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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions Frankfurt 2019: All New Alpina B3 Touring

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      09-12-2019, 03:25 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux View Post
It is based on the B58.

Alpina would not use an M engine, also because it has not been developed with the 8AT transmission.
But the S58 uses a ZF8 transmission?
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      09-12-2019, 06:13 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux View Post
It is based on the B58.

Alpina would not use an M engine, also because it has not been developed with the 8AT transmission.
But the S58 uses a ZF8 transmission?
Correct, hence S58 is rev limited as AT can't change at quite the high revs like the old DCT.

A few publications have said S58 now (they could be repeating each other of course). My feeling is that with the X3M and X4M in Market with the S58 plus the new M3 it could well be manufactured in larger quantities and be able to supply Alpina too. The ZF8 is so common too and shared with the base cars there's nothing special there to have to package or acquire either.

The B58 and S58 also share more than the S55 did with the N55: https://jalopnik.com/bmws-new-500-hp...sti-1832589427

Economies of scale and less special transmission makes it more "mass market"?
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      09-12-2019, 08:49 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I still have doubts this vehicle is powered by an S58. It would be nice to see something official from Alpina.
Here is a quote from the press release on Alpina's web site (attached):

Quote:
The most powerful BMW ALPINA B3 Touring of all time is driven by the latest generation straight-six 3.0 litre engine (S58) with Bi-Turbo charging. Every engine detail reflects the passionate development commitment of BMW and ALPINA engineers.
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File Type: pdf BMW_ALPINA_B3_Touring_Pressinfo_2019_09_EN.pdf (620.3 KB, 70 views)
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      09-12-2019, 09:34 AM   #70
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      09-13-2019, 04:30 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfurse View Post
Correct, hence S58 is rev limited as AT can't change at quite the high revs like the old DCT.

A few publications have said S58 now (they could be repeating each other of course). My feeling is that with the X3M and X4M in Market with the S58 plus the new M3 it could well be manufactured in larger quantities and be able to supply Alpina too. The ZF8 is so common too and shared with the base cars there's nothing special there to have to package or acquire either.

The B58 and S58 also share more than the S55 did with the N55: https://jalopnik.com/bmws-new-500-hp...sti-1832589427

Economies of scale and less special transmission makes it more "mass market"?
Indeed, another thing to note about this Alpina is max torque starts at 3k which is very S58 vs the B58 where it starts much lower down the rev range.
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      09-13-2019, 09:45 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qdtjant View Post
Here is a quote from the press release on Alpina's web site (attached):
Thanks for confirming that.

So this is indeed a new strategy for Alpina and BMW. As mfurse notes, this is likely enabled by the fact that the S58 is more similar to the B58 Series motor than has ever been the case in past generations. And also by the fact that M division has moved from the DCT to the ZF8 which of course suits the Alpina's character.

One has to wonder if Alpina will also switch to the S63 at some point for the B5 and above for similar reasons - it makes the Alpina N63M30 somewhat redundant.
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      09-15-2019, 12:45 AM   #73
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https://www.alpina-automobiles.com/e...echnical-data/

Looks like S58 with more torque than in the X3m competition. Same compression ratio as the S58. Same bore and stroke as S58 too. 84x90mm vs 82x94.6mm of the b58.
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      09-16-2019, 08:41 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1azycat View Post
https://www.alpina-automobiles.com/e...echnical-data/

Looks like S58 with more torque than in the X3m competition. Same compression ratio as the S58. Same bore and stroke as S58 too. 84x90mm vs 82x94.6mm of the b58.
Great point - I had forgotten that they changed the bore dimensions of the S58 from the B58 it is based upon. That's a first for a turbocharged M engine, BTW. The S55 and S63 share their bore/stroke with the N55/N63 respectively.

Good catch on the compression ratio, too.
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      09-16-2019, 03:39 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Great point - I had forgotten that they changed the bore dimensions of the S58 from the B58 it is based upon. That's a first for a turbocharged M engine, BTW. The S55 and S63 share their bore/stroke with the N55/N63 respectively.

Good catch on the compression ratio, too.
Better comparison is B57 v S58.
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