[6oclockshadow]

Originally Posted by madpistol

That’s right!!! 2021 M340i is a Hybrid!!!

BRB… gonna go hug a tree.

I'm much more green than you. I got the hybrid M340i with vegan leather seats-Sensa Tech. All my woke friends are jealous.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by 6oclockshadow

I'm much more green than you. I got the hybrid M340i with vegan leather seats-Sensa Tech. All my woke friends are jealous.

My cars usually have leather seats, but the 2021 330i in my garage now has sensatech. The sales told me there is no leather available from BMW, and custom order will likely take a few months(with possible delays due to supply chain issues).

The senatech experience is surprisingly good, it feels less breathable but yet dissipates heat faster than leather, so it is quite functional(and at reduced cost too).

Hmm, a hybrid M340i, like a M340e? It is counterintuitive how a PHEV can be both high performance and fuel efficient.

The 330e has crazy discounts right now, but a test drive showed that once battery was exhausted, the gasoline-only drive back to dealer was no fun ....

[madpistol]

Originally Posted by 6oclockshadow

I'm much more green than you. I got the hybrid M340i with vegan leather seats-Sensa Tech. All my woke friends are jealous.

You sensible environmentalist, you...

[6oclockshadow]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

My cars usually have leather seats, but the 2021 330i in my garage now has sensatech. The sales told me there is no leather available from BMW, and custom order will likely take a few months(with possible delays due to supply chain issues).

The senatech experience is surprisingly good, it feels less breathable but yet dissipates heat faster than leather, so it is quite functional(and at reduced cost too).

Hmm, a hybrid M340i, like a M340e? It is counterintuitive how a PHEV can be both high performance and fuel efficient.

The 330e has crazy discounts right now, but a test drive showed that once battery was exhausted, the gasoline-only drive back to dealer was no fun ....

It is confounding how this engine can get such great mpg for the fun it gives.

[picaso]

I have both. I have 0 issues with either - wife loves the Tesla, I find pros/cons in both cars. That being said, I'd get a Tesla again without hesitation. This is my 3rd bmw and I'd still always love bmw.

However, I'd take a Tesla over a 330i

[SportySpice]

OP - I'm very sorry to hear about your experience with your Model 3. It's unfortunate but not surprising. Tesla's horrendous build quality and customer service are completely unacceptable from ANY modern car company, as are Musk's unmet promises (lies?) about their "full self driving" capability.

If you're able, dump that thing and get a real car from a company that knows how to build them. We're biased here, but I wholeheartedly agree with others on the beautiful package that is the M340. Comfortable and sophisticated when it needs to be, yet a rocket when you want it to be.

Finally, thank you for not calling your Model 3 an M3. To me, that's one of the Tesla fanboys' most egregious sins and it boils my blood whenever they do it. Good luck.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by picaso

However, I'd take a Tesla over a 330i

Sandy Munro interviewed Elon Musk asking about why Sandy's own Tesla has good panel gaps one side but not the other, and Musk's response was to buy at beginning or end of production ramp.

This correlates with my Model 3 order being in queue since early April, while Tesla is likely retooling the factory for end of Q2 ramp.

That is all good assuming customers can wait, hoping the kinks are worked out.

Or customers can test drive other brands with excellent fit and finish and panel and paint(e.g. BMW), and take one home if needed.

The latter is what happened to me.

[SportySpice]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Or customers can test drive other brands with excellent fit and finish and panel and paint(e.g. BMW), and take one home if needed.

The latter is what happened to me.

You made the right choice.

[Moonbags]

Teslas will keep getting better and better. ICE cars probably will not.

[madpistol]

Originally Posted by Moonbags

Teslas will keep getting better and better. ICE cars probably will not.

In 2007, we had the 335i.
In 2021, we have the M340i.

The M340i has roughly 100 HP more, gets better fuel economy, is more comfortable, makes a better noise… I could keep going.

ICE vehicles seems to be progressing just fine.

[Moonbags]

Originally Posted by madpistol

In 2007, we had the 335i.
In 2021, we have the M340i.

The M340i has roughly 100 HP more, gets better fuel economy, is more comfortable, makes a better noise… I could keep going.

ICE vehicles seems to be progressing just fine.

https://www.politico.eu/article/anna...e-change-cars/

It would be a foolish investment. I think this really is about as good as it gets.

[Merami fan]

Originally Posted by Moonbags

Teslas will keep getting better and better. ICE cars probably will not.

Which of these seems easier to achieve?
1) Established high-volume automakers sticking battery packs under their vehicles
2) Tesla catching up in build quality and general automaker know-how

Seems like 1 has already happened and 2 remains to be seen... Nothing wrong with thinking Tesla is cool. EVs may be an eventuality, but there's no need to rush adoption. New is only better when it's better, not upon conception. I can't get behind the brand until they get the car part of their cars down as well as competitors. I'm about as young and tech-savvy as a car owner can get, but I believe cars should be cars first and screens and gimmicks second...

Also, ICE development is far from finished. Just one example: Mercedes is getting over 400 horsepower out of a 2 liter 4 popper. Purists might be offended by a 4 cylinder hybrid having an AMG badge, but the performance is there. More efficient, more power, more torque, faster 0-60. (Yes, 2 liter 4 banger C63 in 2022.)

So long as people want to buy ICEs, companies will invest the requisite money into R&D. That's not coming to an end any time soon, even if it tapers off significantly in some markets. Maybe you can kiss ICEs goodbye in some European countries and California by 2035, but I'm confident in saying it'll take much longer for more widespread bans. Oil money is far more powerful than any notions of being green.

[madpistol]

Originally Posted by Moonbags

https://www.politico.eu/article/anna...e-change-cars/

It would be a foolish investment. I think this really is about as good as it gets.

They said that 10 years ago too, and yet, here we are, with 400HP cars that also get over 30 MPG.

I’m not saying electric won’t eventually win, because if battery tech continues to improve, it will (and so will many other electronic devices). The problem is batteries. They’re heavy, and not super dense for the amount of energy they hold. That’s what makes liquid fuels continue to be relevant; the amount of energy they hold in a single drop is pretty incredible.

[Moonbags]

Originally Posted by Merami fan

So long as people want to buy ICEs, companies will invest the requisite money into R&D. That's not coming to an end any time soon, even if it tapers off significantly in some markets. Maybe you can kiss ICEs goodbye in some European countries and California by 2035, but I'm confident in saying it'll take much longer for more widespread bans. Oil money is far more powerful than any notions of being green.

Fair points you make, but it really wasn't until more recently that automakers even gave a crap to try to electrify. Tesla was mostly a side show at first. Where I live, I see them everywhere. They are rapidly gaining market share.

So we now see the first run of all-electric cars from the ICE makers and, it is clear, they are way behind in R& D when it comes to range and software. The Taycan is a nice effort, probably the one I'd get. But they can't match Tesla on affordability yet and that's where the market share erosion starts to accelerate.

Add in aggressive climate targets and EV incentives — not to mention pandemic-driven supply chain disruption — and you get an environment where it makes less and less sense to invest in outgoing technology.

Anyhow I never said I particularly like Teslas. Just that they will keep getting better and - I believe - we are about at "Peak ICE." Frankly, I wanted to like Teslas but think they look lame (except the S) and feel like sterile appliances inside.

So now is the time to buy a good ICE, because we may be at the peak. That's why I bought my M340.

[Merami fan]

Originally Posted by Moonbags

Fair points you make, but it really wasn't until more recently that automakers even gave a crap to try to electrify. Tesla was mostly a side show at first. Where I live, I see them everywhere. They are rapidly gaining market share.

So we now see the first run of all-electric cars from the ICE makers and, it is clear, they are way behind in R& D when it comes to range and software. The Taycan is a nice effort, probably the one I'd get. But they can't match Tesla on affordability yet and that's where the market share erosion starts to accelerate.

Add in aggressive climate targets and EV incentives — not to mention pandemic-driven supply chain disruption — and you get an environment where it makes less and less sense to invest in outgoing technology.

Anyhow I never said I particularly like Teslas. Just that they will keep getting better and - I believe - we are about at "Peak ICE." Frankly, I wanted to like Teslas but think they look lame (except the S) and feel like sterile appliances inside.

So now is the time to buy a good ICE, because we may be at the peak. That's why I bought my M340.

Not trying to be anti-Tesla or 'ICE forever,' just providing counterpoints.

I'd argue the Taycan has an equally good or better drivetrain, at least from a performance standpoint. Holds up to repeated launches while Teslas do not. Tesla has a huge lead in range but others will likely close the gap within the decade. Especially relevant to this forum, BMW has been in the news for its statements about EV targets and its initial investment round in Solid Power (battery start-up).

Tesla has benefited massively from federal money. Selling emissions credits and lobbying to be given more tax credits. They would not have done nearly as well without these questionable practices. Of course, the buyers of the emissions credits are complicit too. Kudos to Tesla for getting into the EV game early and taking the lion's share of the initial market and $7,500 rebates; you can't argue they didn't get that right. But their momentum or even cash flow and entire company could be dead in the water without these billions from the government.

GM is the only other auto maker with over 200,000 EV units sold (Chevy Bolt). But Teslas aren't that cheap. Bolt: 36.5k base, 41.7k premier. Model 3: 39k base, 48k long range, 57k performance. Mach-E: 43k base, 50k Route 1. Even though the prices aren't far apart, Teslas do not lease well at all, especially compared to the Bolt. And the "premium" brands aren't really trying to compete with the base Model 3 or Y. For similar money, any German offering is going to be higher quality than a Model S or X...

I think the media portrayal of Tesla is rather over-hyped, as reflected by the astronomical valuation of the company (on what basis?). They'll always be a major player in the EV market, but much of their market share has already been snatched up by others, and will continue to be.

Once EV offerings are on par with ICE counterparts within each brand, but with a $7,000 rebate, rising gas prices, and taxes (proposed or existing) in play... That's where the ICE peak is, in my opinion. I have to imagine ICEs will continue to improve until the end, though, just as EVs will. You're right about the EV eventuality--I just think that's a slightly more distant future.

[Moonbags]

R&D and factory tooling have become far too large a portion of an auto company's budget to allow one to drive meaningful innovation in both electric and ICE. Closing the gap with Tesla means big shifts NOW on the ground floor. I'm calling the peak.