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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G80 M3 Sedan Forum (2019+) Carsten Pries BMW M Product Head Confirms AWD and More For G80 M3

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      03-13-2019, 03:28 PM   #67
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I love my F80 but its got some serious traction issues. Its about the worst car I've ever driven at putting its power to the ground. Not even sure people realize how intrusive the traction control is on these cars to keep them aimed the right direction. I've heard the euro mdm coding helps but even in MDM its a struggle.
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      03-13-2019, 04:03 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by BwoodBMW View Post
I love my F80 but its got some serious traction issues. Its about the worst car I've ever driven at putting its power to the ground. Not even sure people realize how intrusive the traction control is on these cars to keep them aimed the right direction. I've heard the euro mdm coding helps but even in MDM its a struggle.
Have you tried 295s in the rear? I got the Michelin Pilot 4Ss for the back, and 295s on the width, and that has helped me a lot.
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      03-13-2019, 04:04 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by ron_jeremy View Post
But E60 M5 had a V10 NA engine, not a TT I6 with massive amount of low end torque. It's a different world really.
I am pretty sure that V10 had 520 NM of torque...certainly not characteristic of a FI motor, but not a dog either.
It is a beast the S85, but it needed alot of RPM to sing, the torque wasn't as instant and imense as S55, had a much better sound than the latter though
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      03-13-2019, 04:42 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tareemaa View Post
So it sounds like maybe a manual in a CS version of the car?! So I have to spend around 100k for an M3 just to have a manual?!

Sucks that numbers wars govern so much of what happens with these performance cars, my e90/991 combo is looking better and better to me...
I'm wondering about this too...what happened to the 'pure' model that we heard about a month or so back? This article mentions nothing about that.

The 'pure' was allegedly going to be less expensive than the other models. Making it CS would send the price far north?

Or am I missing something here ?
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      03-13-2019, 04:49 PM   #71
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I wonder how many 6MT owners complain about lack of traction. I have never had a big issue, and I suspect that manual clutch operation naturally softens the torque shock to the wheels on upshifts and provides some inherent modulation.

That, and unless you actually drive your DCT actually like a true manual (100% control of gear changes, planning shifts in advance, etc.) there's always at least a little guesswork in matching your throttle modulation to what the transmission will do.

Regardless, DCT and automatic cars are simply not fun on the street to me. I enjoy driving my 230hp ZHP on my commute far more than any automatic car I've ever driven, including my S4 and various other M cars, AMG's, and PDK Porsches. Having a manual keeps you engaged in the process all the time, and clicking off a perfect series of heel/toe downshifts can make even stopping at a stoplight entertaining.

If all you want to do is put your foot down and go fast, buy a Tesla. There are a dozen of other cars out there if you want an AWD automatic that doesn't take any skill to drive. It's akin to wanting a Camry with a big block V8 . . . that's just not what the car should be, and you'd be better off just buying a muscle car.

Don't get me wrong, I clearly understand the trends in the market and I don't blame people if they want an AWD car because it lets them drive it in the winter or they don't really care about driving on the track or something. The thing that gets me is when people say they "don't understand the hate for AWD." That should be pretty obvious . . . it's taking away one of the main factors that makes the M3 special and unique, and one of the main factors that gives it its character. Sort of like how an Ecoboost Mustang will *never* be as special as a GT350, regardless of how it performs.
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      03-13-2019, 05:03 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by 6ixSpd View Post
Oh really? Porsche, Ferrari, and McLaren vehemently disagree.

And ventilated seats for a car seeing the track? Sheesh, you're the anti-thesis of the performance driving demographic.

Sounds like you'd be better served by the latest Gran Turismo.
why you gotta go there? GT is my go to game bro
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      03-13-2019, 05:43 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tareemaa View Post
So it sounds like maybe a manual in a CS version of the car?! So I have to spend around 100k for an M3 just to have a manual?!

Sucks that numbers wars govern so much of what happens with these performance cars, my e90/991 combo is looking better and better to me...
Every report prior - Has stated an M3 Pure variant would be available in RWD, 6MT, less power, less money....That is the one I will be buying if available, but I feel bad for the Xdrive guys that can't option a manual on an Mcar.
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      03-13-2019, 06:38 PM   #74
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Can we all just get along.

It is what it is. Times are changing so rapidly nowadays that day you drive your new BMW off the lot it car becomes outdated. Manuals are unfortunately just about done. AWD automatics are the future and already here for us now. We are going to end up like Mercedes and Audi. It's just the reality. Even though I won't be purchasing the G80 I'm excited to see what BMW has in store for it. I'll still be going to the grave with my manual F80 though. When I get older I'll probably look into the X3M or something in those lines for the future daily or for the future wife. Haha.
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      03-13-2019, 07:23 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
I wonder how many 6MT owners complain about lack of traction. I have never had a big issue, and I suspect that manual clutch operation naturally softens the torque shock to the wheels on upshifts and provides some inherent modulation.

That, and unless you actually drive your DCT actually like a true manual (100% control of gear changes, planning shifts in advance, etc.) there's always at least a little guesswork in matching your throttle modulation to what the transmission will do.

Regardless, DCT and automatic cars are simply not fun on the street to me. I enjoy driving my 230hp ZHP on my commute far more than any automatic car I've ever driven, including my S4 and various other M cars, AMG's, and PDK Porsches. Having a manual keeps you engaged in the process all the time, and clicking off a perfect series of heel/toe downshifts can make even stopping at a stoplight entertaining.

If all you want to do is put your foot down and go fast, buy a Tesla. There are a dozen of other cars out there if you want an AWD automatic that doesn't take any skill to drive. It's akin to wanting a Camry with a big block V8 . . . that's just not what the car should be, and you'd be better off just buying a muscle car.

Don't get me wrong, I clearly understand the trends in the market and I don't blame people if they want an AWD car because it lets them drive it in the winter or they don't really care about driving on the track or something. The thing that gets me is when people say they "don't understand the hate for AWD." That should be pretty obvious . . . it's taking away one of the main factors that makes the M3 special and unique, and one of the main factors that gives it its character. Sort of like how an Ecoboost Mustang will *never* be as special as a GT350, regardless of how it performs.
Obviously many disagree about the DCT vs manual argument. I only had MT cars prior to my first experience with DCT. It was definitely fun shifting and dropping the clutch. But after driving DCT, I get the same thrill which is from shifting at whatever rpm I wanted. I was happy to get rid of a third pedal and free up one hand.

If you use DCT as it's meant to be used, i feel it's just as "fun" as MT. It shifts just as "hard" and is crisp. When I don't want to shift manually anymore, I just pop it into auto. Now I haven't driven the 8 spd auto, but it doesn't sound like it drives or shifts the same way. Anyone driven the m5?
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      03-13-2019, 07:33 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M-Furby View Post
What's with all the hate on AWD?

Give me a break already. Many of the super/hyper cars are AWD. The current gen M3 (competition) can't lay down all the power to the rear wheels without causing some spin. I track my car and it annoys me that after a curve I can't plant the pedal all the way down without worrying if spin (aka loss of power, loss of acceleration, loss of speed, loss of TRACTION ) will occur. Or how about the spin on a dead start...So great, 444 HP, but can't put it all down because the rear wheels can't handle it.

AWD will mean a slightly heavier car (if you are that concerned, go on a diet and change your seats to race car seats ), and it will mean all the power gets planted to the ground.

Do people not remember the 0-60 times of the 335xi vs 335i? Which was quicker? That's right, the XI. Most tracks that I go on are too short to enjoy max speed, and many have lots of curves (just the way I like them ) which means, 0-60 and 0-100 times are more important than top speed (We the People of the United States of America do not have an unrestricted highway ).

Now, if you want to complain about something: Lack of ventilated seats. When tracking my car the windows MUST be rolled down, and it's hot outside. I'd like my bootay to not be hot. Vent my BOOTAY
If the throttle pedal was supposed to be an on/off switch, bmw would have fitted one cos itís much cheaper. Learn to modulate your throttle and youíll have all the fun in the world at the track.

Lazy driving is not an excuse.


Iíve driven the M3, regular and ZCP, on track in wet or dry without any problems. Actually was always one of the quicker cars there in the rain, those Cup 2 on Porscheís are crap in the wet. I have absolutely no idea what you guys are complaining about with lack of rear traction. In fact, itís still lack of grip at the front which limits track potential.
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      03-13-2019, 08:19 PM   #77
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Man, shit. I guess this will be my last M3 6 speed since it won't be an option 😞 maybe I'll have to buy an old e46 to pair with a G80..
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      03-13-2019, 08:59 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by M2Rob View Post
Blasphemy! Every car guy will tell you, it's a car, not a restaurant! If you want cup holders and automatic transmissions, buy a Honda!

So, my final statement on the transmission. I dont let the car select my radio station or the volume. I dont let the car select the temperature or the window status. I dont let the car select my seat position or height. And i never want the car to steer, brake, or accelerate for me. So, why, in the hell, would I let the car pick the gears for me? Why buy a sports car if it is going to self drive?
The only honda I ever thought of buying was the civic. I got in one, and my head hit the roofline. It was then a 2000 Dodge Intrepid, then a 96 Nissan Maxima, then 2006 330xi, then 2012 335xi, then M3.

It's all preference my friend. You let the car do a lot of automatic things for you (e.g., traction control, navigation, todays climate control is automated, auto-high beam assist, and more). Do I want my car driving for me? Maybe, at 3 AM after driving for 8 hours and I'm exhausted, but frankly, wouldn't trust it enough to actually fall asleep. Do I want my car to shift gears - when it does it faster and better than me - yup. I know several pro and notable race car drivers that love the auto of today on the track. For me, it lets me focus on turning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMon View Post
"Now, if you want to complain about something: Lack of ventilated seats. When tracking my car the windows MUST be rolled down, and it's hot outside. I'd like my bootay to not be hot. Vent my BOOTAY "


You just need a cool shirt system! That is what I use when I track my M3. Cooler sits nicely bolted down in the back seat floor. Put on under your fire suit and your good to go!
Cool shirt? I tried taking my shirt off the track, but when they saw my au-natural sweater they told me to put a shirt on or be track banned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romo View Post
^In this case it`s not the weight that makes the difference, but the wheelbase is.

I`ve driven them both, extensively, the M2 is by far the more nimble and agile car, quicker steering reactions. That`s how I want my BMW`s.
THere definitely is a difference. I got to drive M2, M3 Comp and M4 Comp at M Track days and i could clearly tell the difference between M2 and M3/4. However, after coming out of a curve, I felt the lack of power in the M2 made me unhappy - and to me, happiness is key. Others will have different feelings, and thats perfectly fine.

Frankly, I'm happy BMW has different version. Auto, Manual, AWD, RWD and the combinations...something for everyone should be celebrated

Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
Manual fans that want an AWD daily with 4-doors are forced to a Golf R or Subaru, now that others are not offering manuals. That is why I bought a Focus RS after they announced they would not make them anymore. I need one AWD car and will only buy a manual. I am not sure why a manufacturer like BMW would not jump on this segment?

I consider myself a die-hard manual fan and do not like seeing it discontinued in the 3 series and only available in the M3 Pure.

YMMV, but owning a manual and driving in heavy traffic has never been a problem for me, only once on a hill in San Francisco moving a couple inches at a time for over an hour did I ever consider not having a 6MT.
It's all about what makes us happy

Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
If the throttle pedal was supposed to be an on/off switch, bmw would have fitted one cos itís much cheaper. Learn to modulate your throttle and youíll have all the fun in the world at the track.

Lazy driving is not an excuse.


Iíve driven the M3, regular and ZCP, on track in wet or dry without any problems. Actually was always one of the quicker cars there in the rain, those Cup 2 on Porscheís are crap in the wet. I have absolutely no idea what you guys are complaining about with lack of rear traction. In fact, itís still lack of grip at the front which limits track potential.
No need to be inflammatory. I know how to modulate my throttle however, if you can't plant your foot all the way down without causing wheel spin then your car has a traction problem. I've had this occur on speed...Summer, straight line, dry going about 30-50, put foot all the way down and feel a bit of squirrel. Dude, that's not lazy on my part, that just a car that can't handle the power
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      03-13-2019, 11:59 PM   #79
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Finally after all my years of hard lobbying in getting BMW M Division to listen. We will have a bad ass AWD M3 & M4!!!

Hell yeah!!!

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      03-14-2019, 01:39 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M-Furby View Post
No need to be inflammatory. I know how to modulate my throttle however, if you can't plant your foot all the way down without causing wheel spin then your car has a traction problem. I've had this occur on speed...Summer, straight line, dry going about 30-50, put foot all the way down and feel a bit of squirrel. Dude, that's not lazy on my part, that just a car that can't handle the power
Some of us like a car whose engine will readily over-power the rear tires, that's why we like driving RWD cars! Many people don't care about this and those people will find AWD more enjoyable but for me, it's important that the rear of the car can be steered with the throttle even in 3rd or 4th gear. I don't like a car that's overly stable or has 'too much' traction for its power level because it's not nearly as fun to me.

From what I've seen and heard about the new M xDrive system, I'm not too worried because it seems it keeps this RWD character that I enjoy but adds even more performance and safety on top of that which is very cool. My ideal G80 M3 would be M xDrive & 6 speed manual.
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      03-14-2019, 02:56 AM   #81
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I'm just so confused... Didn't someone confirm the M3 sDrive "Pure" version was supposed to come with a 6spd. So does this mean this is the last generation for M2/M3/M4 to come in a 6spd manual????
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      03-14-2019, 05:05 AM   #82
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Yeah i think there will be no manual anymore. If the m3 gets no manual then the m2 also gets no manual.

Bmw is not going to make a manual gearbox fit for just one car.

All BMW 3 and 4 series get the 8HP ZF gearbox and also the M3 and M4 will get the automatic gearbox with some sort of trackmode for faster shifts. ZF 8HP76X will be in the M3. The choice for automatic vs DCT is price wise. DCT is much more expensive gearbox.
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      03-14-2019, 05:30 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2Rob View Post
Blasphemy! Every car guy will tell you, it's a car, not a restaurant! If you want cup holders and automatic transmissions, buy a Honda!

So, my final statement on the transmission. I dont let the car select my radio station or the volume. I dont let the car select the temperature or the window status. I dont let the car select my seat position or height. And i never want the car to steer, brake, or accelerate for me. So, why, in the hell, would I let the car pick the gears for me? Why buy a sports car if it is going to self drive?
All of the things you "dont let the car" do are literally automatic.
You press a button to select the radio station
You press a button to set the volume
You press a button to select the temperature
You press a button to set the window status
You press a button to select your seat position or height
With an automatic transmission with paddle shifters, you press a button to shift. No one is forcing you or advocating that you use the fully automatic mode. So based on your logic, there's no difference between the rest of the automatic things on your car and an automatic transmission w/ paddle shifters.

*insert mic drop here*
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      03-14-2019, 08:21 AM   #84
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If they are going to take away the MT i just hope they are going to give us something in return cough G81 cough.
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      03-14-2019, 08:42 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by BimmerMat135 View Post
If they are going to take away the MT i just hope they are going to give us something in return cough G81 cough.
G81 xDrive 6MT!!!
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      03-14-2019, 08:53 AM   #86
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With a manual there is no switching from awd to rwd.

So it is either rwd manual or zf8 automatic with awd to rwd switch

I don t think bmw will make a manual m3 anymore!
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      03-14-2019, 09:56 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M-Furby View Post
No need to be inflammatory. I know how to modulate my throttle however, if you can't plant your foot all the way down without causing wheel spin then your car has a traction problem. I've had this occur on speed...Summer, straight line, dry going about 30-50, put foot all the way down and feel a bit of squirrel. Dude, that's not lazy on my part, that just a car that can't handle the power
Put 295 high grip compound in the rear and you are all set. No need for 100kg drivetrain penalty with that huge rotating mass vs. CFRP of F8x.
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      03-14-2019, 10:35 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRAU GRAU View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerMat135 View Post
If they are going to take away the MT i just hope they are going to give us something in return cough G81 cough.
G81 xDrive 6MT!!!
This is what we all want but i guess it make too much sense for Bmw so instead they will sell you a X3M overpriced and over weight with a 8AT.
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