08-16-2018, 09:32 AM | #23 | |
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03-17-2019, 08:06 PM | #24 | |
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03-17-2019, 09:12 PM | #25 |
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Call me a brand snob but when wanting a luxury product I know where to shop.
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G83 M4CV, F80 M3 CS, E30 M3, Z8, other various BMW's Ferrari F8 Last edited by Frank_NJ; 03-18-2019 at 06:34 AM.. |
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03-18-2019, 06:52 AM | #26 | |
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03-18-2019, 09:19 AM | #27 |
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Some people realize that parts are parts, and any company that makes the decision and acquires the capability can produce comparable vehicles. As noted with one example above by BigSky702, Kia has picked up key engineering and design talent from BMW and Audi. It may take a product cycle or two to get there, but any suggestion that it never will simply ignores the practical realities of engineering and manufacturing capability in the global economy.
How the market evaluates the resale value is a totally different subject based on volume and, yes, imaginary snobbery. And, let's be honest, if our primary objective was to buy a "quality product", we'd all be in Lexus dealerships buying cars from a Kia/Hyundai competitor - Toyota.
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03-18-2019, 10:15 AM | #28 | |
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Leaving aside the fact that 100 years of German engineering tradition is not comparable to anything from Korea; if you're flooding the market with Rios, Sorentos and Optimas, and if your brand is associated with 'cheap to buy, cheap to run' cars, you can't charge BMW, Mercedes money from your upper class vehicles. (Which Kia don't) So you either have to cut cost, compromise to keep your margins intact, or keep the car at a niche, just as a prestige item for the brand and lose money from it which would prevent you from becoming a big player in the segment. The bottom line is, hiring a few senior engineers from a prestigious German company doesn't bring you to their level. There's brand positioning, history, traditions.
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03-18-2019, 10:44 AM | #29 | |
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How the market chooses to view it is, I agree, another and more difficult challenge. However, consider how Hyundai and Kia have closed the gap to Toyota/Honda in positioning and perception. The process can happen. It is a matter of corporate willingness, commitment, and budget. Lastly, there is a segment of the market for whom imagery and positioning don't register...they simply buy what they like, across income cohorts, somewhat iconoclastic in attitude. It would be very possible to find such buyers cross-shopping BMW and Kia if/when the products are comparable, as some suggest G70 may have achieved. Others, perhaps most, are free to be guided by their own and others' perceptions of the badge.
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03-18-2019, 11:02 AM | #30 | |
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03-18-2019, 11:14 AM | #31 |
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I think they are almost there. Toyota is still king as far as reliability perception, but Honda has been slipping. Having that long warranty does put people at ease.
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03-18-2019, 11:30 AM | #32 | ||
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https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/10/vi...-its-citizens/ The only constant is change, and preconceived notions may become quite fragile.
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03-18-2019, 12:03 PM | #33 |
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I was being facetious with the “M division VP” remark. No, poaching talent is not going to turn the ship around immediately, but it doesn’t hurt in the short term either. If you like the G70, more power to you. It’s not pulling money out of my pocket.
Now I do have to admit, I am extremely impressed with how quickly Kia and Hyundai have vaulted over Infiniti! Infiniti turned out to be a real disappointment. Last edited by BigSky702; 03-18-2019 at 02:46 PM.. |
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03-18-2019, 04:49 PM | #34 | |
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03-18-2019, 06:04 PM | #35 |
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I agree, while it doesn't persuade me against any of the three germans, I would happily take one over an Infiniti, Acura, Lexus or Cadillac, even though its owned by Hyundai I think they are doing a good job with reinventing the brand, plus they are giving BMW (and other brands) more reasons to improve their vehicles/be more competitive.
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03-19-2019, 12:37 PM | #36 | |
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03-19-2019, 01:35 PM | #37 | |
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03-19-2019, 06:48 PM | #38 | ||
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I'd be happy to be wrong though. |
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03-22-2019, 11:24 AM | #39 |
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You're right, the 3.3T only comes with the 8 speed auto, which is generally considered to be the weakest aspect of the car.
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03-22-2019, 12:57 PM | #40 |
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I've never driven Hyundai's new 8 speed, but most reviews seem to indicate it's a modern transmission. Not up to par with the 8HP, but definitely no slouch, and with good automatic programming and torque converter lockup. It's not a sore point of the car, and really no other planetary automatic is as good as a ZF 8HP.
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03-22-2019, 05:24 PM | #41 | |
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03-22-2019, 06:27 PM | #42 | |
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03-22-2019, 07:12 PM | #43 | |
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The car is pricier, but after 5 years the Hyundia will be worth about $5k where as the BMW at least in the mid $35K.
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03-22-2019, 07:12 PM | #44 |
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I drove the G70 with the manual (RWD only) and also the 8 speed auto (both 4 cylinder). I really wanted to like the manual but it had long throwsa and was a bit notchy. The performance on the auto 4 cyl was just "meh".
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