BMW M3 and M4 - The Icons
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
home
G80 BMW M3 and M4 General Topics BMW M3 (G80), M4 (G82), CSL and 3.0 CSL General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-28-2020, 01:37 PM   #67
jpan08
Second Lieutenant
jpan08's Avatar
42
Rep
245
Posts

Drives: e36 M3, e92 M3, Triumph 675
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Boston, MA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F82PRETEND View Post
I don't know...it's worked for Porsche for basically 60 years!
I appreciate this
Appreciate 1
Fugly M34901.00
      05-28-2020, 01:44 PM   #68
Nativetexan
First Lieutenant
304
Rep
343
Posts

Drives: %C2%9118 F80 ZCP
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
I wouldn't be that sure.

The F80 was BMW's first attempt to make a true track worthy car, without any special limited editions necessary. It is a bit lighter than the E90, they fixed the cooling, reduced the understeer, allowed wider tire packages to fit, eliminated rubber bushings in the rear frame attachment, standard CF roof and other CF parts, etc.

The only miss-steps IMO are front seats without harness pass-through and perhaps the lack of sufficient camber up front. The last one is easily remedied via aftermarket.

So anyway, the new one will have the seats fixed, that's great. But it will be again (unnecessarily so) bigger, and I can almost guarantee it will be heavier, even when comparing RWD models. The new engine is improved in some respects compared to the S55, perhaps more reliable (crank hub) but with many of the traditional accessories moved at the back, may prove to be more difficult to maintain over time. There are also some disturbing reports that the S58 has more lag down low than the S55, who knows.

I'm sure the AWD models will be quicker than the F8x cars, but better? That remains to be seen, and IMO it isn't a slam dunk.


This is coming from a guy with 4 BMW's in the driveway, 12 BMW's owned so far, serial M owner, 6 Euro Deliveries done. I love the brand, I love the value proposition for a dual purpose DD-track car (say compared to Porsche), but so far and very much unlike the past there just isn't anything in the new model screaming "Buy Me Now".

I'm not even touching the looks category, I understand it is very personal.

Maybe an M2CS if they are reasonable in price, or next gen M2CS. No real fire to trade my car in the next few months...
Just throwing it out there that if your cars are that good that the next gen doesn't "scream to sell yours and buy it" then that's actually a good thing IMO. It speaks to the solid build of your models.

I'm not sure every gen release should make prior owners sell and buy new. It's really probably every 2 gens that a M owner will see a big difference.

E36 to e46 had a minimal difference IMO, E92 was its own oddly timed wonderful beast.

F80 and G80 are pretty much identical and similar IMO.

The next gen beyond G8x will likely have the most surprising changes.
Appreciate 1
The_Werm212.00
      05-28-2020, 02:00 PM   #69
solstice
Major General
5457
Rep
7,037
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nativetexan View Post
Just throwing it out there that if your cars are that good that the next gen doesn't "scream to sell yours and buy it" then that's actually a good thing IMO. It speaks to the solid build of your models.

I'm not sure every gen release should make prior owners sell and buy new. It's really probably every 2 gens that a M owner will see a big difference.

E36 to e46 had a minimal difference IMO, E92 was its own oddly timed wonderful beast.

F80 and G80 are pretty much identical and similar IMO.

The next gen beyond G8x will likely have the most surprising changes.
The G80 brings AWD and AT, game changers for many in terms of increasing the dual purpose attractiveness of the M3. Many prefer AWD in snow and many prefer the smoothness of an AT for around town daily driving.

As for the track I suspect the G8X will bury the F8X with the added traction/grip from AWD, functional aero the significant power bump plus advances in suspension technology.

It is likely the last pure ICE M3 and BMW will make it count. I think it will be as big of a leap forward in capabilities on and off track as any new M3 before it.
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2020, 02:06 PM   #70
M3GymNut
Major
908
Rep
1,211
Posts

Drives: 2021 M3Comp
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Miami, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DML View Post
It's really okay if others like or dislike. Like others I'll make a choice, or not.
It looks like you've forgotten how much hate the F8X got when they were first revealed. Just do a search and you'll see what I mean.
Appreciate 1
duky1313.00
      05-28-2020, 02:36 PM   #71
cactusjack
Banned
371
Rep
185
Posts

Drives: 2008 Saturn Outlook
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Central Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GymNut View Post
2 years later: "Guys I just picked up a new G80! Exterior has grown on me since it was first revealed and of all things it drives like a dream!"

Lolll, I can tell you this, even if I was a billionaire I would never buy that hideous thing. It could drive like a Mclaren F1 and i still wouldn't give BMW any more money after they ruined the M3 with that grill.
Appreciate 1
M3GymNut907.50
      05-28-2020, 03:15 PM   #72
adc
Major General
United_States
2725
Rep
6,750
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80 M3 ED
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MD/DC

iTrader: (12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
The G80 brings AWD and AT, game changers for many in terms of increasing the dual purpose attractiveness of the M3. Many prefer AWD in snow and many prefer the smoothness of an AT for around town daily driving.

As for the track I suspect the G8X will bury the F8X with the added traction/grip from AWD, functional aero the significant power bump plus advances in suspension technology.

It is likely the last pure ICE M3 and BMW will make it count. I think it will be as big of a leap forward in capabilities on and off track as any new M3 before it.
It may have added traction but where will the added grip come from? Don’t forget, the M340ix weighs almost 4,000lbs so the new AWD M3 will likely be there too. And 500BHP doesn’t really require AWD at the track. My car has that much power and absolutely no problems putting it down.

It is very likely the AWD AT will help on the street and in inclement weather, elsewhere let’s just see.
__________________

2018 F80 Santorini
2019 Z4 3.0i
2022 X2 M35i
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2020, 03:23 PM   #73
solstice
Major General
5457
Rep
7,037
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
It may have added traction but where will the added grip come from. Don’t forget, the M340ix weighs almost 4,000lbs so the new AWD M3 will likely be there too. And 500BHP doesn’t really require AWD at the track. My car has that much power and absolutely no problems putting it down.

It is very likely the AWD AT will help on the street and in inclement weather, elsewhere let’s just see.
Improved aero adding extra downforce and suspension improvements adding more time and pressure with all four tires firmly planted on the tarmac. Both add grip in any weather.
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2020, 03:45 PM   #74
adc
Major General
United_States
2725
Rep
6,750
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80 M3 ED
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MD/DC

iTrader: (12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Improved aero adding extra downforce and suspension improvements adding more time and pressure with all four tires firmly planted on the tarmac. Both add grip in any weather.
There will be no added downforce. No M3 ever really had downforce, except perhaps the limited editions (GTS etc). This is fact.

All the “aero” appendages you see on the M cars merely reduce lift. And only begin take effect over 100mph or so.

The biggest improvements in lap times from generation to generation, comparing stock to stock, usually come from better tire technology (and sizes), increases in axle width, transmission efficiency, and finally the powerband area under the curve.

Suspension technology hasn’t changed much in the land of bimmers, except perhaps the non-adjustable fancy shocks on the 330i track pack. EDC is not a game changer and other companies do suspensions much better than BMW these days.

(That is why I’m about to put an Ohlins R/T on my car).
__________________

2018 F80 Santorini
2019 Z4 3.0i
2022 X2 M35i
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2020, 04:43 PM   #75
solstice
Major General
5457
Rep
7,037
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
There will be no added downforce. No M3 ever really had downforce, except perhaps the limited editions (GTS etc). This is fact.

All the “aero” appendages you see on the M cars merely reduce lift. And only begin take effect over 100mph or so.

The biggest improvements in lap times from generation to generation, comparing stock to stock, usually come from better tire technology (and sizes), increases in axle width, transmission efficiency, and finally the powerband area under the curve.

Suspension technology hasn’t changed much in the land of bimmers, except perhaps the non-adjustable fancy shocks on the 330i track pack. EDC is not a game changer and other companies do suspensions much better than BMW these days.

(That is why I’m about to put an Ohlins R/T on my car).
You can clearly see a front lip and rear lips on the leaked G80 pictures similar to what the 911 GT RS is sporting and as for suspension we don’t know what it will be fitted with but the videos from the ring looks promising in terms of suspension improvements.

I suspect the G8X will stick like no other standard M3 using the same tires ( I agree that most grip improvements come from tires but that doesn’t make functional aero or suspension insignificant). The result will be a car that allows for higher corner entry speed and AWD will generate higher exit speed than an F80. Add the extra hp for straight line speed and I believe it will bury the F80.

Last edited by solstice; 05-28-2020 at 04:48 PM..
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2020, 04:48 PM   #76
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
There will be no added downforce. No M3 ever really had downforce, except perhaps the limited editions (GTS etc). This is fact.

All the “aero” appendages you see on the M cars merely reduce lift. And only begin take effect over 100mph or so.

The biggest improvements in lap times from generation to generation, comparing stock to stock, usually come from better tire technology (and sizes), increases in axle width, transmission efficiency, and finally the powerband area under the curve.

Suspension technology hasn’t changed much in the land of bimmers, except perhaps the non-adjustable fancy shocks on the 330i track pack. EDC is not a game changer and other companies do suspensions much better than BMW these days.

(That is why I’m about to put an Ohlins R/T on my car).
I haven't seen the numbers for the M3cs, but the M4cs does have net downforce as tested by Auto Motor & Sport. Given they both have similar aero components, it is fair to assume the M3cs likely also has net downforce.
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black
Appreciate 2
solstice5456.50
      05-28-2020, 05:57 PM   #77
Gizmo 335i
Captain
United_States
362
Rep
613
Posts

Drives: 2021 M2C BSM, 6MT
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: FL

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by frank.m2 View Post
Can you not fathom anyone who will not "grow" into it?
There's always that one guy in every thread, "yeah yeah you all hate it now but you'll love it later"

Do you think it's not possible that people just hate this new direction BMW is going and is jumping ship until they right the course?

This kind of comment is just backhanded belittling other peoples legitimate opinion.

Also why does one ever have to "grow into" this? This kind of cars are emotional purchases. If I don't love it at first sight, I'm not buying it.
Then don’t buy one. You must not be familiar with enthusiast car forums. There is always a loud crowd that hates the “new direction”, e.g. turbos, weight gain, size, tech, comfort, loss of that raw sports car feeling, etc. I don’t care if it’s a Ford or Porsche forum. It happens all the time and then 2 years later the haters come to appreciate that the new model improves upon the old in every objective, measurable way.

Nostalgia is a wonderful thing if it helps you sleep at night. How’s your Model T at the track?
Appreciate 2
      05-28-2020, 06:02 PM   #78
Thescout13
Brigadier General
Thescout13's Avatar
United_States
4944
Rep
4,976
Posts

Drives: '20 F80 M3CS, %E2%80%9818 GT3
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmo 335i View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank.m2 View Post
Can you not fathom anyone who will not "grow" into it?
There's always that one guy in every thread, "yeah yeah you all hate it now but you'll love it later"

Do you think it's not possible that people just hate this new direction BMW is going and is jumping ship until they right the course?

This kind of comment is just backhanded belittling other peoples legitimate opinion.

Also why does one ever have to "grow into" this? This kind of cars are emotional purchases. If I don't love it at first sight, I'm not buying it.
Then don't buy one. You must not be familiar with enthusiast car forums. There is always a loud crowd that hates the "new direction", e.g. turbos, weight gain, size, tech, comfort, loss of that raw sports car feeling, etc. I don't care if it's a Ford or Porsche forum. It happens all the time and then 2 years later the haters come to appreciate that the new model improves upon the old in every objective, measurable way.

Nostalgia is a wonderful thing if it helps you sleep at night. How's your Model T at the track?
Wicked fast. Broke my PR last time of 32 minutes around chuckwalla.
__________________
Wife's Car: 2020 X4M Competition, Alpine White on Black Alcantara and Biege
Current Car: 2018 F80 M3CS, SMB, DCT, ZEC, MPE
Recently Departed: 2020 F87 M2C, LBB, ZEC, 6MT (Euro Delivery Aug. 29, 2019, totaled by an idiot in a Camry who then ran from the scene)
Wife's Prior Car: 2018 F80 M3, Yas Marina Blue, DCT, Black 19s, Carbon Structure Anthracite Cloth/Leather Combination, Driving Assistance Package (Euro Delivery Oct. 9, 2017)
Appreciate 1
      05-28-2020, 06:02 PM   #79
DML
Colonel
DML's Avatar
968
Rep
2,017
Posts

Drives: 2020 Heritage
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Darien CT.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GymNut View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DML View Post
It's really okay if others like or dislike. Like others I'll make a choice, or not.
It looks like you've forgotten how much hate the F8X got when they were first revealed. Just do a search and you'll see what I mean.
I'm on my 7th Bimmer...Yeah I recall, but this Beaver Teeth grille takes the cake of ridicule.
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2020, 06:34 PM   #80
DieGrüneHölle
Colonel
1309
Rep
2,787
Posts

Drives: M
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: bmw

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GymNut View Post
It looks like you've forgotten how much hate the F8X got when they were first revealed. Just do a search and you'll see what I mean.
Due to the change from a NA V8 to a Turbo straight 6.

The hate this time around is 99% related to styling(giant pig nose grills).
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2020, 07:32 PM   #81
Gizmo 335i
Captain
United_States
362
Rep
613
Posts

Drives: 2021 M2C BSM, 6MT
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: FL

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
Wicked fast. Broke my PR last time of 32 minutes around chuckwalla.
That’s the spirit. Now rice it up with an intake, headers, and exhaust. Aw hell, might as well lower it with coilovers and slap a blower on it. You’ll shave 10 seconds off that time :
Appreciate 1
Thescout134944.00
      05-28-2020, 09:38 PM   #82
Jockey
Brigadier General
Jockey's Avatar
3435
Rep
4,978
Posts

Drives: 992 C4S
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Park City, UT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
There will be no added downforce. No M3 ever really had downforce, except perhaps the limited editions (GTS etc). This is fact.

All the "aero" appendages you see on the M cars merely reduce lift. And only begin take effect over 100mph or so.

The biggest improvements in lap times from generation to generation, comparing stock to stock, usually come from better tire technology (and sizes), increases in axle width, transmission efficiency, and finally the powerband area under the curve.

Suspension technology hasn't changed much in the land of bimmers, except perhaps the non-adjustable fancy shocks on the 330i track pack. EDC is not a game changer and other companies do suspensions much better than BMW these days.

(That is why I'm about to put an Ohlins R/T on my car).
You can clearly see a front lip and rear lips on the leaked G80 pictures similar to what the 911 GT RS is sporting and as for suspension we don't know what it will be fitted with but the videos from the ring looks promising in terms of suspension improvements.

I suspect the G8X will stick like no other standard M3 using the same tires ( I agree that most grip improvements come from tires but that doesn't make functional aero or suspension insignificant). The result will be a car that allows for higher corner entry speed and AWD will generate higher exit speed than an F80. Add the extra hp for straight line speed and I believe it will bury the F80.
GT RS aero? Yeah, no.

BMW better have given it bigger brakes to carry that extra AWD weight around. More weight equals on the brakes sooner which means that fancy aero (which I'm not quite sure it's going to have) has even a smaller window of effect.

I'll give you that I'm sure the AWD will help put that extra power down sooner. Let's see what the weight penalty is going to be first.
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2020, 12:22 AM   #83
solstice
Major General
5457
Rep
7,037
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
GT RS aero? Yeah, no.

BMW better have given it bigger brakes to carry that extra AWD weight around. More weight equals on the brakes sooner which means that fancy aero (which I'm not quite sure it's going to have) has even a smaller window of effect.

I'll give you that I'm sure the AWD will help put that extra power down sooner. Let's see what the weight penalty is going to be first.
The GT-R carries nearly 4K lbs, has AWD and similar “fancy aero” (The front lip / Canards adds 200+ lbs downforce). It does pretty well on the track.

Not saying the G8X will be as fast but there sure is potential with what we know so far to be significantly faster than the F8X.
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2020, 01:05 AM   #84
Sedan_Clan
Law Enforcer
Sedan_Clan's Avatar
Brazil
24810
Rep
22,222
Posts

Drives: '22 Chalk Gray Porsche C2S
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ..in your rearview!!!

iTrader: (26)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
The GT-R carries nearly 4K lbs, has AWD and similar “fancy aero” (The front lip / Canards adds 200+ lbs downforce). It does pretty well on the track.

Not saying the G8X will be as fast but there sure is potential with what we know so far to be significantly faster than the F8X.
Great point about the GT-R! That car is an animal. I've started to reconsider going with an AWD G8X rather than RWD if the AWD version can be optioned with a 6MT. If not, then RWD it is.
Appreciate 2
Frosty772.50
      05-29-2020, 07:30 AM   #85
Jockey
Brigadier General
Jockey's Avatar
3435
Rep
4,978
Posts

Drives: 992 C4S
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Park City, UT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
GT RS aero? Yeah, no.

BMW better have given it bigger brakes to carry that extra AWD weight around. More weight equals on the brakes sooner which means that fancy aero (which I'm not quite sure it's going to have) has even a smaller window of effect.

I'll give you that I'm sure the AWD will help put that extra power down sooner. Let's see what the weight penalty is going to be first.
The GT-R carries nearly 4K lbs, has AWD and similar "fancy aero" (The front lip / Canards adds 200+ lbs downforce). It does pretty well on the track.

Not saying the G8X will be as fast but there sure is potential with what we know so far to be significantly faster than the F8X.
And the GT-R is a 6-figure car that I wouldn't want to daily drive. It's harsh.

I'm impressed that you're able to make so many claims about the aero of this car while it's been mostly covered in camo.

Again, I'm sure this generation will be faster. That's at least one thing BMW has managed to do over generations.

There's just too much we don't know about it yet to start making huge claims.
Appreciate 1
///M TOWN13117.00
      05-29-2020, 07:40 AM   #86
V-Eight
Captain
V-Eight's Avatar
792
Rep
775
Posts

Drives: MY22 M3 G80 Comp.Xdrive
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Italy

iTrader: (0)

and remember..........

it'll probably be the last completely ICE.
Appreciate 1
///M TOWN13117.00
      05-29-2020, 08:16 AM   #87
spuntyb
Brigadier General
spuntyb's Avatar
United_States
4052
Rep
4,976
Posts

Drives: 2019 F90 Competition
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nativetexan View Post
Just throwing it out there that if your cars are that good that the next gen doesn't "scream to sell yours and buy it" then that's actually a good thing IMO. It speaks to the solid build of your models.

I'm not sure every gen release should make prior owners sell and buy new. It's really probably every 2 gens that a M owner will see a big difference.

E36 to e46 had a minimal difference IMO, E92 was its own oddly timed wonderful beast.

F80 and G80 are pretty much identical and similar IMO.

The next gen beyond G8x will likely have the most surprising changes.
The G80 brings AWD and AT, game changers for many in terms of increasing the dual purpose attractiveness of the M3. Many prefer AWD in snow and many prefer the smoothness of an AT for around town daily driving.

As for the track I suspect the G8X will bury the F8X with the added traction/grip from AWD, functional aero the significant power bump plus advances in suspension technology.

It is likely the last pure ICE M3 and BMW will make it count. I think it will be as big of a leap forward in capabilities on and off track as any new M3 before it.
Isn't it similar to the F90 setup, in that it's 4WD, not AWD?
__________________
<b>2023 M5C SRG|Aragon || 2018 Macan GTS</b>

2019 F90 Comp MBB|Black (sold)
2018 F80 ZCP TB|SS (sold)
2015 F30 335 AW|CR (sold)
2015 F31 MG|CR (sold)
2011 E90 JB|Oyster (sold)
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2020, 09:34 AM   #88
solstice
Major General
5457
Rep
7,037
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
And the GT-R is a 6-figure car that I wouldn't want to daily drive. It's harsh.

I'm impressed that you're able to make so many claims about the aero of this car while it's been mostly covered in camo.

Again, I'm sure this generation will be faster. That's at least one thing BMW has managed to do over generations.

There's just too much we don't know about it yet to start making huge claims.
What I’m claiming is that the type of aero seen on leaked pictures confirmed to be preproduction cars has the potential of adding significant downforce and grip. BMW is for this model using aero bits not earlier seen on standard M3s. Those are facts.

Agreed that we are speculating on how much impact it will or not have since we don’t know.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:08 AM.




g80
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST