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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions On the horns of a dilemma - M340i vs C43

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      06-30-2019, 08:54 AM   #1
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Question On the horns of a dilemma - M340i vs C43

TLDR; I give my impressions of M340i XDrive vs C43 AMG 4MATIC, and would love to hear your thoughts!

Let's start by me mentioning that I've been a lifelong BMW fan, and considered Mercedes to only really be for old people. I've had an E46, have an E90, and my dream car is still an E39 M5. So for my next act, the M340xi would practically be a shoe-in.

I did the MTown Tour yesterday, very brief summary:

M5 Competition - Terrifyingly fast and also felt very heavy.
X3 M Competition - Great noise, something felt off about the seats.
M2 Competition - OMG I WANT THIS... but not for a daily driver!
M340xi - Goldilocks!

Then I thought to myself, "well, why don't I go for a test drive in the closest competitor to M340xi" and hit my local Benz dealer and tried out the C43 AMG.

And that just made life much more complicated! If I called the M340xi Goldilocks compared to her more athletic family, I would liken the C43 to be Goldilocks in a track suit.

So, here's my impressions and curious if anyone else has done this comparison:

Exterior:





M340xi is more athletic and sharper edged. While I am not a huge fan of the new grille, I'm actually OK with the tails. The unfinished Hofmeister kink is weird but not a deal breaker.

This year, C43 just got the prior C63's two bar grille and I must say it makes it MUCH sportier looking from the front than the old diamond point grille. The C43 will blend more in traffic due to the shape, but this is not a downside for me. I've always preferred "sleeper" to a more in your face look (hence, E39 M5).

Interior:




I love the Teutonic simplicity of the M340xi. It really harkens back to BMW's of old in shape, reminding me of the simple horizontal layout of the E30. It's coupled obviously with the modern touches but the overall effect works well. The G20, despite being actually bigger than the E90 on the inside doesn't actually feel larger because of this design. It maintains that cockpit feel and that is excellent. Seats are very good as well, with good bolsters and great adjustability.

The C43's interior immediately felt to me like it belonged in the next class of car. The combination of leather, metal, wood and glass raises it to an amazing level for the same price point. If passenger comfort is more important than driving pleasure, the C43 will edge out the M340i on that basis, while maintaining softer driving settings. More on that later...

Technology







I was interested in driving the car, so I don't have more than a brief impression of iDrive vs. COMAND. But I can talk about the displays.

Neither car this time round had a heads-up display. This meant that I had a traditional rev counter in the C43 and the backwards rev counter in the M340i. Both were driven with full manual shifting and the last time I tried a G20 330xi I had the heads up with the tach so never had to experience the backward rev counter.

I was worried this would be the worst part. It's not. It's nothing. It didn't bother me at all and I barely noticed it. What I did notice was that I never once glanced at the MTown route map in front of me in the cluster, I always glanced to the side to iDrive itself. That space feels almost wasted the way it currently is.

iDrive 7 I didn't play with much, but I love how much smaller the controller for iDrive is compared to the massively overdone arrangement for COMAND in the C43. I also feel it remains much more intuitive to feel through.

COMAND feels a half step behind on performance and cascading menus in the UI are confusing. The graphics are as pretty though! Clear advantage to BMW here. However the next Mercedes system, MBUX, seems like it will fix a number of these issues and it will be interesting to see what happens then. Also felt that the COMAND screen was just a bit too small compared to the beautiful large display in the M340i.

Which brings us to why we are here...

Driving!
The M340i has a perfect blend of sportiness and comfort, with much more feel than the F30 and not as much as the E90. I drove the M340i in Sport on not the most challenging roads and on a much shorter drive. In that brief time, I noted the following:

1. xDrive trumps RWD. My first BMW was an E46 330xi and while I dearly loved that car, it never let you forget it was AWD. My current car is a 2011 E90 6MT RWD. I absolutely love the feel of RWD, the car just speaks to you better. This was the first time driving an xDrive where I couldn't feel the AWD. It seems like they filtered out the interference with the front steering feel thanks to it being a fully electric rack. I also managed to kick the tail out taking a corner in a first This fact, plus the near 400 horsepower, plus my sad reality of Cleveland makes it not so bitter a pill to swallow for the next car.

2. The ZF-8 speed is only a bit slower than the DCT. I loved the shifts in the M2 Competition, it was my cherry for driving DCT. But I was amazed at just how close the shifts in sport were on the M340i. I really didn't feel I was losing all that much over my 6MT because the speed of the shifts compensated for the slower more deliberate (also fun) shifts in my car.

3. Weight penalty. Boring math ahead. My E90 is approximately 3600 lbs, and the M340xi is 3968. That makes it 368 lbs, or two slight larger than average adults heavier. I was very concerned that this would make the car, now grown in size to an E39 5-series, feel ponderous. I had a taste of what weight feels like dragging down the drive when I drove the M5 Competition, which weighs in at 4370, or 770 lbs more than my car!! I am very happy to report, I felt no difference in the nimbleness of the M340xi to my 335i! I suspect part of it is due to the increased chassis rigidity and the rest is due to the improvements in responsiveness with the B58 vs the N55. For comparison, the C43 is a touch lighter than the M340xi, at 3825.

3. Suspension modes. While I personally prefer my passive M-Sport suspension for "purity", the adaptive has gotten very good. The changes to feel have also sharpened up comfort mode a bit. I still drove in Sport mode mostly. The BMW struck a more consistent feel across all modes than the Mercedes. And that brings us to her rival.

Driving Impression vs. the C43.

Now, I got to drive the C43 on roads I am familiar with and challenge the car dynamically quite a bit more. I will absolutely take an M340xi to this "home course" at some point. Because of this, I am not going to focus on capability as much as I am going to focus on feel.

1. C43 FEELS faster. I'm emphasizing this first. In actual point of fact C43 is NOT faster, but it absolutely feels faster. Seems like Mercedes has purposely engineered in less refinement, more rawness, to distinguish between the AMG-lite and her common Mercedes brethren. This means:

- Shifts are rougher, with hesitancy and holding of gears longer.
- The gearbox feels like it is shorter geared, to make you hit 5000 RPM more often while still going sane speeds.
- The crackles and pops in the exhaust have a volume setting (comfort and loud modes)
- The entire cluster flashes RED as a shift light!

It also means:

- The divide between modes on the Benz is higher than on the BMW. Benz does Comfort, Sports, and Sports+ as BMW does, but Benz in Comfort is TOO soft, almost feels wallowy. Sports is harder edged than our Sport, and Mercedes' Sports+ is harder edged again than our Sport Plus.
- The ZF-8 speed is smoother overall and that matters when you are NOT hammering it.

I felt more bumps in the C43 but neither car had crashy suspension over bumps like a classic E46 M3, or for that matter a modern passive M2 Competition!

C43 also has an excellent steering wheel rivaling our MSport wheels with a caveat... metal paddles get REALLY hot in summer! Both cars had great steering feel for modern electric racks. Weighting is excellent in both, in Sport mode.

BMW has not figured out the modern dynamic digital cluster like her rivals have. The Benz cluster was much more engaging, had much more customizability and remained legible and easy to read at speed. Hopefully BMW realizes that a traditional analog cluster graphic should always be an option. The AMG cluster setting puts tachometer front and center with speed and gearing inset, so you have very easy access to the most pertinent data.

Cost
When priced out online using a combination of options and packages, the BMW will always win over the C43. When priced out using packages only, the delta slips to just about a grand. Given negotiation, either car could win from that perspective.

Conclusion?
While I always had a soft spot for the W211 E55 AMG wagon because of its sheer insanity, in general I always saw Mercedes as a car for the 70-plus crowd. BMWs egg you on, "go faster, turn harder, c'mon what are you waiting for?" Mercedes felt like they would do anything you asked but wouldn't push you.

This one though. This one pushes you. HARD. Constantly whispering, "faster, more, more, more". It feels less sanitized, less built to appeal to the driving masses and more to the actual driver.

I feel torn because it seems Mercedes' is encroaching upon the classic ultimate driving machine philosophy and yet I know just how good BMW's engineers are at fulfilling that at the core of the new G-series cars, it just seems you have to dig for it more. I think I need more seat time in the M340xi on better roads. But right now, I am finding the C43 a formidable rival.

What are your thoughts?
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      06-30-2019, 10:42 AM   #2
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Very well written and I agree with you on basically everything. I like both of these cars a lot and they are both enormous winners in my book. I like their looks, comfort/interior, handling, performance... you really can't go wrong with either for a daily driver.

I chose M340xi because it is more familiar to me (never owned a Benz), the suspension felt more "just right" keeping it liveable and comfortable in all settings yet plenty sporting, and price is less with some nice steep discounts available. I did not chose the C43 because as you said it was too mellow in comfort and to me too sharp edged in other settings, plus BMWs just generally fit me more.

So there you have it! If you're having a difficult time deciding, go with your gut because you'll do well with either car. MBUX will be a big deal on the C43 when that is available so I would try to wait for that but I'm not sure when it is officially happening.
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      06-30-2019, 11:19 AM   #3
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Great, detailed review, and nice photography. From the review, it seems like the m340i might be the more practical choice but the c43 tugs at your heart a little more. Then again, you did have the opportunity to push the c43 a little harder. Id say test drive each again. If you can, try them both in everyday situations, as well as some twisty back roads. Then ask if you could live with either on a daily basis. Then go with your heart. If you go with your heart you'll feel more confident with your decision. If you go solely with practicality or bias (as a car enthusiast) you'll second guess yourself as long as you have the car. As a car enthusiast you'll usually know intuitively when you have the right fit (after driving the car).
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      06-30-2019, 02:37 PM   #4
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Nice review.
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      06-30-2019, 03:25 PM   #5
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M340 should lease better
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      06-30-2019, 03:48 PM   #6
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The C43 was STIFF. If the C43 is stiffer than a M340i, then we have a huge problem.
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      07-01-2019, 07:54 AM   #7
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Other than subjective 'driving' feeling, here are a few items to consider whether they are on your radar..

M340 (G20) Debut 2019
-382 hp @ 5000 to 6500 rpm
-369 lb-ft @ 1600 - 4500 rpm
-M-Sport Steering wheel is heated
-Comes with Apple Car Play, Android Auto in the works..
-I drive 7 with touch screen, voice, and gesture control
-Harmon Kardon Sound
-The moonroof/sunroof, when fully opened it slides under the roof of the vehicle (Between the roof and head liner) when driving, however some glass does pertrude inside. Traditional design as in F30
-M-performance parts port installed

C43 (W205) Debut 2014
-385 hp @ 6,100 rpm
-384 lb-ft @ 2,500-5,000 rpm
-Might want to double check, don't know from the Mercedes website whether the AMG steering wheel is heated, depending on the package you select.
-Comes with Apple Car Play and Android Auto
-Uses Mercedes BMUX, touch screen, voice control
-Burmester Surround Sound System
-The larger sunroof is panoramic, opens further back but the roof slides over the existing roof of the vehicle as when it is opened overhangs the rear of the car.
-AMG part accessories already pre-installed from factory
-if you go for Carbon Fibre trim, it would just be on the main centre console compared to other 'wood trims' for the Mercedes which have centre console and trim on the side doors.

Last edited by WXdrivefun; 07-01-2019 at 08:00 AM..
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      07-01-2019, 10:23 AM   #8
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I'm not saying this because I'm a serious BMW fan, but I think that the C Class is already showing it's age
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      07-01-2019, 11:34 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StickForLife View Post
TLDR; I give my impressions of M340i XDrive vs C43 AMG 4MATIC, and would love to hear your thoughts!

Let's start by me mentioning that I've been a lifelong BMW fan, and considered Mercedes to only really be for old people. I've had an E46, have an E90, and my dream car is still an E39 M5. So for my next act, the M340xi would practically be a shoe-in.

I did the MTown Tour yesterday, very brief summary:

M5 Competition - Terrifyingly fast and also felt very heavy.
X3 M Competition - Great noise, something felt off about the seats.
M2 Competition - OMG I WANT THIS... but not for a daily driver!
M340xi - Goldilocks!

Then I thought to myself, "well, why don't I go for a test drive in the closest competitor to M340xi" and hit my local Benz dealer and tried out the C43 AMG.

And that just made life much more complicated! If I called the M340xi Goldilocks compared to her more athletic family, I would liken the C43 to be Goldilocks in a track suit.

So, here's my impressions and curious if anyone else has done this comparison:

Exterior:





M340xi is more athletic and sharper edged. While I am not a huge fan of the new grille, I'm actually OK with the tails. The unfinished Hofmeister kink is weird but not a deal breaker.

This year, C43 just got the prior C63's two bar grille and I must say it makes it MUCH sportier looking from the front than the old diamond point grille. The C43 will blend more in traffic due to the shape, but this is not a downside for me. I've always preferred "sleeper" to a more in your face look (hence, E39 M5).

Interior:




I love the Teutonic simplicity of the M340xi. It really harkens back to BMW's of old in shape, reminding me of the simple horizontal layout of the E30. It's coupled obviously with the modern touches but the overall effect works well. The G20, despite being actually bigger than the E90 on the inside doesn't actually feel larger because of this design. It maintains that cockpit feel and that is excellent. Seats are very good as well, with good bolsters and great adjustability.

The C43's interior immediately felt to me like it belonged in the next class of car. The combination of leather, metal, wood and glass raises it to an amazing level for the same price point. If passenger comfort is more important than driving pleasure, the C43 will edge out the M340i on that basis, while maintaining softer driving settings. More on that later...

Technology







I was interested in driving the car, so I don't have more than a brief impression of iDrive vs. COMAND. But I can talk about the displays.

Neither car this time round had a heads-up display. This meant that I had a traditional rev counter in the C43 and the backwards rev counter in the M340i. Both were driven with full manual shifting and the last time I tried a G20 330xi I had the heads up with the tach so never had to experience the backward rev counter.

I was worried this would be the worst part. It's not. It's nothing. It didn't bother me at all and I barely noticed it. What I did notice was that I never once glanced at the MTown route map in front of me in the cluster, I always glanced to the side to iDrive itself. That space feels almost wasted the way it currently is.

iDrive 7 I didn't play with much, but I love how much smaller the controller for iDrive is compared to the massively overdone arrangement for COMAND in the C43. I also feel it remains much more intuitive to feel through.

COMAND feels a half step behind on performance and cascading menus in the UI are confusing. The graphics are as pretty though! Clear advantage to BMW here. However the next Mercedes system, MBUX, seems like it will fix a number of these issues and it will be interesting to see what happens then. Also felt that the COMAND screen was just a bit too small compared to the beautiful large display in the M340i.

Which brings us to why we are here...

Driving!
The M340i has a perfect blend of sportiness and comfort, with much more feel than the F30 and not as much as the E90. I drove the M340i in Sport on not the most challenging roads and on a much shorter drive. In that brief time, I noted the following:

1. xDrive trumps RWD. My first BMW was an E46 330xi and while I dearly loved that car, it never let you forget it was AWD. My current car is a 2011 E90 6MT RWD. I absolutely love the feel of RWD, the car just speaks to you better. This was the first time driving an xDrive where I couldn't feel the AWD. It seems like they filtered out the interference with the front steering feel thanks to it being a fully electric rack. I also managed to kick the tail out taking a corner in a first This fact, plus the near 400 horsepower, plus my sad reality of Cleveland makes it not so bitter a pill to swallow for the next car.

2. The ZF-8 speed is only a bit slower than the DCT. I loved the shifts in the M2 Competition, it was my cherry for driving DCT. But I was amazed at just how close the shifts in sport were on the M340i. I really didn't feel I was losing all that much over my 6MT because the speed of the shifts compensated for the slower more deliberate (also fun) shifts in my car.

3. Weight penalty. Boring math ahead. My E90 is approximately 3600 lbs, and the M340xi is 3968. That makes it 368 lbs, or two slight larger than average adults heavier. I was very concerned that this would make the car, now grown in size to an E39 5-series, feel ponderous. I had a taste of what weight feels like dragging down the drive when I drove the M5 Competition, which weighs in at 4370, or 770 lbs more than my car!! I am very happy to report, I felt no difference in the nimbleness of the M340xi to my 335i! I suspect part of it is due to the increased chassis rigidity and the rest is due to the improvements in responsiveness with the B58 vs the N55. For comparison, the C43 is a touch lighter than the M340xi, at 3825.

3. Suspension modes. While I personally prefer my passive M-Sport suspension for "purity", the adaptive has gotten very good. The changes to feel have also sharpened up comfort mode a bit. I still drove in Sport mode mostly. The BMW struck a more consistent feel across all modes than the Mercedes. And that brings us to her rival.

Driving Impression vs. the C43.

Now, I got to drive the C43 on roads I am familiar with and challenge the car dynamically quite a bit more. I will absolutely take an M340xi to this "home course" at some point. Because of this, I am not going to focus on capability as much as I am going to focus on feel.

1. C43 FEELS faster. I'm emphasizing this first. In actual point of fact C43 is NOT faster, but it absolutely feels faster. Seems like Mercedes has purposely engineered in less refinement, more rawness, to distinguish between the AMG-lite and her common Mercedes brethren. This means:

- Shifts are rougher, with hesitancy and holding of gears longer.
- The gearbox feels like it is shorter geared, to make you hit 5000 RPM more often while still going sane speeds.
- The crackles and pops in the exhaust have a volume setting (comfort and loud modes)
- The entire cluster flashes RED as a shift light!

It also means:

- The divide between modes on the Benz is higher than on the BMW. Benz does Comfort, Sports, and Sports+ as BMW does, but Benz in Comfort is TOO soft, almost feels wallowy. Sports is harder edged than our Sport, and Mercedes' Sports+ is harder edged again than our Sport Plus.
- The ZF-8 speed is smoother overall and that matters when you are NOT hammering it.

I felt more bumps in the C43 but neither car had crashy suspension over bumps like a classic E46 M3, or for that matter a modern passive M2 Competition!

C43 also has an excellent steering wheel rivaling our MSport wheels with a caveat... metal paddles get REALLY hot in summer! Both cars had great steering feel for modern electric racks. Weighting is excellent in both, in Sport mode.

BMW has not figured out the modern dynamic digital cluster like her rivals have. The Benz cluster was much more engaging, had much more customizability and remained legible and easy to read at speed. Hopefully BMW realizes that a traditional analog cluster graphic should always be an option. The AMG cluster setting puts tachometer front and center with speed and gearing inset, so you have very easy access to the most pertinent data.

Cost
When priced out online using a combination of options and packages, the BMW will always win over the C43. When priced out using packages only, the delta slips to just about a grand. Given negotiation, either car could win from that perspective.

Conclusion?
While I always had a soft spot for the W211 E55 AMG wagon because of its sheer insanity, in general I always saw Mercedes as a car for the 70-plus crowd. BMWs egg you on, "go faster, turn harder, c'mon what are you waiting for?" Mercedes felt like they would do anything you asked but wouldn't push you.

This one though. This one pushes you. HARD. Constantly whispering, "faster, more, more, more". It feels less sanitized, less built to appeal to the driving masses and more to the actual driver.

I feel torn because it seems Mercedes' is encroaching upon the classic ultimate driving machine philosophy and yet I know just how good BMW's engineers are at fulfilling that at the core of the new G-series cars, it just seems you have to dig for it more. I think I need more seat time in the M340xi on better roads. But right now, I am finding the C43 a formidable rival.

What are your thoughts?
I understand your dilemma. Interestingly 3 weeks ago my wife took delivery of a new C43 AMG and then 10 days later I purchased the M340. They are both being run in (<4500rpm) but I've driven them both 300-500 miles.

Her AMG was fully loaded and mine was mid-spec. She has the carbon fiber interior/exterior and night packages along with the AMG bucket seats and high quality black/white quilted leather interior which complement the iridium silver (has light blue tinge to it) whilst I went with Dravit and cognac interior.

I'd say the AMG has better interior, but the M340 has a good interior too (way better than my previous F30 and F31).

Let me say AMG wins for styling, interior, finish and sound (with AMG performance exhaust) - suspension has various settings, would say its stiffer than my passive M340 but it doesn't bounce/float/jiggle as much as the M340. Drove the AMG in the windy roads of NC mountains and it handled beautifully in sport/sport +.

M340 is quieter, better economy and has more rear head room (that AMG panoramic roof is great for light) but takes away the rear space. Both have got space for rear passengers, I am 6'2" and I can sit behind the drivers seat with no leg room problems.
AMG has more aggressive transmission, even more so on downshifts and coming to a stop, the ZF in Bmw is smoother but probably not as fast on the upshifts. Amazingly got 34 mpg and over 500 miles on my first tank of gas, but it was mostly on busy interstate.

I've had bluetooth/Apple car play problems which hasn't happened on AMG. Both the phone apps are very similar (probably written by same people). We use them to start and cool the cars.

I'd say the BMW is quieter, but seems to be some issue with one of the fittings near passenger side mirror causing noise at around 80, again, just perception that AMG has better build.

I think a lot of people will also compare the lease/financing costs of these cars. BMW currently quotes 58% residual for 3yr/15k whereas the AMG was 58% residual for 3yr/10k miles a year which makes a big difference.

I think they are both great cars, probably do not match the Audi S5 interior and build quality but these two are much faster. BMW does come with the "free" oil changes compared to the AMG.

I don't think you can go wrong in either purchase (the LCI for the 2019 model year really improved the AGM looks and the ride although still firm is now comfortable).
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      07-01-2019, 12:02 PM   #10
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thanks for the review. I just rec'd delivery on a m340i xdrive last week. I was coming off a lease on a MB c450. I was strongly considering going with a C43 but the dealers were rather stubborn and the deals were much worse than I had on the c450. I didn't see enough difference between the c450 and c43 to justify 4-5k more over the term of the lease. The BMW offered a better cockpit/instrument cluster- nav included, maintenance included. Better tech. The HK sound I felt was better than the Burmester. I haven't driven the BMW enough yet to offer an opinion on driving experience. I might give the MB a slight edge in exterior looks, but its a close call
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      07-01-2019, 12:19 PM   #11
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I've also had an E90 and driven the E46 many times. My dream car is also an E39.

I was hoping that the M340 would be a modern day E39, but without the manual transmission, it doesn't appeal to me. That said, I think it is the better overall car than the C43. The Mercedes is a great car, but its either too soft or too stiff and never quite gets the balance correct the way the M340 does. And while the interior of the C class does look nice, the 3 seems to have better materials and build quality even if it does look a bit bland or dated in comparison. I'd rather have something timeless like the BMW's interior than the Merc which won't age well.

I'm holding out to see what the M3 will be like. For me, its between that and an M2c. Everyone is different but to me the M2c is fine as a daily, the seats are extremely comfortable and while the ride is stiff, I dont find it to be harsh. My current daily is a G30 5 series, and as stiff as the M2c is, it still is comfortable for me. I'd probably code out the active sound design though as the engine sound playing through the speakers in daily driving is annoying
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      07-01-2019, 01:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WXdrivefun View Post
Other than subjective 'driving' feeling, here are a few items to consider whether they are on your radar..

M340 (G20) Debut 2019
-382 hp @ 5000 to 6500 rpm
-369 lb-ft @ 1600 - 4500 rpm
-M-Sport Steering wheel is heated
-Comes with Apple Car Play, Android Auto in the works..
-I drive 7 with touch screen, voice, and gesture control
-Harmon Kardon Sound
-The moonroof/sunroof, when fully opened it slides under the roof of the vehicle (Between the roof and head liner) when driving, however some glass does pertrude inside. Traditional design as in F30
-M-performance parts port installed

C43 (W205) Debut 2014
-385 hp @ 6,100 rpm
-384 lb-ft @ 2,500-5,000 rpm
-Might want to double check, don't know from the Mercedes website whether the AMG steering wheel is heated, depending on the package you select.
-Comes with Apple Car Play and Android Auto
-Uses Mercedes BMUX, touch screen, voice control
-Burmester Surround Sound System
-The larger sunroof is panoramic, opens further back but the roof slides over the existing roof of the vehicle as when it is opened overhangs the rear of the car.
-AMG part accessories already pre-installed from factory
-if you go for Carbon Fibre trim, it would just be on the main centre console compared to other 'wood trims' for the Mercedes which have centre console and trim on the side doors.
Actually I don't think it comes with the new MBUX. That was kind of a deal breaker for me.
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      07-01-2019, 01:34 PM   #13
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My decision between these two was pretty easy when we test drove both back to back. I wanted to like the C43 better since a good friend of mine is the GSM at the MB dealer and would have saved me a good bit over the M340. I liked the exterior of the C43 better but after driving it we both thought it was too stiff and louder inside the cabin compared to the M340. So in the end we picked the M340 and it wasn’t really close in my opinion.
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      07-01-2019, 03:49 PM   #14
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Oh wait, I'm lying. My Dad had a 2018 AMG GTC for about a year before he traded it for a Continental GTC (the Benz was too hard to get in and out of for him).

550hp/505tq...What a car it was!

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      07-01-2019, 04:34 PM   #15
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I'm in the same boat. Reading every topic on google related to both of these cars. I feel that mercs has a way stellar interior and looks it's cost. BMW is really nice but not jaw dropping. Best bet is driving the 2 back to back which I think I would do also.
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      07-01-2019, 04:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StickForLife View Post
.................................................. ..............................

What are your thoughts?

I had a similar dilemma last year.
I had a M235xi (which I had promised to my son) and wanted something more upscale (but with comparable performance and handling characteristics of the M235xi.
I tested the 430, Audi S5 and C43 AMG (as I'm in the sweet-spot of the MB demographic (e.g. over 70 yrs old)).
While styling and interiors were superior to my old 2er, not one came close to putting a smile on my face every-time I get behind the wheel as the M235.
In the end, I went with the M240xi - and there's not a day that I'm reminded that I made the right decision (for me).

If you like the size of the 3ers of yesteryear, you may want to test drive the 240. It may not be the M2 Competition, but it's a fun DD.
P.S. if you opt for the C43, don't forget that the next gen C Class comes out next year as MY2021.
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      07-01-2019, 04:59 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Forgot to mention the Merc has ventilated seats, and so do a bunch of competitors. It baffles me that BMW even in 2019 doesn't offer/make good ventilated seats for the 3 series, meanwhile, the Hyundai Elantra has had them for years for less than $25k!
Go on the MB forums, the ventilated seats is a big complaint because they are not cooled seats, only ventilated, and they work very poorly. Some of the owners complain about how an inexpensive Hyundai has better ventilated seats.

All cars in this class are missing a little something. MB doesn't have an option for heated rear seats which I wanted. Audi doesn't have brake hold but does have massage seats. BMW doesn't have power tilt steering, ventilated or cooled seats, and carbon fiber interior trim.
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      07-01-2019, 05:21 PM   #18
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I've got to say the M340 is us fun car and a great daily driver
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      07-01-2019, 11:24 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfile View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by StickForLife View Post
.................................................. ..............................

What are your thoughts?

I had a similar dilemma last year.
I had a M235xi (which I had promised to my son) and wanted something more upscale (but with comparable performance and handling characteristics of the M235xi.
I tested the 430, Audi S5 and C43 AMG (as I'm in the sweet-spot of the MB demographic (e.g. over 70 yrs old)).
While styling and interiors were superior to my old 2er, not one came close to putting a smile on my face every-time I get behind the wheel as the M235.
In the end, I went with the M240xi - and there's not a day that I'm reminded that I made the right decision (for me).

If you like the size of the 3ers of yesteryear, you may want to test drive in the 240. It may not be the M2 Competition, but it a fun DD.
P.S. if you opt for the C43, don't forget that the next gen C Class comes out next year as MY2021.
I had an M235xi that I loved and thought I would want to get back into a 2er with the M240xi. I drove the 240 back to back with M340i and I thought the G20 was leaps and bounds better in all areas. It made the F22 feel very dated including the handling which I always liked. Given G20 leases are pretty good and F22 are horrible, it was an easy decision to go with the new and higher priced model.
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      07-02-2019, 12:04 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StickForLife View Post
TLDR; I give my impressions of M340i XDrive vs C43 AMG 4MATIC, and would love to hear your thoughts!

Let's start by me mentioning that I've been a lifelong BMW fan, and considered Mercedes to only really be for old people. I've had an E46, have an E90, and my dream car is still an E39 M5. So for my next act, the M340xi would practically be a shoe-in.

I did the MTown Tour yesterday, very brief summary:

M5 Competition - Terrifyingly fast and also felt very heavy.
X3 M Competition - Great noise, something felt off about the seats.
M2 Competition - OMG I WANT THIS... but not for a daily driver!
M340xi - Goldilocks!

Then I thought to myself, "well, why don't I go for a test drive in the closest competitor to M340xi" and hit my local Benz dealer and tried out the C43 AMG.

And that just made life much more complicated! If I called the M340xi Goldilocks compared to her more athletic family, I would liken the C43 to be Goldilocks in a track suit.

So, here's my impressions and curious if anyone else has done this comparison:

Exterior:





M340xi is more athletic and sharper edged. While I am not a huge fan of the new grille, I'm actually OK with the tails. The unfinished Hofmeister kink is weird but not a deal breaker.

This year, C43 just got the prior C63's two bar grille and I must say it makes it MUCH sportier looking from the front than the old diamond point grille. The C43 will blend more in traffic due to the shape, but this is not a downside for me. I've always preferred "sleeper" to a more in your face look (hence, E39 M5).

Interior:




I love the Teutonic simplicity of the M340xi. It really harkens back to BMW's of old in shape, reminding me of the simple horizontal layout of the E30. It's coupled obviously with the modern touches but the overall effect works well. The G20, despite being actually bigger than the E90 on the inside doesn't actually feel larger because of this design. It maintains that cockpit feel and that is excellent. Seats are very good as well, with good bolsters and great adjustability.

The C43's interior immediately felt to me like it belonged in the next class of car. The combination of leather, metal, wood and glass raises it to an amazing level for the same price point. If passenger comfort is more important than driving pleasure, the C43 will edge out the M340i on that basis, while maintaining softer driving settings. More on that later...

Technology







I was interested in driving the car, so I don't have more than a brief impression of iDrive vs. COMAND. But I can talk about the displays.

Neither car this time round had a heads-up display. This meant that I had a traditional rev counter in the C43 and the backwards rev counter in the M340i. Both were driven with full manual shifting and the last time I tried a G20 330xi I had the heads up with the tach so never had to experience the backward rev counter.

I was worried this would be the worst part. It's not. It's nothing. It didn't bother me at all and I barely noticed it. What I did notice was that I never once glanced at the MTown route map in front of me in the cluster, I always glanced to the side to iDrive itself. That space feels almost wasted the way it currently is.

iDrive 7 I didn't play with much, but I love how much smaller the controller for iDrive is compared to the massively overdone arrangement for COMAND in the C43. I also feel it remains much more intuitive to feel through.

COMAND feels a half step behind on performance and cascading menus in the UI are confusing. The graphics are as pretty though! Clear advantage to BMW here. However the next Mercedes system, MBUX, seems like it will fix a number of these issues and it will be interesting to see what happens then. Also felt that the COMAND screen was just a bit too small compared to the beautiful large display in the M340i.

Which brings us to why we are here...

Driving!
The M340i has a perfect blend of sportiness and comfort, with much more feel than the F30 and not as much as the E90. I drove the M340i in Sport on not the most challenging roads and on a much shorter drive. In that brief time, I noted the following:

1. xDrive trumps RWD. My first BMW was an E46 330xi and while I dearly loved that car, it never let you forget it was AWD. My current car is a 2011 E90 6MT RWD. I absolutely love the feel of RWD, the car just speaks to you better. This was the first time driving an xDrive where I couldn't feel the AWD. It seems like they filtered out the interference with the front steering feel thanks to it being a fully electric rack. I also managed to kick the tail out taking a corner in a first This fact, plus the near 400 horsepower, plus my sad reality of Cleveland makes it not so bitter a pill to swallow for the next car.

2. The ZF-8 speed is only a bit slower than the DCT. I loved the shifts in the M2 Competition, it was my cherry for driving DCT. But I was amazed at just how close the shifts in sport were on the M340i. I really didn't feel I was losing all that much over my 6MT because the speed of the shifts compensated for the slower more deliberate (also fun) shifts in my car.

3. Weight penalty. Boring math ahead. My E90 is approximately 3600 lbs, and the M340xi is 3968. That makes it 368 lbs, or two slight larger than average adults heavier. I was very concerned that this would make the car, now grown in size to an E39 5-series, feel ponderous. I had a taste of what weight feels like dragging down the drive when I drove the M5 Competition, which weighs in at 4370, or 770 lbs more than my car!! I am very happy to report, I felt no difference in the nimbleness of the M340xi to my 335i! I suspect part of it is due to the increased chassis rigidity and the rest is due to the improvements in responsiveness with the B58 vs the N55. For comparison, the C43 is a touch lighter than the M340xi, at 3825.

3. Suspension modes. While I personally prefer my passive M-Sport suspension for "purity", the adaptive has gotten very good. The changes to feel have also sharpened up comfort mode a bit. I still drove in Sport mode mostly. The BMW struck a more consistent feel across all modes than the Mercedes. And that brings us to her rival.

Driving Impression vs. the C43.

Now, I got to drive the C43 on roads I am familiar with and challenge the car dynamically quite a bit more. I will absolutely take an M340xi to this "home course" at some point. Because of this, I am not going to focus on capability as much as I am going to focus on feel.

1. C43 FEELS faster. I'm emphasizing this first. In actual point of fact C43 is NOT faster, but it absolutely feels faster. Seems like Mercedes has purposely engineered in less refinement, more rawness, to distinguish between the AMG-lite and her common Mercedes brethren. This means:

- Shifts are rougher, with hesitancy and holding of gears longer.
- The gearbox feels like it is shorter geared, to make you hit 5000 RPM more often while still going sane speeds.
- The crackles and pops in the exhaust have a volume setting (comfort and loud modes)
- The entire cluster flashes RED as a shift light!

It also means:

- The divide between modes on the Benz is higher than on the BMW. Benz does Comfort, Sports, and Sports+ as BMW does, but Benz in Comfort is TOO soft, almost feels wallowy. Sports is harder edged than our Sport, and Mercedes' Sports+ is harder edged again than our Sport Plus.
- The ZF-8 speed is smoother overall and that matters when you are NOT hammering it.

I felt more bumps in the C43 but neither car had crashy suspension over bumps like a classic E46 M3, or for that matter a modern passive M2 Competition!

C43 also has an excellent steering wheel rivaling our MSport wheels with a caveat... metal paddles get REALLY hot in summer! Both cars had great steering feel for modern electric racks. Weighting is excellent in both, in Sport mode.

BMW has not figured out the modern dynamic digital cluster like her rivals have. The Benz cluster was much more engaging, had much more customizability and remained legible and easy to read at speed. Hopefully BMW realizes that a traditional analog cluster graphic should always be an option. The AMG cluster setting puts tachometer front and center with speed and gearing inset, so you have very easy access to the most pertinent data.

Cost
When priced out online using a combination of options and packages, the BMW will always win over the C43. When priced out using packages only, the delta slips to just about a grand. Given negotiation, either car could win from that perspective.

Conclusion?
While I always had a soft spot for the W211 E55 AMG wagon because of its sheer insanity, in general I always saw Mercedes as a car for the 70-plus crowd. BMWs egg you on, "go faster, turn harder, c'mon what are you waiting for?" Mercedes felt like they would do anything you asked but wouldn't push you.

This one though. This one pushes you. HARD. Constantly whispering, "faster, more, more, more". It feels less sanitized, less built to appeal to the driving masses and more to the actual driver.

I feel torn because it seems Mercedes' is encroaching upon the classic ultimate driving machine philosophy and yet I know just how good BMW's engineers are at fulfilling that at the core of the new G-series cars, it just seems you have to dig for it more. I think I need more seat time in the M340xi on better roads. But right now, I am finding the C43 a formidable rival.

What are your thoughts?
3,968 lbs is heavier than my G30 540?!?
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      07-02-2019, 08:06 AM   #21
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I had an M235xi that I loved and thought I would want to get back into a 2er with the M240xi. I drove the 240 back to back with M340i and I thought the G20 was leaps and bounds better in all areas. It made the F22 feel very dated including the handling which I always liked. Given G20 leases are pretty good and F22 are horrible, it was an easy decision to go with the new and higher priced model.
Thanks for that. The grandkids are getting bigger and will soon (in the next year or 2) outgrow the rear seat legroom of the F23.
If the new gen 4er ragtop (G23) is as good as what you say the M340i is, then it will be a no-brainer for me as to what to replace the M240xi ragtop with.
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      07-02-2019, 08:20 PM   #22
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Finally going to a get a review/comparison of the M340i tomorrow. While its not a magazine like C/D or Motortrend, who somehow still haven't reviewed the vehicle, they are very good youtubers, and one of the hosts is a BMW fanboy and E46 owner so he should be very informative.

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