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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions Doug Demuro reviews 2019 330i G20

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      02-26-2019, 06:18 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by tetsuo111 View Post
Companies like Apple and (formerly) BMW seized market share and became segment leaders precisely because they supplied forward-thinking and innovative products that the mass market hadn't yet imagined. Consider Mac, iPod, iPhone. Consider the early M3s / M5s. Compared with their peers of the day, these products were revolutionary, re-defining the products in the segment, that anyone including non-enthusiasts, could plainly see.

Without being rude, your strategy is a prime reason for BMW becoming irrelevant for many enthusiasts. If I want a mass-market car, I would (in the past) buy a Chevy or Toyota. Today, if I were shopping for an appliance car, I would look first at the Japanese and Korean brands, followed by the Germans (except Porsche). Excitement? The most exciting cars on the planet today are built in Detroit. Two of the most exciting cars in the world are Chevys. Cadillac builds better BMWs than the current gang in Munich. Heck, Kia / Genesis builds better BMWs than Munich (thank you Albert Biermann!).

The sole drivers car in BMW's product portfolio, the 2-series, is available with a 6MT, despite BMWs best efforts to kill the stick. Why? Because many enthusiasts want to drive stick! Does Singer make 911s with slush boxes? No. Enthusiasts are also market shapers / influencers, hence performance imagery helps sell cars, even for ordinary drivers. BMW earned their reputation building great performance sedans, grew the business successfully, and now appears to be paralyzed by the same success, building boring appliance cars for the masses while also trying to cling to a performance reputation. Talk about cognitive dissonance!

Sorry, German cars are so soul-crushingly boring now.

My "appliance" car is a Jeep Grand Cherokee. We use it for winter mountain travel and summer adventures in the mountains. Since the Jeep's in for repair, I'm in an Audi Q7 loaner. Compared to the Jeep, the Audi reminds me of dad's Buicks and Oldsmobiles. It's just a big, fat, shiny, boat with too much tech to intuitively operate. In contrast, the Jeep is as off-road capable as ever, while maintaining reliable mechanicals and comfort, and (subjectively) much better styling, without appearing "over designed".

I swear I believe the only reason to drive German today is social signaling the neighbors. It isn't for fun or performance anymore, based on my firsthand experience.
It's not my strategy. BMW realized they need to wider to cater to a wider audience. The average Joe which makes up like 90 to 95 percent of people could care less about driving feel and how a car corners. These cars won't go anywhere near their limits.
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      02-26-2019, 06:20 PM   #90
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I just want to see a review of the M340. 😢
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      02-26-2019, 06:23 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Let's be honest. In our traffic congested US major cities, any car above 250-300HP is just wasted power and fuel consumption.

You would have to either track your 382HP M340i to truly appreciate its power or drive though the middle of Nevada in the loneliest road in the continental United States..
I agree, 300-350 hp in these sedan is more than enough for me in a DD. I'd easily get into trouble with more than that.
Yes, the power in cars now days is starting to get more and more ridiculous. Test drove the 2019 C43 and that will easily take you past the speed limit. I can only imagine that the M340 will be slightly faster.
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      02-26-2019, 06:36 PM   #92
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God he's so annoying
haha specially wearing two t-shirts
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      02-26-2019, 07:42 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by sed335i View Post
You know the great thing about YouTube? Nobody forces you to watch anything. If you aren't a fan of Doug's, there's an extremely simple solution: stop watching!
i am a fan that why i watch and bitch about it at the same time, i want it to get better. i don't get this line of thinking at all, even if you are not a fan, you can still talk trash about it no?[/QUOTE]

Well if that's the case, then sure, you get a pass. And yes, you can talk trash about something you're a fan of. I legit thought you didn't like the guy, yet still watched his videos. Because that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
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      02-26-2019, 09:03 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Anyone below the age of 35 would experience a rude awakening behind the wheel of an E30 or similar "iconic" BMW.
I'm I guess close to that age. I just turned 38.

My ex roomate in 2005 or so, I remember had an '92 e34 525i. I had just bought an 05 acura TSX which at the time was a pretty fun car to drive. Anyhow, I knew the E46 which was current at the time was pretty awesome, but that E34 was the first BMW I had regular seat time in. And I suppose it was actually a little smaller than the current G20 but was the same generation as the later e30s. It was a boat. It was on camry level of floaty (its entirely possible the suspension was ruined, and it was definitely not a sport model). I still remember the relatively super thin steering wheel, but I have no really fond memories of driving that car.
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      02-26-2019, 09:06 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
It's not my strategy. BMW realized they need to wider to cater to a wider audience. The average Joe which makes up like 90 to 95 percent of people could care less about driving feel and how a car corners. These cars won't go anywhere near their limits.
You both make legitimate points.

But the long-time enthusiast in me will continue to be disappointed at this fact that BMW is catering to those 90+% of customers really just want the image and tech associated with a BMW and not the driving characteristics that made the brand famous. With the continued rise of autonomous tech and global markets this will only become more commonplace. I personally know several people with Bimmers who should be driving Mercs or Audis due to their non-existent passion for driving, but who am I to dictate what people buy?

BMW obviously wants to push units and not be a more niche manufacturer like Porsche, so this is what we get. Aside from a couple cars like the M2 nothing really provides the visceral driving feedback we BMW loyalists have cherished over the years. In 3 years time when I'll be shopping, I will certainly take a hard look at other brands like Alfa Romeo or the CPO Porsche market.
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      02-26-2019, 09:33 PM   #96
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In the comments of the video, genius....

"BMW is the Ice Cube of car makers. A serious hardcore legend 30 years ago, now a soft, mass marketed suburban blob now"
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      02-26-2019, 09:46 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by DCG View Post
How's the fit and finish? How's the build quality? How's the Mexican Made 3 Series overall craftsmanship?

I'm very concerned about the future reliability of this iconic car. I have seen what has happened to the VW Mexican made Jetta's reliability, it's total crap. Only time will tell here in States and Canada.
I once owned one of those "Mexican Jetta's" Your comment was much too kind, beyond junk...
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      02-26-2019, 11:46 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MT4life View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
What exactly are they waking up to? I'm pretty sure they're 'woke' since you know, the manual doesn't sell.

It's crazy how many people on these forums have absolutely zero business sense even though they've somehow managed to afford a BMW.
Since when are we supposed to apply business acumen on an automotive enthusiast forum?
Take off your sales hat - you don't work there anymore

It doesn't make any "business sense" to drive any of these cars when a Corolla and Camry will get you to work in the same amount of time with AC and a radio
Your Corolla/Camry statement is a false equivalency; at best. It's like me saying "well dude, why bother driving then; you can just walk and save the environment".

Where he works has no basis on the discussion or the point he's trying to drive across....save the pot shots; it weakens your rebuttal and makes you sound pre-pubescent.
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      02-26-2019, 11:47 PM   #99
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At least there is a way to ensure German made. I wouldn't touch a Mexico made BMW in my lifetime.
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      02-27-2019, 12:21 AM   #100
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I miss my e46 328i and then 330i that I leased from 98 to 01and 01 to 03. Both manual with 190 and 225 hps if my memory serves me right. I never thought that either one lacked adequate power for DD and the handling and steering were sublime. Especially in the 328i as for the 330i BMW went to the variable assist steering and people were crying foul. Lol. I would pay good money for a well preserved example of either one.
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      02-27-2019, 02:19 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MT4life View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
You're entitled to your opinion. The B9 S5 was head and shoulders ahead of the F3x gen.

The point I was making was that manuals and wagons are a dying(dead?) breed. People have gravitated towards SUV's. 44% of total BMW sales last year was SUV's in the USA. Let that sink it.
Please read M3 forum, There will be G80 Manual Transmission M3 Pure
When time comes for me to change I'll have to step up to M3 6MT Pure unless BMW wakes up and makes G20 6MT 340
It seems that pure model will really be the poor model. Few will buy it as it will have less power and many features/options unavailable. In other words BMW is going to make us kill the manual so that the can argue no one wants manual. Car politics.
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      02-27-2019, 02:27 AM   #102
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I'm more saddened by the lack of an actual parking brake.
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      02-27-2019, 02:40 AM   #103
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It has to be made in Germany, if not then probably not buying it.

Part of me is paying extra for the badge, brand and where the car originates from. It has to have that "Made in Germany" stamp at this price point.

Building the car in Mexico is obviously saving BMW resources, thus in long term bringing the ops margin low and profit high.

It's a good thing for them!
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      02-27-2019, 04:34 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
It has to be made in Germany, if not then probably not buying it.

Part of me is paying extra for the badge, brand and where the car originates from. It has to have that "Made in Germany" stamp at this price point.

Building the car in Mexico is obviously saving BMW resources, thus in long term bringing the ops margin low and profit high.

It's a good thing for them!
My dealer just got an additional delivery of G20’s last week. So far everyone of them was built in Munich. Not sure the Mexico plant is up and running yet.
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      02-27-2019, 07:13 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MT4life View Post
Since when are we supposed to apply business acumen on an automotive enthusiast forum?
Take off your sales hat - you don't work there anymore

It doesn't make any "business sense" to drive any of these cars when a Corolla and Camry will get you to work in the same amount of time with AC and a radio
BMW is a business. Businesses need to make money. It's that simple. BMW has to keep shareholders are happy. What makes share holders happy? Money. We go full circle. It's not about what you drive, it's about fully thinking through what you're saying.
25% of all M3's sold in the US were manuals and that was going up against a much fancier DCT. They still limited it's use in the next generation. Many times companies make decisions on short term cost reductions and not what may be good for a brand long term. Don't assume the almighty accountants at BMW only make perfect decisions. It's a debatable point even if you disagree.
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      02-27-2019, 07:20 AM   #106
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My bad guys lol. I know everyone isn't a Doug fan, but I watch his reviews specifically for the "quirks and features" like I mentioned in my first post. I usually see things in his videos that others brush over. He definitely covered a few items I didn't know about regarding options and design details. Granted I haven't been keeping up as much with G20 development because I heard it isn't coming with a 6MT so I lost interest so some of you may have already known all of this, but it was still interesting to watch. Usually after the first 10 minutes or so I get what I need since I'm not as interested in his driving reactions or DougScore.

For an actual enthusiast's review, I'll wait for one from Chris Harris/Carfection/The Smoking Tire, etc

And here's to hoping the G82 will come in 6MT+RWD for my non business-savy self
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      02-27-2019, 08:27 AM   #107
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At least there is a way to ensure German made. I wouldn't touch a Mexico made BMW in my lifetime.
The same way I wouldn't get near a Tesla assembled under a circus tent...
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      02-27-2019, 08:48 AM   #108
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Doug's monotonous voice aside, I thought it was an interesting car review with a different perspective. I don't need 20 reviews on 1 car all telling me how fast the car goes from 0-60 or how it can drift around a track. Doug always shows some minute details that other reviewers ignore, just like savage review frequently shows a car's underbody.
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      02-27-2019, 08:49 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
It has to be made in Germany, if not then probably not buying it.

Part of me is paying extra for the badge, brand and where the car originates from. It has to have that "Made in Germany" stamp at this price point.

Building the car in Mexico is obviously saving BMW resources, thus in long term bringing the ops margin low and profit high.

It's a good thing for them!
Would you say the same thing about BMWs made in South Africa, Egypt, India, China, Thailand, Austria, Russia and other number of places where they have had a manufacturing presence for years/decades?
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      02-27-2019, 09:08 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by openwheelracing View Post
At least there is a way to ensure German made. I wouldn't touch a Mexico made BMW in my lifetime.
Yeah it's one thing to get a 20K Jetta. It's another thing with a 50K+ BMW.
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