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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions Drove the 330i with M Sport Pack and left unimpressed

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      02-18-2019, 04:47 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by openwheelracing View Post
BMW enthusiast community has mostly left, it's unfortunate and I wish the smart guys would come back and make these discussions better. We used to have fun with great discussions. Now too many apologists trying to defend their purchases, which I think deep down, they regret.
Really? Where did they go?
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      02-21-2019, 12:27 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Sherweeeny View Post
yeah? where have they left to exactly? Audi? Mercedes? i tested the S4 and C43 against the 340 solely because i wasnt particularly keen on buying a second 340 in a row but both those cars were more boring to drive than the 340 in sport plus so i bought another one - hence why im curious to know where the enthusiast community has gone, have they moved on to old cars? unless literally everyone single one of them drive an automatic C63 or QV now...
I hear you loud and clear, now.

I had a 2012 335i Msport and then a 2016 340i Msport.
Both were very nice and reliable.
Yes, I still felt like my former 2003 325i sport was a more fun to drive and more visceral automobile, but the F30 was/is a very competent sporty sedan. The F30, for me, lost the SPORT-sedan moniker.

The LCI 340i Msport really did give noticeable improvements, for those who can sense those subtleties. For me, the LCI improvements were very nice and appreciated.

So, the G20 was too far away for me as I wanted/needed a new car last August 2018. I had two F30's. BMW wanted me in another and new F30. I decided not to. I looked at the 2 series, but the dealer was being a non cooperative person, and BMW has driven the price point of an M240i too high for my taste. I had a 2009 135i MT and I lOVED it. The M240i is very nice, but at a price much too close to an M340i, what is BMW smoking and then trying to think?

So, I test drove some Audis, the S3, A4, and S4.
I kept my eyes open for BMW to announced release dates for the G20, and word came that the G20 would be released around or after the new year. The M340i even later.
SO, I decided on a 2018 S4 w/ZF AT.

Oh I wish I would have spent a LOT more time test driving on various roads and conditions than I did.
The new S4 is an easy second to nearly third place to the BMW F30 M340i, even with the S4s quattro.

The ZF AT in the S4 is Audi tuned to be nonsense. It's slow to react, lazy, fussy, and if often caught paining it's nails when I need a lower gear NOW! Couple that with a throttle where the word "response" will never come near, and the Audi has a drive line that is at least a generation or two behind with modern ZF ATs.

It's astounding how poorly Audi implemented the newly improved ZF 8AT that is in the last F30 3 series. The 3 series, and 2, have no drive live lash. My S4 has a LOT of it. The ZF in the S4 feels like an older torque converter AT with all of it's rubbery antics.

I wish I had opened my eyes even wider and just extended the lease on my 2016 M340i.
My S4 looks great. The interior design and execution is better than the F30. Everyone who rides in it comments on how "fancy" and nice it looks inside and out.
Sure, it looks very good.
However, I'd rather have the cute lady with the charming wit and beautiful smile over the self absorbed and very personality flawed glamour girl.

But, that's just me.

Hind sight. Yes, things look clearer once you've come up close and then started moving away.
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      02-21-2019, 12:45 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
I hear you loud and clear, now.

I had a 2012 335i Msport and then a 2016 340i Msport.
Both were very nice and reliable.
Yes, I still felt like my former 2003 325i sport was a more fun to drive and more visceral automobile, but the F30 was/is a very competent sporty sedan. The F30, for me, lost the SPORT-sedan moniker.

The LCI 340i Msport really did give noticeable improvements, for those who can sense those subtleties. For me, the LCI improvements were very nice and appreciated.

So, the G20 was too far away for me as I wanted/needed a new car last August 2018. I had two F30's. BMW wanted me in another and new F30. I decided not to. I looked at the 2 series, but the dealer was being a non cooperative person, and BMW has driven the price point of an M240i too high for my taste. I had a 2009 135i MT and I lOVED it. The M240i is very nice, but at a price much too close to an M340i, what is BMW smoking and then trying to think?

So, I test drove some Audis, the S3, A4, and S4.
I kept my eyes open for BMW to announced release dates for the G20, and word came that the G20 would be released around or after the new year. The M340i even later.
SO, I decided on a 2018 S4 w/ZF AT.

Oh I wish I would have spent a LOT more time test driving on various roads and conditions than I did.
The new S4 is an easy second to nearly third place to the BMW F30 M340i, even with the S4s quattro.

The ZF AT in the S4 is Audi tuned to be nonsense. It's slow to react, lazy, fussy, and if often caught paining it's nails when I need a lower gear NOW! Couple that with a throttle where the word "response" will never come near, and the Audi has a drive line that is at least a generation or two behind with modern ZF ATs.

It's astounding how poorly Audi implemented the newly improved ZF 8AT that is in the last F30 3 series. The 3 series, and 2, have no drive live lash. My S4 has a LOT of it. The ZF in the S4 feels like an older torque converter AT with all of it's rubbery antics.

I wish I had opened my eyes even wider and just extended the lease on my 2016 M340i.
My S4 looks great. The interior design and execution is better than the F30. Everyone who rides in it comments on how "fancy" and nice it looks inside and out.
Sure, it looks very good.
However, I'd rather have the cute lady with the charming wit and beautiful smile over the self absorbed and very personality flawed glamour girl.

But, that's just me.

Hind sight. Yes, things look clearer once you've come up close and then started moving away.
zf8 seems like such an afterthought for audi. I havent driven it, but there was a ton of excuses given as to why they used it on the s4 about it not handling the torque etc in the s4/rs5. then they release the a6 which has just as much torque as the s4 and it comes out with a dsg anyway.
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      02-21-2019, 01:18 PM   #26
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Yea I test drove the new S4 as well and didn't like how the new transmission behaves compared to my previous gen B8.5 S4. The new one from a stop, has some sort of transmission delay to get the car going.
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      02-21-2019, 02:27 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post

The ZF AT in the S4 is Audi tuned to be nonsense. It's slow to react, lazy, fussy, and if often caught paining it's nails when I need a lower gear NOW! Couple that with a throttle where the word "response" will never come near, and the Audi has a drive line that is at least a generation or two behind with modern ZF ATs.

It's astounding how poorly Audi implemented the newly improved ZF 8AT that is in the last F30 3 series. The 3 series, and 2, have no drive live lash. My S4 has a LOT of it. The ZF in the S4 feels like an older torque converter AT with all of it's rubbery antics.

I wish I had opened my eyes even wider and just extended the lease on my 2016 M340i.
My S4 looks great. The interior design and execution is better than the F30. Everyone who rides in it comments on how "fancy" and nice it looks inside and out.
Sure, it looks very good.
However, I'd rather have the cute lady with the charming wit and beautiful smile over the self absorbed and very personality flawed glamour girl.

But, that's just me.

Hind sight. Yes, things look clearer once you've come up close and then started moving away.
Do you have any problems/lag with the throttle, on the forums I've seen that some of their newer cars with the 3.0T are having that issue, a lot of the owners on the forum seem to miss the supercharged 3.0
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      02-21-2019, 04:39 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Do you have any problems/lag with the throttle, on the forums I've seen that some of their newer cars with the 3.0T are having that issue, a lot of the owners on the forum seem to miss the supercharged 3.0
Last s4 I drove was my buddy's v8 S4 manual. Now that was a beast before EU made them soft and limp
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      02-21-2019, 05:10 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Do you have any problems/lag with the throttle, on the forums I've seen that some of their newer cars with the 3.0T are having that issue, a lot of the owners on the forum seem to miss the supercharged 3.0
We had a 2016 A6 with 3.0T and dumped it for several quality reasons in 2018, including the "Lurchomatic" transmission which could not execute a smooth upshift at part thottle off the line through about 30mph by when it had jerked into 3rd or 4th. Dealer acknowledged and said others had the same complaint. No fix. Audi? Never again.
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      02-24-2019, 06:45 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
I hear you loud and clear, now.

I had a 2012 335i Msport and then a 2016 340i Msport.
Both were very nice and reliable.
Yes, I still felt like my former 2003 325i sport was a more fun to drive and more visceral automobile, but the F30 was/is a very competent sporty sedan. The F30, for me, lost the SPORT-sedan moniker.

The LCI 340i Msport really did give noticeable improvements, for those who can sense those subtleties. For me, the LCI improvements were very nice and appreciated.

So, the G20 was too far away for me as I wanted/needed a new car last August 2018. I had two F30's. BMW wanted me in another and new F30. I decided not to. I looked at the 2 series, but the dealer was being a non cooperative person, and BMW has driven the price point of an M240i too high for my taste. I had a 2009 135i MT and I lOVED it. The M240i is very nice, but at a price much too close to an M340i, what is BMW smoking and then trying to think?

So, I test drove some Audis, the S3, A4, and S4.
I kept my eyes open for BMW to announced release dates for the G20, and word came that the G20 would be released around or after the new year. The M340i even later.
SO, I decided on a 2018 S4 w/ZF AT.

Oh I wish I would have spent a LOT more time test driving on various roads and conditions than I did.
The new S4 is an easy second to nearly third place to the BMW F30 M340i, even with the S4s quattro.

The ZF AT in the S4 is Audi tuned to be nonsense. It's slow to react, lazy, fussy, and if often caught paining it's nails when I need a lower gear NOW! Couple that with a throttle where the word "response" will never come near, and the Audi has a drive line that is at least a generation or two behind with modern ZF ATs.

It's astounding how poorly Audi implemented the newly improved ZF 8AT that is in the last F30 3 series. The 3 series, and 2, have no drive live lash. My S4 has a LOT of it. The ZF in the S4 feels like an older torque converter AT with all of it's rubbery antics.

I wish I had opened my eyes even wider and just extended the lease on my 2016 M340i.
My S4 looks great. The interior design and execution is better than the F30. Everyone who rides in it comments on how "fancy" and nice it looks inside and out.
Sure, it looks very good.
However, I'd rather have the cute lady with the charming wit and beautiful smile over the self absorbed and very personality flawed glamour girl.

But, that's just me.

Hind sight. Yes, things look clearer once you've come up close and then started moving away.
its interesting to see how much calibration matters. I drove the Jag XE with the same box a few years back which proved BMW has really done a great job on it, but in saying that, almost all of BMWs current range is using that gearbox so its imperative they get it right, as opposed to say Audi who I believe only use it in their B9 S's
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      02-24-2019, 09:42 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherweeeny View Post
its interesting to see how much calibration matters. I drove the Jag XE with the same box a few years back which proved BMW has really done a great job on it, but in saying that, almost all of BMWs current range is using that gearbox so its imperative they get it right, as opposed to say Audi who I believe only use it in their B9 S's
it's in the rs cars a8 and and q8 and q7 and sq5. it's not quite as prevalent but still there.
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      03-13-2019, 06:28 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Do you have any problems/lag with the throttle, on the forums I've seen that some of their newer cars with the 3.0T are having that issue, a lot of the owners on the forum seem to miss the supercharged 3.0
Yes, the throttle is very lazy to respond, both off the line and while moving.

Combine the lazy throttle with the slow to respond AT and there is a distinct LACK of responsiveness from the whole drive train.
My 340i Msport may have been the older car, but it is still superior in overall driving dynamics to this NEW S4.

The one aspect where the S4 is superior is the adaptive damper suspension. It is better in the S4.
However, there is very little perceptible difference between normal mode and "dynamic" mode, whereas in the LCI 340i Msport BMW did a better job of enacting a noticeable difference.

Personally I still HATE "drive modes" for sport sedans.
NO, different programming for throttle, steering assist, trans shift, etc. is not transforming my car from a daily driving "economy" car to a weekend corner carver with a couple of pushes of a button.
Too many silly modes means big compromises made in every mode.

When I spec a "sport" model, then I want the full on SPORT spec and programming for all things related to being a "sport sedan".

The only area where I accept and value an adjustable mode is with adaptive dampers. But even there, I simply like to adjust overall damping, but NOT compromise the spring rates in order to try and accommodate a more compliant cruising ride. Unfortunately, that is what all of these silly "modes" force into these cars.

If the adaptive suspension had both adjustable spring pre-load, such as with true coil-overs, AND adjustable dampers, then it would be a viable enhancement for a SPORT sedan. However, that is not how these suspensions are designed.
Using adjustable dampers to create the impression of a more compliant cruising ride means that the "sport" mode for proper handling of weight transfer in twisty roads, is distinctly compromised, regardless of how much marketing tries to demand that it's not.
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      03-14-2019, 12:27 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G4BR13L View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by praxis218 View Post
How was the steering feedback?
I forgot to mention that car had the "Variable Sport Steering", I believe that this is included in the M Sport Pack. I could choose between "Comfort" and "Sport" mode, there was no "Sport+". The steering feedback felt more weir in "Comfort" mode and it was okay in "Sport" mode. The steering is a serious improvement compared to a F36 (4 series Gran Coupe) that I drove a couple of months ago (was a replacement car for a day) and I did notice that the car's chassis was stiffer.

In the G20 330i, even in "Sport" mode, the steering still feels very light and artificial. Just like with the F36 at times it feels as if the car is floating over the street. But I do think that a lot of customers will actually like the way the steering feels, at least my wife liked the light steering feel, she said that it felt 'calming' and 'smoothing'. This is the kind of feel I would expect in a 7 series that I would buy for the luxury and comfort but not in the sportier 3-serieus.

And again I might be seriously biased as I drive my F82 on daily basis (30.000 KM/year) and constantly in "Sport+" mode even for the steering so I don't think that I am in the correct position to give useful feedback about comparing the new 3-series with the outgoing model.

In combination with the Lane Departure warning, that vibrates the steering wheel and even jerks the steering wheel when driving over a white lane marker, it was weirder. I was driving along small lanes with a lot of crossing traffic so the steering wheel was constantly vibrating and I had to turn this off (after going to numerous menus and submenus). I felt like I was playing Forza Motorsport with a force feedback steering wheel.

The car I tested did not have the electronically controlled rear differential (in Belgium this is not included in the M Sport Pack) so I am unable to comment on this.

The 330i is a nice car and I am sure that the steering feel is major improvement compared to the outgoing model but the car just did not feel 'sporty' to me on any level.

The electronic power steering in the 3-series will imho never be as good as the hydraulic power steering or it will take a few generations. But the same can be said about the I4-engines. About the electronic power steering I just want to add that the engineers did a pretty damn good job in the F8x where the steering feel is superb on all modes (Comfort, Sport and Sport+).

I am now going to wait for test-driving the M340i because I want to test the G20 with the B58 3.0L inline-six engine but in all honestly my wife is going to happy with the 320i. The 330e is also an option and because of the low co2 and how Belgian taxes work the cost of owning a 330e is considerably lower than owning a 320i.
Have you driven the M2C. If yes, what do you think about the steering feel?
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      03-16-2019, 11:54 AM   #34
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I was impressed with the take off speed... but not impressed with handling .. hoping the m adaptive helps! Just ordered the M340i variant.
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