[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by F82PRETEND

I think that's right. Even an end of cycle F82 is relatively on par with a base level 992 in performance. I've been looking at the 992s and it's hard to justify the premium unless you step into the S model...then it's quite a bit of premium. The new M3/4 will be within spitting distance of that car, I imagine.

Engine wise, yes, S55 is on par and even a tad stronger than the 991GTS/992S stock for stock in terms of whp. Safe to conclude S58 is much stronger in peak power although that comes at cost of low end and spool.

Acceleration, not so much, due to weight and traction.

Overall dynamic capability, the F82 gts the ultimate track form of modern M to this day can hardly match 991.2 base trim with chassis performance options loaded.

992 is leagues above any M model ever built.

[Art__Vandelay]

The quoted Car and Driver article compared the M3 E92 with the base 997. So to be fair we should compare the F80/82 with the base 991, not 992. But honestly, I can't really remember how these comparisons turned out.

[Ghostriderf80]

Looking good, cannot wait to get this, seems to be very quick.
M4 CS will be amazing.

[Colinv6]

It looks extremely quick!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

The M still offers that to this day. Nothing has changed as far as those attributes are concerned. I would take an M4 over any lower level/non-GT 911.

Not really. While it might have been the case with the 991.1, Porsche have significantly upped the performance game with the 991 LCI. The base 991.2 out accelerates and outhandles the F8X; with equivalent drivers, the F8X will have a tough time keeping up with a base 991.2 on track. The 991.2 S just blows the doors off the F8X. The 992 is another ballgame all together. I still prefer the F8X due to the superior practicality, but it is no longer in the same playing field as the 911. Maybe that will change with G8X .

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Not really. While it might have been the case with the 991.1, Porsche have significantly upped the performance game with the 991 LCI. The base 991.2 out accelerates and outhandles the F8X; with equivalent drivers, the F8X will have a tough time keeping up with a base 991.2 on track. The 991.2 S just blows the doors off the F8X. The 992 is another ballgame all together. I still prefer the F8X due to the superior practicality, but it is no longer in the same playing field as the 911. Maybe that will change with G8X .

Well yeah, the G8X will up the ante.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by SabineBimmer

Really? I don't know. Now, I would take any e9x or earlier M3 just simply due to NA nature of them and their inherent qualities. Reliability plus drop-dead looks? Man, can't beat the 911, especially when compared to the last gen M4. Don't know jack about this new M4, but prelims are concerning.

Agree, even in base form the 911 will always be superior in feel and emotion, which is why I buy cars at least. I don't care whether I get beat in a straight line, any Tesla can do that.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by jstein55

Agree, even in base form the 911 will always be superior in feel and emotion, which is why I buy cars at least. I don't care whether I get beat in a straight line, any Tesla can do that.

What is awesome about the M3/911 debate, is that IMHO they are best in their respective category. They are very different because the M3 needs to be practical and cost-conscious and the 911 does not...so the 911 by nature should have an inherent significant advantage in performance. Can't say which one is "better" but given the choice for the streets I usually prefer the e92 M3 over the 911's.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by AlejoEvo

I looked at the video and the car looks stable and really fast, that's something I like!

I took some snapshots of the car, I think we will get a large grill but it will not be connected to the part under the license plate.

Also, the new headlights looks good!

[yk36]

Own a M4 and I agree F80/82s are definitely more practical than any 911s but let's not kid ourselves here, even the base 992 is leagues above F80/82 in terms of performance and driving feel.

If you don't think so, you haven't driven one.

[Art__Vandelay]

Well I mean I like Porsche and I may think about buying one, but let's be honest and fair, considering the significantly higher price and the lower practicability, it better be faster and offer you the better driving feel.

[STONEDM3]

This car is gonna look good I think. Change always takes getting use to.

[05C4R]

the understeer on corner entry in the vid may be caused by the AWD? hopefully that gets ironed out as I reckon this could be a very fast car. If we are comparing 911's it could be faster then the base car this time around

I owned a 991.1 Carrera S and my father owned, what is now mine(long story) a F80 M3. We set the M3 up with front end camber, and square 18" 295 tyres using Apex wheels, so 295 all round. The 991 CS was on 20" wheels, stock sizes which are ample. Both cars with track rubber were pretty much identical on the track. And we track a lot.

Also, way back to the e92, it was faster then the 997 C4, but not the C4S.

[PLF69]

Since porsche switched to forced induction it changed the hole game..

[AlejoEvo]

Originally Posted by 05C4R

the understeer on corner entry in the vid may be caused by the AWD? hopefully that gets ironed out as I reckon this could be a very fast car. If we are comparing 911's it could be faster then the base car this time around

I owned a 991.1 Carrera S and my father owned, what is now mine(long story) a F80 M3. We set the M3 up with front end camber, and square 18" 295 tyres using Apex wheels, so 295 all round. The 991 CS was on 20" wheels, stock sizes which are ample. Both cars with track rubber were pretty much identical on the track. And we track a lot.

Also, way back to the e92, it was faster then the 997 C4, but not the C4S.

Under steer can be related to the addition of the front differential, maybe that's the purpose of this test, to correct this behavior. Since we are expecting a Rear biased AWD, oversteer behavior is expected.

I like how the car behaves, even with the under steer,is fast and stable, very composed, even for a prototype.

[213e90n51]

Originally Posted by GOLFFRR

lol classic

If u scroll down to comment section in youtube or the joe men podcast you see alot of this.

[Puuhapete]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

992 is leagues above any M model ever built.

Well then the 992 must be a HUGH stepup from the 991:s! On a 1,30min track the M3 CS was on par with the 911 GTS, which is a higher end model. I have driven several 991:s and apart from the GT-models (have not driven) I much rather would take the M3 CS. Unfortunately they are still very expensive.
Qualitywise Porsche is the best but to say leagues above in performance is not true.

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by Puuhapete

Well then the 992 must be a HUGH stepup from the 991:s! On a 1,30min track the M3 CS was on par with the 911 GTS, which is a higher end model. I have driven several 991:s and apart from the GT-models (have not driven) I much rather would take the M3 CS. Unfortunately they are still very expensive.
Qualitywise Porsche is the best but to say leagues above in performance is not true.

Hey...not trying to argue. Indeed, the M4 CS may have a chance to keep up with 991.1gts (3.8NA). But when the .2 gets the 3.0 turbo, it simply blew away all the competitions.

Arguably BMW turbo engine is industry leading and can even have a slight edge over Porsche. You may ask why F8X falls that much behind 991.2, while E9X hang up with 997 well? The fact that the 911 is a ground up sports car (way better chassis layout) and thus power is more usable in all conditions, is why.

[Colinv6]

Don’t know about anyone else but I’m sick of reading about Porsche 911’s on here.

Seems like every thread develops into 911 chat.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by Colinv6

Don’t know about anyone else but I’m sick of reading about Porsche 911’s on here.

Seems like every thread develops into 911 chat.

The 911 allows entry if you spend the same money on the top end M4.

[Colinv6]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The 911 allows entry if you spend the same money on the top end M4.

But the M4 is a properly practical 4 seater car. With large boot too.

The 911 is a sports car, 2+2 at a stretch, as you say you can get the base model for the same retail as a CS. I know what I’d rather have. Infact I’m going to say that unless it’s a GT3 or higher, I wouldn’t thank you for a 911.

[Puuhapete]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Hey...not trying to argue. Indeed, the M4 CS may have a chance to keep up with 991.1gts (3.8NA). But when the .2 gets the 3.0 turbo, it simply blew away all the competitions.

Arguably BMW turbo engine is industry leading and can even have a slight edge over Porsche. You may ask why F8X falls that much behind 991.2, while E9X hang up with 997 well? The fact that the 911 is a ground up sports car (way better chassis layout) and thus power is more usable in all conditions, is why.

Would not say that. I was about 1,5 sec behind the GTS with my F80 Competition and always had one person extra as Porsche driver was alone in his car. The extra 70 kg about 0,5 sec?
I dont argue that the Porsche is the better sports car but the difference is not so big. Especially if you take a base 911 or S-model.
The S65 had so much more power than the the 997:s. That is the biggest reason for it being fast. I had one for 4 years and it was a great car but around the track my F80 is at least 2 seconds faster with same tyres. Zero understeering in the F80 when the E92 had a "heavy" nose.