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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G80 M3 Sedan Forum (2019+) Carsten Pries BMW M Product Head Confirms AWD and More For G80 M3

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      03-13-2019, 10:21 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by ///M-Furby View Post
I can't believe you sold your e90 m3. what's wrong with you!

Touché. Was a sad day, but love my e36.
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      03-13-2019, 10:22 AM   #24
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If AWD is better than RWD on a race track, then why did Porsche use a RWD 992 to get their Nurburgring time?
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      03-13-2019, 10:26 AM   #25
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Just don't understand the fascination with buying an automatic to get .05 seconds faster the dozen or so times you go to a drag strip. that's about 4 of the 100k miles you will put on the car. give me a manual so I can enjoy the other 99k miles.

AWD adds weight, but, as long as you can send everything to the rear whenever you want, just add a tune to make up for the weight. AWD is certainly different, but its not aweful as long as it is optional. My Audi has it's character, but don't get it sideways! No control!

BTW, why is everyone complaining that they can't the HP to the ground? That's not a RWD issue, that just means that, A) Your wheel are not wide enough, and B) You are trying to floor it at to low of a speed. There is NOTHING more exhilarating than flooring 500 or 600 horses in 3rd gear (manual) and running it out. Just cant do it in 1st or 2nd.
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      03-13-2019, 10:27 AM   #26
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Above all these nonsense comments, when will we see these in California so i can retire my F80?
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      03-13-2019, 10:32 AM   #27
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No 6MT option until a CS or CSL version?!?!!!

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      03-13-2019, 10:34 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M-Furby View Post
What's with all the hate on AWD?

Give me a break already. Many of the super/hyper cars are AWD. The current gen M3 (competition) can't lay down all the power to the rear wheels without causing some spin. I track my car and it annoys me that after a curve I can't plant the pedal all the way down without worrying if spin (aka loss of power, loss of acceleration, loss of speed, loss of TRACTION ) will occur. Or how about the spin on a dead start...So great, 444 HP, but can't put it all down because the rear wheels can't handle it.
I am usually not in the camp that current M's have lost there "feel" and "soul", but adding AWD generally does change the driving dynamics and how you drive the car. Yes it might be faster around a track, but personally I would rather have the traditional feel of RWD and work on the skill of exiting corners without spinning (or with some slip) than just being able to point and shoot. Part of the fun is getting the most out of what you have rather than the car being better than you.

That said I am not in "hate" group, but rather cautiously optimistic that through electronics and differentials the car still feels RWD and reacts the same way. It is also is promising that they mention an RWD mode like the M5, so we have that going for us, which is nice!
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      03-13-2019, 10:40 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haywood View Post
Touché. Was a sad day, but love my e36.
e36 is also a great car. I am considering the e90. Would love a late model, fully loaded. But that's in the 2-3 year period.
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      03-13-2019, 10:41 AM   #30
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M3 with AWD would be a welcome addition. Looking forward to the test drive.
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      03-13-2019, 10:43 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2Rob View Post
Just don't understand the fascination with buying an automatic to get .05 seconds faster the dozen or so times you go to a drag strip. that's about 4 of the 100k miles you will put on the car. give me a manual so I can enjoy the other 99k miles.

AWD adds weight, but, as long as you can send everything to the rear whenever you want, just add a tune to make up for the weight. AWD is certainly different, but its not aweful as long as it is optional. My Audi has it's character, but don't get it sideways! No control!

BTW, why is everyone complaining that they can't the HP to the ground? That's not a RWD issue, that just means that, A) Your wheel are not wide enough, and B) You are trying to floor it at to low of a speed. There is NOTHING more exhilarating than flooring 500 or 600 horses in 3rd gear (manual) and running it out. Just cant do it in 1st or 2nd.
A couple years ago I go to the track (M Track days) with a friend of mine. She has the M2 (just came out) and because she bought it off the lot it was DCT. During the drive up she said she was going to sell her M2 and buy a manual version. She said she felt it would be much better for the track (she was new to tracking, and this may have been her first experience...i might be wrong about the last part). After the track event, she no longer wanted to sell the M2. She was so focused on driving she was happy to not have to bother about manual shifting.

On top of that, the DCT is quicker than manual, and when you track, quicker is better.

For DD, I live in the city, so manual is more effort than worth it. Plus, how do you eat a bacon cheeseburger, drink a milkshake and drive a manual at the same time?
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      03-13-2019, 10:44 AM   #32
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100% all of the complainers here will jump on the g80 bandwagon as soon as it releases, the cars gonna be a blast to drive, have more tech and look great, so stop complaining.
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      03-13-2019, 10:51 AM   #33
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The laws of physics are what they are and cannot be changed. As the horsepower continues to increase to satisfy customer demand, transferring all power to rear wheels only becomes impractical.
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      03-13-2019, 10:53 AM   #34
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I have no beef with AWD but few things are more exhilarating than the rush of a powerful RWD vehicle with a manual transmission..

Some might even call that 'pure'
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      03-13-2019, 10:58 AM   #35
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I don't understand something . . . why wouldn't BMW offer the 6MT and AWD combination, even if it's only on the lower-powered basic version?

There are plenty of everyday-driver customers who would buy this.
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      03-13-2019, 10:59 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonymac1 View Post
100% all of the complainers here will jump on the g80 bandwagon as soon as it releases, the cars gonna be a blast to drive, have more tech and look great, so stop complaining.
Right! No complaints!
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      03-13-2019, 11:01 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okolisr View Post
I don't understand something . . . why wouldn't BMW offer the 6MT and AWD combination, even if it's only on the lower-powered basic version?

There are plenty of everyday-driver customers who would buy this.
I believe it's because they would have to crash test and certify 4 different variations of the same vehicle and they probably don't see it as being a worthwhile investment..
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      03-13-2019, 11:26 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okolisr View Post
I don't understand something . . . why wouldn't BMW offer the 6MT and AWD combination, even if it's only on the lower-powered basic version?

There are plenty of everyday-driver customers who would buy this.
Exactly! Part of the NA take rate for manuals on the M3 (25%) and M2 (50%) was directly coming from their competition not offering a manual transmission. So continue to take those customers and the ones that are wanting AWD and own a larger part of that segment. Also, the manual will offset the weight of the AWD, making it a good DAily Driver package.

The HP war and 0-60 times are ruining sports cars IMO. A 350HP car that is smaller and lighter is much more fun than a complex 500hp monster that needs additional systems, more width, and complex traction mechanisms to handle the unnecessary/unusable power.
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      03-13-2019, 11:34 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
Exactly! Part of the NA take rate for manuals on the M3 (25%) and M2 (50%) was directly coming from their competition not offering a manual transmission. So continue to take those customers and the ones that are wanting AWD and own a larger part of that segment. Also, the manual will offset the weight of the AWD, making it a good DAily Driver package.

The HP war and 0-60 times are ruining sports cars IMO. A 350HP car that is smaller and lighter is much more fun than a complex 500hp monster that needs additional systems, more width, and complex traction mechanisms to handle the unnecessary/unusable power.
I know manual is lighter (just a tiny bit) than auto, but how does that make it DD? Sitting in traffic and going from neutral to 1st to 2nd and back to neutral, over and over is not my idea of fun. Trying to see the other point of view on this

For me, 0.1 seconds from manual to auto is not an issue (I ain't that good anyhow), it's allowing me to focus on driving on the track where split second reaction (shifting) can mean the difference in losing control or staying the course. AWD = putting power down, because spin is a total waste of power
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      03-13-2019, 11:36 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex2364 View Post
If AWD is better than RWD on a race track, then why did Porsche use a RWD 992 to get their Nurburgring time?

Rear engine vs front engine weight distribution, that's why. There's less need for awd on a rear engined car as the weight is over the rear wheels and not the front wheels. M3 needs AWD.
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      03-13-2019, 11:42 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex2364 View Post
If AWD is better than RWD on a race track, then why did Porsche use a RWD 992 to get their Nurburgring time?
The 911 has the weight of the engine over the rear wheels. Completely different dynamic. Traction off the line isn't as big of an issue.

They also moved the engine 10 or eleven mm even closer to the center of the car with the 992.
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      03-13-2019, 11:48 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex2364 View Post
If AWD is better than RWD on a race track, then why did Porsche use a RWD 992 to get their Nurburgring time?
Remember that car has a much different weight distribution with the engine behind the rear wheels. It also drives much different than an M car. You can't apply AWD concepts from the 911 to the M3. Also I think awd is about being faster on the street. Not so much as being a whole lot faster on the track.
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      03-13-2019, 12:03 PM   #43
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Car manufacturers focus more and more on transportation. The driving fun factor is going with every new series more to the background.

If you don t use the 4wd system you are carrying the weight always with you.

New M3 is just an old M5. Nice fast daily driver. 1600 kg and awd is no fun anymore. That is transportation!

We need to go back to smaller nimbler cars with less horsepower and lower weight.

I drive an 950kg and 330hp e30 m3 DTM on track. This car is so amazing.
that 950kg feel is a dream to steer and brake into corners.

I am done buying bigger and heavier ///M Cars. Now AWD also. It s getting worse with every new series. If i want an awd then it s either a x3M or a 4wd car with awd system with mechanical diffs like an mitsubishi evolution rally car in a very small car.
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      03-13-2019, 12:06 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfm56d7b View Post
The laws of physics are what they are and cannot be changed. As the horsepower continues to increase to satisfy customer demand, transferring all power to rear wheels only becomes impractical.
You might be right...but not at the horsepower levels we expect to see for the G80/82.

IIRC the G80/82 Competition will be around 500 BHP...which just happens to be the amount we saw in the E60 M5...which was also RWD, all the time.

I am not an E60 expert - but I don't recall complaints with being able to use all the power with a full-time RWD car at those BHP levels. I think most of the complaints were associated with the SMG.

Just an alternative viewpoint...
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