[simonhch]

I took my 2015 435 in for an extended service and got given a new 2020 330 as a loaner for a few days. I am always excited to drive the new models and see how they compare to the outgoing generations. It always serves as a bellwether as to my desire to ultimately upgrade to the new generation.

Obviously there is a big difference in terms of the power between the two cars, and you notice that off the bat. My 435xi m-sport, has coilovers on it, and full dinan front to back (stage 4, big turbo etc). I got given a sport line 330xi.

The interior is tight, and nicely appointed, yet it doesn't feel like a BMW in there, it feels more like a Lexus or another Japanese manufacturer. There is zero character in the car. Driving wise, the car is peppy in comfort mode, but when in sport mode the throttle is so sensitive and transmission so jerky at lower speeds, as to be virtually undriveable. I have my 435 in sport mode all the time and it is great, but I ended up putting the 330 in comfort virtually the entire time. Sport mode offered virtually nothing, it barely even seemed to even rev faster, just have a hair trigger of a throttle without any real power to back it up.

All in all, driving this car around most of today, I absolutely hate it. I cannot wait to give it back, and get back in a real BMW. If this is a sign of what the 4 series platform will be like, I will not be buying one. I've had an e46 330, and e92 335, and now an F32 435xi, and I've loved them all for different reasons. The F32 is the mostly beastly of the three, but I've also put a lot into it, and the Xdrive is really, really good. The e46 was my favourite to drive in terms of pure feel, it just lacked power, but handled so beautifully. The e92 was a huge step up in terms of power and there was a lot to like.

The G20 though.......it's the first BMW that I've driven that just left me cold. There's just nothing there that I like. I am really worried about the new 4 series platform. For one, if the huge grills are true, that is going to be one fugly car, and secondly, if it has the character - or lack thereof - of the G20; it's going to be a total dud.

What am I missing here? I didn't even find anything interesting in the new iDrive that was really a game changer. It's just looks a bit slicker. The way you can change the accent lighting colour reminded me of my gaming computer rig. It felt tacky. Maybe if I drove a 340 M-Sport I might feel some warmth to the platform, but right now I just think it's absolutely horrid. I also had the fright of my life when the car turned the steering wheel by its self after I tried to change lanes without indicating. Bad driving practices clearly, but there was no one around and I was not expecting that at all. Suffice to say that I switched that heinous function off. That has to be one for total muppets behind the wheel.

[coladin]

I think you are missing whatever you like in your current ride and you may have to find those qualities in another brand. You obviously are a BMW fan, as your pedigree of owning many in the past.

Thing is, there was never any 3 series that I would have liked until this one. Where I found old BMWs as exciting as drying paint, boring , dated interiors and awkward steering, this car has none of those qualities.

Then again, maybe I did not pay much attention to BMWs and did not appreciate what you have in the past. I guess for longtime BMW owners , sometimes change is difficult. Maybe you may find AMGs or Audi’s of today more similar to what you preferred in your current BMW. I know I was disenchanted with the AMG brand and made the switch

[Prissy]

Originally Posted by simonhch

I took my 2015 435 in for an extended service and got given a new 2020 330 as a loaner for a few days. I am always excited to drive the new models and see how they compare to the outgoing generations. It always serves as a bellwether as to my desire to ultimately upgrade to the new generation.

Obviously there is a big difference in terms of the power between the two cars, and you notice that off the bat. My 435xi m-sport, has coilovers on it, and full dinan front to back (stage 4, big turbo etc). I got given a sport line 330xi.

The interior is tight, and nicely appointed, yet it doesn't feel like a BMW in there, it feels more like a Lexus or another Japanese manufacturer. There is zero character in the car. Driving wise, the car is peppy in comfort mode, but when in sport mode the throttle is so sensitive and transmission so jerky at lower speeds, as to be virtually undriveable. I have my 435 in sport mode all the time and it is great, but I ended up putting the 330 in comfort virtually the entire time. Sport mode offered virtually nothing, it barely even seemed to even rev faster, just have a hair trigger of a throttle without any real power to back it up.

All in all, driving this car around most of today, I absolutely hate it. I cannot wait to give it back, and get back in a real BMW. If this is a sign of what the 4 series platform will be like, I will not be buying one. I've had an e46 330, and e92 335, and now an F32 435xi, and I've loved them all for different reasons. The F32 is the mostly beastly of the three, but I've also put a lot into it, and the Xdrive is really, really good. The e46 was my favourite to drive in terms of pure feel, it just lacked power, but handled so beautifully. The e92 was a huge step up in terms of power and there was a lot to like.

The G20 though.......it's the first BMW that I've driven that just left me cold. There's just nothing there that I like. I am really worried about the new 4 series platform. For one, if the huge grills are true, that is going to be one fugly car, and secondly, if it has the character - or lack thereof - of the G20; it's going to be a total dud.

What am I missing here? I didn't even find anything interesting in the new iDrive that was really a game changer. It's just looks a bit slicker. The way you can change the accent lighting colour reminded me of my gaming computer rig. It felt tacky. Maybe if I drove a 340 M-Sport I might feel some warmth to the platform, but right now I just think it's absolutely horrid. I also had the fright of my life when the car turned the steering wheel by its self after I tried to change lanes without indicating. Bad driving practices clearly, but there was no one around and I was not expecting that at all. Suffice to say that I switched that heinous function off. That has to be one for total muppets behind the wheel.

Didn't bother to read the whole post after reading a 330i Sport loaner lol. You are comparing 335 Msport and a 330 Sport. If you were comparing a 430 Sport and a 330 Sport than you will change your mind lol.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Prissy

Didn't bother to read the whole post after reading a 330i Sport loaner lol. You are comparing 335 Msport and a 330 Sport. If you were comparing a 430 Sport and a 330 Sport than you will change your mind lol.

Same here, the moment he mentioned he had a sport line model I knew it was gonna be all bad. If you want a "real" BMW 3/4 series, the closest you'll be able to get right now, is a M340i, or a 330i loaded to the gills. You won't get that in a sport-line loaner, which may be the reason after all it is a loaner (that and its cheaper than an M-sport).

OP, I wouldn't base the entire range of the new G2X 3/4 series, on a non-M-sport vehicle that is lacking any of the "sport" options/packages, trust me, if you drove a luxury line 430 before your 435, which I'm assuming is loaded with all the "sport" options, you would have had the same thoughts as you did with the loaner.

[Pauleebe]

I'm not sure why you are comparing a modded previous gen 435 vs. stock current gen 330. Better comparison would have been the M340.

Either way, glad you have the car you feel is best for you.

[Transfer]

In other news Lambo owner disappointed with Golf R test drive.

Pointless comparison. Drive the M340i and turn off the steering correction. Or just stick with your highly modified 4er.

[HighlandPete]

"Apples and oranges" comparisons, particularly high end to lower end, hardly ever impress. Never have through the generations.

Even in a series there are so many differences across models. Back in the E30 days, we had three different models in my company, a 318i, 320i and 323i, Guess which impressed and which didn't.

BTW, BMW dealer gave me a 2-series Active Tourer 218d loaner, was nothing like my 535i wagon. Strange... as it also had a BMW badge on the hood.

[SteveinArizona]

I agree with all the comments. I read the auto magazines and they often do comparison tests. It always seems ridiculous to me that they compare a $30K car with a $130K car (for example) and, lo and behold, the $130K car is better.

For some buyers, who are not price sensitive at all, then the only thing that matters is how it drives and handles and what it looks and feels like. For the rest of the car buying public (99.9%), one does need to compare apples to apples.

[Cranester1983]

Sounds like you’re looking for a reason to go elsewhere 🤣

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by Cranester1983

Sounds like you’re looking for a reason to go elsewhere 🤣

Which is perfectly fine. Get the car that fits your needs and budget.

[KoenG]

Thanks for sharing. I do not agree with most replies here, the new 330i should be on par with the (stock) 435i on driving experience.

Torque in standard 330i trim is the same and the transmission and engine should be a tiny bit more responsive. Also overall vehicle dynamics should be better with a slightly sharper turn in and a bit more neutral on the limit. I would assume that the mild power deficit is only sensible in the upper 2000 rpm of the scale and that the smarter transmission tries to compensate. Of course, power gap widens with your mods.

Nevertheless, a bit surprised about your clear negative judgement. I thought that the G20 was again a "real" bmw going back to the origins. Also ergonomics seems improved and overall connectivity is next gen.

Maybe consider a retry after a few months? Maybe a M340i like everybody suggests to get the power deficit out of the equation?

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by KoenG

Torque in standard 330i trim is the same and the transmission and engine should be a tiny bit more responsive. Also overall vehicle dynamics should be better with a slightly sharper turn in and a bit more neutral on the limit. I would assume that the mild power deficit is only sensible in the upper 2000 rpm of the scale and that the smarter transmission tries to compensate. Of course, power gap widens with your mods.

Torque on the 435i actually comes on slightly sooner than the 330i (1300rpm vs. 1550). And the 435i (stock) is quicker in literally every scenario (0-60; rolling start 5-60; top gear 30-50 etc). Keep in mind you're comparing a turbo 6 cylinder to a turbo 4 cylinder.

Also you're talking about a 435 with the m-sport package and coilovers vs. a bare bones 330i without the m sport package, I'm not sure how you can say the vehicle dynamics would be better. This is why everyone is (rightfully so) saying it's not a fair comparison.

[Jmatt07]

Yeah I dont agree with anything he said. I have a 2020 330i and absolutely love it. Just go drive one and make your own opinion

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by KoenG

Thanks for sharing. I do not agree with most replies here, the new 330i should be on par with the (stock) 435i on driving experience.

Torque in standard 330i trim is the same and the transmission and engine should be a tiny bit more responsive. Also overall vehicle dynamics should be better with a slightly sharper turn in and a bit more neutral on the limit. I would assume that the mild power deficit is only sensible in the upper 2000 rpm of the scale and that the smarter transmission tries to compensate. Of course, power gap widens with your mods.

Nevertheless, a bit surprised about your clear negative judgement. I thought that the G20 was again a "real" bmw going back to the origins. Also ergonomics seems improved and overall connectivity is next gen.

Maybe consider a retry after a few months? Maybe a M340i like everybody suggests to get the power deficit out of the equation?

I would say it depends on how the vehicle is optioned. In my personal opinion, to get a "true" BMW experience with most of their newer products, they require optioning most if not all of the sport options, as a "stock" 3er will not give the same experience. A sport-like G20 vs a M-Sport G20 equipped with packaged like the "Track Handling Package" can make a world of difference in driving dynamics and characteristics.

[simonhch]

I can appreciate the responses to my OP, but I hope everyone recognises that out of the gate I said I understand there was going to be a significant difference between my car and the much less equipped loaner. That's not the issue here.

I have had a couple of base models in the past before. Both my 330i and 335i were base models. The 335 was a sport line model. I knew what to expect going into this loaner. I wasn't expecting a car that handled as well as my modded 435, or was anywhere near as quick. That isn't the comparison I was making. I am sorry if that wasn't clear in my post, but I felt at the time of writing that I made it very clear.

I have had multiple loaners from BMW before. When I had my 2009 335, I received a 2014 328xi as a loaner for a week. Similar type scenario, but I instantly knew I really liked the F30 series platform. Yeah the power wasn't what I wanted, but I knew with a bigger engine I'd be happy. And the XI suspension is floaty, but that's easily fixed. But the car just felt good. It had a real BMW feel. I enjoyed it plenty that week I had it. It's what led me to buy a 435xi....hence getting the bigger engine, and coilovers to plant the ride better.

But driving the G20, I got none of those feelings about the new generation of car. I've been driving it for two days now, and I'll have it until the middle of next week, and there's next to nothing I like about it. It doesn't make me want to even explore the upgrade to a comparable model of the new generation. The F series felt like a huge leap forward in terms of the interior and drive train, over the E; but I don't see that in the G. I thought the shifting in sport mode was terrible, and the interior is pretty comparable. There are the new digital cluster arrangements, which is kind of a take it or leave it situation for me. There is something much more elegant about the analogue gauges in the F. And the iDrive didn't feel much better than the F either.

It's to be taken with a pinch of salt of course, and I don't mean to offend any G20 drivers. Cars can be relatively subjective purchases and likes. I am also not particularly interested in a 3 series period. And would only go for a 4, as I am more of a "sedan has two doors too many" type guy, than a "coupe has two doors too few" sorta chap. So I'll probably check the new 4 series when it finally emerges. But unless previous initial new generation experiences, which I have all had through base model loaners, there is nothing here yet to excite me at all.

I stand by my feeling that this is the worst BMW I have driven to date. I really wanted to like it, but just couldn't. I am also acutely aware - just to reiterate yet again - that a 330xi sport line is a very different vehicle to a 435xi M-sport with coilovers and a dinan stage 4. That wasn't really the point I was making, but thanks for pointing it out anyway.

[simonhch]

Originally Posted by Cranester1983

Sounds like you’re looking for a reason to go elsewhere 🤣

I'm really not. I love my current 2015 F32, which I have put a lot of time and money into. I plan to keep this car for the next 3 years or so. The natural replacement was going to be a new G series 440xi M-Sport. But I am less confident in that plan right now.

We'll see how the generation pans out.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by simonhch

We'll see how the generation pans out.

I believe you should really compare like for like. I personally see your comments as being more a subjective reflection than many see as the reality.

As an example of like for like. One UK forum member who has extensive experience with BMW, currently running an F83 M4 and a G20 330e, answers a question from another member about the new 330e, (Just interested in how the G20 is re: refinement and how it drives in comparison?), to quote:

Originally Posted by Tengocity

It's miles ahead. Biggest improvement I can remember from one generation of 3 series to another I can remember.

Road noise and overall refinement much better, ride comfort on adaptive suspension is excellent. First car I've had with runflats that I don't immediately wish I could change. And the handling is better.

The tech is much improved, with all the driver assistance working much more naturally.

The hybrid system is much more sophisticated and intelligent, with much better integration of the two power trains.

I couldn't go back to an F30 now!

That's a "like for like" comparison...

Tengo' has run (besides other generations of BMW), two different F3x models, an extensively modified F31 335d and an F30 330e.

[Cranester1983]

Originally Posted by simonhch

I'm really not. I love my current 2015 F32, which I have put a lot of time and money into. I plan to keep this car for the next 3 years or so. The natural replacement was going to be a new G series 440xi M-Sport. But I am less confident in that plan right now.

We'll see how the generation pans out.

Sorry I wasn’t meaning to come across as obtuse.

I love the idea of having a M340 for example - and know it will be a much more keen drive than the 330e I have on order - but for my mileage and tax rates it simply would be silly for me to do it. So I wouldn’t drive one in comparison because I’d be left feeling like I’d settled for second best - if that makes sense?

[alpinewhite3]

Not to sound argumentative bc this is all subjective but you enjoyed driving the F30 328xi loaner with that steering/suspension but felt nothing when driving the G20?

Is there something specific about the steering that you don't like? What about the handling with the new lift related dampers? What exactly don't you like? Does the car feel too big? Does it seem floaty to you?

I understand styling/interior/tech is all subjective but it's been pretty universal across the board from forum members/car mags/reviewers that the G20 is an improvement over the F30 in the handling/steering department.

I'm just curious b/c car and driver was severely disappointed in the 2015 435i chassis pulling a meager .87 on the skidpad (m sport model) plenty of body roll and of course an uncommunicative vague steering. A base model stock 330xi with 18 inch all season runflats is pulling a .89 on the skidpad.

[mzdial]

Originally Posted by simonhch

I can appreciate the responses to my OP, but I hope everyone recognises that out of the gate I said I understand there was going to be a significant difference between my car and the much less equipped loaner. That's not the issue here.

I have had a couple of base models in the past before. Both my 330i and 335i were base models. The 335 was a sport line model. I knew what to expect going into this loaner. I wasn't expecting a car that handled as well as my modded 435, or was anywhere near as quick. That isn't the comparison I was making. I am sorry if that wasn't clear in my post, but I felt at the time of writing that I made it very clear.

I have had multiple loaners from BMW before. When I had my 2009 335, I received a 2014 328xi as a loaner for a week. Similar type scenario, but I instantly knew I really liked the F30 series platform. Yeah the power wasn't what I wanted, but I knew with a bigger engine I'd be happy. And the XI suspension is floaty, but that's easily fixed. But the car just felt good. It had a real BMW feel. I enjoyed it plenty that week I had it. It's what led me to buy a 435xi....hence getting the bigger engine, and coilovers to plant the ride better.

But driving the G20, I got none of those feelings about the new generation of car. I've been driving it for two days now, and I'll have it until the middle of next week, and there's next to nothing I like about it. It doesn't make me want to even explore the upgrade to a comparable model of the new generation. The F series felt like a huge leap forward in terms of the interior and drive train, over the E; but I don't see that in the G. I thought the shifting in sport mode was terrible, and the interior is pretty comparable. There are the new digital cluster arrangements, which is kind of a take it or leave it situation for me. There is something much more elegant about the analogue gauges in the F. And the iDrive didn't feel much better than the F either.

It's to be taken with a pinch of salt of course, and I don't mean to offend any G20 drivers. Cars can be relatively subjective purchases and likes. I am also not particularly interested in a 3 series period. And would only go for a 4, as I am more of a "sedan has two doors too many" type guy, than a "coupe has two doors too few" sorta chap. So I'll probably check the new 4 series when it finally emerges. But unless previous initial new generation experiences, which I have all had through base model loaners, there is nothing here yet to excite me at all.

I stand by my feeling that this is the worst BMW I have driven to date. I really wanted to like it, but just couldn't. I am also acutely aware - just to reiterate yet again - that a 330xi sport line is a very different vehicle to a 435xi M-sport with coilovers and a dinan stage 4. That wasn't really the point I was making, but thanks for pointing it out anyway.

I agree with you. I've had my G20 330i Msport for about 7 months and I'm mostly just 'meh' about it. It's been in the shop for three weeks (total) for that period, so I've not been so hot over the first-year platform issues. ConnectedDrive hasn't worked two months out of those, and doesn't work at the moment (hasn't worked for a month now.)

I just drive in Comfort mode exclusively as well. There is no point of Sport. As you said, it drives awful in that mode. I have so many little issues with my car, that I'm pretty certain I'm done with the 3, after owning countless over the years, since the E36.

[cfm56d7b]

simonhch, I agree with your comments although your older F3x 435 is a "better BMW" than the new G20 330i. I also drove G20 330i loaner for 2 weeks. Ignoring the engine differences for a moment, I found the car to be sterile, soulless. G20 should have been a segment leader and instead became the poster child for "good is the enemy of great".

In my instance, as I was exiting the freeway ramp and began to turn and brake, the brake pressure began to change as if DSC decided to activate itself. The road was 100% dry. The car began to feel very unstable instead. Was happy to give the vehicle up.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

I would say it depends on how the vehicle is optioned. In my personal opinion, to get a "true" BMW experience with most of their newer products, they require optioning most if not all of the sport options, as a "stock" 3er will not give the same experience. A sport-like G20 vs a M-Sport G20 equipped with packaged like the "Track Handling Package" can make a world of difference in driving dynamics and characteristics.

That has been my experience over many years and generations of BMW. Even colours and trim can influence the feel good factor, or contribute to a mediocre assessment. We may have to work hard to be objective and think past those subjective conclusions.

As a side note, some of these demo and loaner cars can be running the wrong tire pressures. I've had loaners in the past, where I've needed to check and reset the pressures, due to suspect feelings from the chassis while driving home. Poor dynamics and some of the strange behaviour reported can be as simple as wrong pressures.