[solstice]

Originally Posted by tehvantes

It's one of the only times my wife has gotten an audible reaction from me with her acceleration surprising me.

When my wife accelerates surprisingly I’m always audible

[tehvantes]

Originally Posted by solstice

When my wife accelerates surprisingly I’m always audible

Badum tish

[ZCD1]

Even in Germany they recognize the significance of the Model 3:

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-mode...he-year-award/

[mkoesel]

Friendly reminder to everyone that you don't have to read every single thread on Bimmerpost. If a thread doesn't interest you, please move on. If a thread elicits an emotional reaction followed by a overwhelmingly compelling feel to troll, this information may be of interest or value:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...e-trolls-troll

Or maybe not, in which case, feel free to skip that too.

[J-Tim]

After driving an Extender Range Model 3 and now G21, I am really torn between these two.

Coming out of e46 wagon, the new model feels just like a modern version of my car.

Tesla however, takes the experience of a car to a whole new level and makes even the new BMW feel... well, old school.

G21 is cheaper, compared to Model 3 by around AUD20k. At the same time, the BMW (being ICE) will cost more to run.


hmmmm

[pmanzonfotos]

Car Reviewers / Auto Magazines in the USA will find fault with the 3 series in regards to ride feel and steering feel, but when it comes to the tesla they don't give it a second look nor count it against the car and the tesla is numb when it comes to steering feel.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by pmanzonfotos

Car Reviewers / Auto Magazines in the USA will find fault with the 3 series in regards to ride feel and steering feel, but when it comes to the tesla they don't give it a second look nor count it against the car and the tesla is numb when it comes to steering feel.

BMW is held at a different standard. Tesla doesn't have a long history of making the best all around sports cars with sharp and ample steering feel. The 3 series is held to a higher standard by the automotive press and enthusiasts because of its history. Having dead steering in a Tesla is fine, as they came out after hydraulic steering was removed in favor of EPS and it has become the norm in the automotive world, and as they were never known for great steering, they are known for mixing electric efficiency with hair raising thrills/performance, something of which is so unique to the market that it overshadows any downfalls it may have.

BMW on the other hand had made excellent steering a staple of its cars for decades, and thus without significant improvement in the past decade of numb steering in the 3er, while other cars like the ATS, Giulia, and others have leapfrogged the 3 series in terms of handling, and have proven that EPS can have great feel, the automotive press are going to criticize BMW, as they were once the pioneers of sports cars, but can't/purposefully won't design an EPS rack with feel.

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by J-Tim

After driving an Extender Range Model 3 and now G21, I am really torn between these two.

Coming out of e46 wagon, the new model feels just like a modern version of my car.

Tesla however, takes the experience of a car to a whole new level and makes even the new BMW feel... well, old school.

G21 is cheaper, compared to Model 3 by around AUD20k. At the same time, the BMW (being ICE) will cost more to run.


hmmmm

also there are EV tax credits.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

BMW is held at a different standard. Tesla doesn't have a long history of making the best all around sports cars with sharp and ample steering feel. The 3 series is held to a higher standard by the automotive press and enthusiasts because of its history. Having dead steering in a Tesla is fine, as they came out after hydraulic steering was removed in favor of EPS and it has become the norm in the automotive world, and as they were never known for great steering, they are known for mixing electric efficiency with hair raising thrills/performance, something of which is so unique to the market that it overshadows any downfalls it may have.

BMW on the other hand had made excellent steering a staple of its cars for decades, and thus without significant improvement in the past decade of numb steering in the 3er, while other cars like the ATS, Giulia, and others have leapfrogged the 3 series in terms of handling, and have proven that EPS can have great feel, the automotive press are going to criticize BMW, as they were once the pioneers of sports cars, but can't/purposefully won't design an EPS rack with feel.

But Tesla has no problem charging German luxury car prices for their products. So yes they should be equally held to that same high standard when asking for similar astronomical sums of money.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

But Tesla has no problem charging German luxury car prices for their products. So yes they should be equally held to that same high standard when asking for similar astronomical sums of money.

I personally am not saying they shouldn't be held to the same standard, I'm saying its their lack of history that causes them to not be held to the same standard by the automotive press and enthusiasts. Tesla is held to a high standard in electrics, BMW is held to a high standard when it comes to sports cars and steering, that's just how things are and it will likely stay that way for some time.

Imagine this, you've owned every generation of 3 series up until the E90, and have only experienced great tactile hydraulic steering. Get in the Tesla and yes, you will be disappointed in the steering, but even more so disappointed in the BMW, because you know what they are capable of, and how their past cars were brilliant in that regard, and the fact that other cars in the class (Giulia, ATS, etc.) can figure out great steering feel, something that BMW was ONCE known for, that'll make you even more disappointed in BMW.

Just my opinion, but I'm sure many enthusiasts and current/prior owners here would hold newer BMW's to higher standards than perhaps other vehicles because of their history with them.

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

... So yes they should be equally held to that same high standard

Agreed, and they are. The areas where there have been issues have been pointed out ad nauseum, and as witnessed by recent tests, awards and data, have largely been addressed.

They offer a different driving experience and easily enough upside to outweigh the downsides.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

BMW is held at a different standard. Tesla doesn't have a long history of making the best all around sports cars with sharp and ample steering feel. The 3 series is held to a higher standard by the automotive press and enthusiasts because of its history. Having dead steering in a Tesla is fine, as they came out after hydraulic steering was removed in favor of EPS and it has become the norm in the automotive world, and as they were never known for great steering, they are known for mixing electric efficiency with hair raising thrills/performance, something of which is so unique to the market that it overshadows any downfalls it may have.

BMW on the other hand had made excellent steering a staple of its cars for decades, and thus without significant improvement in the past decade of numb steering in the 3er, while other cars like the ATS, Giulia, and others have leapfrogged the 3 series in terms of handling, and have proven that EPS can have great feel, the automotive press are going to criticize BMW, as they were once the pioneers of sports cars, but can't/purposefully won't design an EPS rack with feel.

Eh, what the car mags don't mention is that one gets accustomed to the numb eps after a week or two anyway. Unless you're someone who regularly tracks their 3 series, the eps steering is perfectly fine for the daily grind. You don't need to feel the hair on a gnat's ass through the steering column.

Also, contrary to car journalist opinion, other manufacturer's eps (including the much vaunted GM steering feel) still feel artificially weighted and lack tactile feedback. Eps isn't going any where. We just need to adjust and move on.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by Fuller

Eh, what the car mags don't mention is that one gets accustomed to the numb eps after a week or two anyway. Unless you're someone who regularly tracks their 3 series, the eps steering is perfectly fine for the daily grind. You don't need to feel the hair on a gnat's ass through the steering column.

Also, contrary to car journalist opinion, other manufacturer's eps (including the much vaunted GM steering feel) still feel artificially weighted and lack tactile feedback. Eps isn't going any where. We just need to adjust and move on.

The heavy steering in my E90 got old in day to day driving. Great for autobahn speeds and jaunts around the track but otherwise a bit too much in city traffic gridlock.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

The heavy steering in my E90 got old in day to day driving. Great for autobahn speeds and jaunts around the track but otherwise a bit too much in city traffic gridlock.

Agreed, and this became more apparent to me after driving my '14 F30 335i for awhile. I jumped into my exes '11 128i M-Sport - a car that I really enjoyed in its day - and hated the heavy steering.

[530iDriver]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...-while-parked/

[Gdiddy23]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...-while-parked/

Just read this yesterday!

[530iDriver]

[ZCD1]

[sd_dracula]

I also almost went for the model 3 vs a 330e but when I got into the it just feels way too cheap for the ridiculous price they ask in Ireland, 70k+ euro for a decent spec and that is after incentives. I would expect that from a $35000 car sure.
Also the no speedo or HUD was the deciding factor.
I made the right choice in the end anyway, drove 3500km in my G20 330e and about 3000 of that in electric only anyway

[vladmury]

I am quite happy with my Model 3 Performance, drove about 4700km currently and no issues so far.

It does not feel so luxurious such as a Bmw or other German premium car but it drives well and it feels sporty as a Bmw E90.

There are particularly 2 things I do not like, first is the road noise which seems annoying at highway speeds and makes difficult conversation between driver and rear passengers. Second is the range in the winter is almost 50% lower than advertises EPA range.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by vladmury

I am quite happy with my Model 3 Performance, drove about 4700km currently and no issues so far.

It does not feel so luxurious such as a Bmw or other German premium car but it drives well and it feels sporty as a Bmw E90.

There are particularly 2 things I do not like, first is the road noise which seems annoying at highway speeds and makes difficult conversation between driver and rear passengers. Second is the range in the winter is almost 50% lower than advertises EPA range.

Thanks for the honest persepctive. Tesla has its flaws, as does every car, but they are still the electric car/company to beat. Their Model 3 is a very good car and is also a good value too in my opinion. Enjoy your car!

[oln08]

Wife was looking for a replacement of her 6 year old F30, and she was really set to go buy a model 3 ( she see them at every stop light here in southern cali).
Went and schedule a test drive at a local Tesla store.

As soon as she stepped inside, she laughed. I asked why and she said "What is this?", yea the interior is too simple for her. Now she got a fully loaded sport trim G20.
Drives great though, I probably wouldn't mind the car if she chose it.