMW Model has 200,000+ individual deposits on it - much less, in 100 hours?
Every model would, if BMW wanted to let people put $100 refundable deposits down. There would easily be millions of 3 series deposits alone, go somewhere else with that Tesla garb.
Wrong. All deposits on BMW's are refundable. Having actually ordered a new car to my spec instead of buying used or generic off lot, I know that.

So, "millions" would put $100 down on a 3 series? Interesting, as BMW sold just under 12,000 3 Series in Q3 2019 while Tesla sold just under 80,000. That's what, over 6.5:1

Tesla deposits have a high follow through.

Seems you have Elon envy.
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      11-27-2019, 02:13 PM   #53
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There's never been a comparable situation? Think about that. In itself it speaks volumes.

Of course we've seen Tesla actually has follow through with buyers.

Then again, Tesla sold more vehicles in Q3 than BMW in USA, so only a "moron" would ignore them.
Again wrong. Tesla sold 50,000ish in the USA while bmw sold 70,000ish.tesla sold 97,000 units GLOBALLY in Q3. BMW sold 70k in the USA in Q3. Only a “moron” would try and use these number to support Tesla. So I will say it again. Go elsewhere with the Tesla garb.
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      11-27-2019, 02:18 PM   #54
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Wrong. All deposits on BMW's are refundable. Having actually ordered a new car to my spec instead of buying used or generic off lot, I know that.

So, "millions" would put $100 down on a 3 series? Interesting, as BMW sold just under 12,000 3 Series in Q3 2019 while Tesla sold just under 80,000. That's what, over 6.5:1

Tesla deposits have a high follow through.

Seems you have Elon envy.

I actually quite like Elon. Just not the blind Tesla followers. You seem to have reality envy. Your skewing the reality of the numbers to fit your opinion.Ok so Q3 while bmw sold 12k 3 series in the USA, Tesla sold 80k globally? Interesting,When the next month or so an all new 3 series is coming out. And You want to use that to back Tesla? Weird... Bmw likely sells more 3 series in a year than Tesla sells cars period. You can’t use sales #s for shit
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      11-27-2019, 02:22 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Artifacts in Motion View Post
All of the speculation is too preliminary. Today's purchase will determine tomorrow's product. Want a halo car? Keep buying M Cars instead of giving into the housewife when she wants a monster truck X5 for her two kids that are smaller than most dogs. Stop buying crossovers because you THINK you need the ride height for doing 99% highway driving in non inclement weather. Start buying cars that demand performance rather than size or trends.

I'm preaching to the choir though. No one on Bimmerpost is affecting BMW corporate decisions except for MAYBE M cars alone, which is great if true, but still unlikely. Their target demographic doesn't use a forum. They see some new shit on TV with a badge, go to their local dealer, compromise with their spouse, and then purchase something in excess of their needs.
Porsche sells more SUVs than other cars in their range and still manages Halo cars though.
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      11-27-2019, 02:22 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mvious View Post
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Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
There's never been a comparable situation? Think about that. In itself it speaks volumes.

Of course we've seen Tesla actually has follow through with buyers.

Then again, Tesla sold more vehicles in Q3 than BMW in USA, so only a "moron" would ignore them.
Again wrong. Tesla sold 50,000ish in the USA while bmw sold 70,000ish.tesla sold 97,000 units GLOBALLY in Q3. BMW sold 70k in the USA in Q3. Only a "moron" would try and use these number to support Tesla. So I will say it again. Go elsewhere with the Tesla garb.
Elon envy has you all worked up.

First you start talking about a BMW 3 series and 1 model of a Tesla. Now you want to compare BMW's 17 models built from a 100 year heritage to the fleet of a 10 year startup.

Of course you ignored your incorrect facts that BMW Deposits are refundable and not several million, not a million, not a hundred thousand, not even 10,000 put down a deposit as you stated.

One car Company is creating excitement.

The other is giving Consumers big grills.
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      11-27-2019, 02:24 PM   #57
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Wrong. All deposits on BMW's are refundable. Having actually ordered a new car to my spec instead of buying used or generic off lot, I know that.

So, "millions" would put $100 down on a 3 series? Interesting, as BMW sold just under 12,000 3 Series in Q3 2019 while Tesla sold just under 80,000. That's what, over 6.5:1

Tesla deposits have a high follow through.

Seems you have Elon envy.

I actually quite like Elon. Just not the blind Tesla followers. You seem to have reality envy. Your skewing the reality of the numbers to fit your opinion.Ok so Q3 while bmw sold 12k 3 series in the USA, Tesla sold 80k globally? Interesting,When the next month or so an all new 3 series is coming out. And You want to use that to back Tesla? Weird... Bmw likely sells more 3 series in a year than Tesla sells cars period. You can't use sales #s for shit
Wow. You really do not know reality.

The 3 series has been out for 8 months.

People laying out their hard earned money is the ONLY metric that matter. That's not "shit".
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      11-27-2019, 02:40 PM   #58
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I'm not saying one of you is comically off base, but I kind of am.

[IMG]https://cleantechnica.com/files/2019...nica-2.png.png[/IMG]
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      11-27-2019, 02:46 PM   #59
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I'm not saying one of you is comically off base, but I kind of am.

[IMG]https://cleantechnica.com/files/2019...nica-2.png.png[/IMG]
I really don't understand why everyone gets so worked up over this.

Specific to this thread I think M CEO is off base saying electric is not all that's it's hyped up to be. Clearly the numbers say otherwise and BMW seems to be last in that department at least compared to their German brothers. I've seen more E-trons in my area than i3/8. I actually haven't seen a single i3/8 in a very long time. Mercedes is already working on a G wagon EV, which they know their customers love that model so that move makes a lot of sense.

Go ahead and make a halo car. By then not only will Mercedes/Audi come out with better versions of their halo car, but Tesla will dominate more and more of the EV market so I don't see where BMW will stand. They don't have brand identity as the CEO states. Everyone thinks the G20 looks like a Lexus, making a FWD "performance" car, and everyone seems to complain about every other model they put out. Crazy to see such a shift in such a huge industry.
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      11-27-2019, 02:52 PM   #60
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Agreed. And what would a BMW halo car really be? I'd argue that the smaller BMW's have been their best since the late 60's. Only weirdos bought the 7er, but the M3 was always the "best" BMW. So perhaps the F82 GTS was already the halo car and they'll just tell us later.

Sadly, the folks running the show seem to think that bigger, heavier and more ostentatious is really where a halo belongs. So we'll probably get a Cullinan with a BMW badge instead. Dubai will celebrate!
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      11-27-2019, 02:52 PM   #61
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Firstly I never said bmw doesn’t refund deposits. So you must have misinterpreted what I said.
Secondly, if you feel as though people shouldn’t compare the two companies, maybe you shouldn’t make statements comparing them. Bmw has lost its way, for sure, but if you think think Tesla has some special formula for designing exciting cars, I am sorry you are wrong. The only things that are impressive or exciting about Tesla today are things that are inherent to electric cars. Once real established car companies start making electric cars, Tesla will have nothing, maybe a range advantage, But is that exciting? Or is it the instant acceleration that’s exciting? Cuz it’s not the fart noises or auto pilot crashes that excite me. Tesla is subpar to top european luxury brands period. That being said, Elon is a beast and his intellect is the only reason Tesla has made it this far. However he is a blessing and a curse. For obvious reasons. So don’t mis interpret my disdain for blind Tesla followers for a dislike of Elon musk.
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      11-27-2019, 02:56 PM   #62
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Also for those checking #s, check from the manufactures quarterly reports. Not random graphs that say “this is based off an estimate of....”
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      11-27-2019, 03:06 PM   #63
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OMG why are we talking about passenger-sized roombas in a front-page story about BMW halo car??
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      11-27-2019, 03:22 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
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Originally Posted by ///Mvious View Post
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Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Which BMW Model has 200,000+ individual deposits on it - much less, in 100 hours?
Every model would, if BMW wanted to let people put $100 refundable deposits down. There would easily be millions of 3 series deposits alone, go somewhere else with that Tesla garb.
Wrong. All deposits on BMW's are refundable. Having actually ordered a new car to my spec instead of buying used or generic off lot, I know that.

So, "millions" would put $100 down on a 3 series? Interesting, as BMW sold just under 12,000 3 Series in Q3 2019 while Tesla sold just under 80,000. That's what, over 6.5:1

Tesla deposits have a high follow through.

Seems you have Elon envy.
Seems like you wanna suck his d***. I get he is pretty revolutionary, but the Elonites are out in full force over this cyber truck. They won't let one bad thing be said about the all glorious all powerful musk
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      11-27-2019, 03:30 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mvious View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Which BMW Model has 200,000+ individual deposits on it - much less, in 100 hours?
Every model would, if BMW wanted to let people put $100 refundable deposits down. There would easily be millions of 3 series deposits alone, go somewhere else with that Tesla garb.
Wrong. All deposits on BMW's are refundable. Having actually ordered a new car to my spec instead of buying used or generic off lot, I know that.

So, "millions" would put $100 down on a 3 series? Interesting, as BMW sold just under 12,000 3 Series in Q3 2019 while Tesla sold just under 80,000. That's what, over 6.5:1

Tesla deposits have a high follow through.

Seems you have Elon envy.
Seems like you wanna suck his d***. I get he is pretty revolutionary, but the Elonites are out in full force over this cyber truck. They won't let one bad thing be said about the all glorious all powerful musk
That's the problem with BMW Cult Members.

You cannot admit others are successful in car business and bringing excitement without resorting to big grills.

As a major publication noted, the Tesla CyberTruck design is a major hit hit everyone, except the Boomers.
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      11-27-2019, 03:33 PM   #66
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Also for those checking #s, check from the manufactures quarterly reports. Not random graphs that say "this is based off an estimate of...."
I used the SEC filings, not that you would know how to do proper research.
Good ol' EDGAR.
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