[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by Andy4114

It is a myth for those who never drove a classic BMW. That era produced ultimate driving machines. One could never complain of something they have no knowledge of.

I have driven classic BMWs, and I have knowledge of those. I appreciate them, because they brought us the ultimate driving machines of today. I even consider buying a 3.0 CSL at some point, since that's the most beautiful car of all times IMO, along with Ferrari California. But I'm sure it's total sh** to drive in comparison with a modern 330i. Admittedly, the experience would be amazing and unforgettable but not because the car is better, just because of the historical value of it.
But, I'm happy now, so I'm not clinging on to the nostalgia feel. And thankfully, I have financial means to buy newer BMWs. So I can see how newer models are better.
The best BMWs in history are on sale right now. M2CS, M3, M5CS are the best M cars ever made. They are the ultimate driving machines. BMWs of 2000s are unreliable gas guzzling canal boats in comparison. Also, when I had my E92 M3, the V8 C63 AMG, and the RS4 were genuine alternatives. C63 was crazy exciting, RS4 had amazing grip and comfort. They offered things BMW didn't. Now, they don't. BMW has the grip, excitement, comfort, and grip. They're more ahead of the competition then they ever did.

Originally Posted by Andy4114

M340i probably has the worst steering. Vague and delayed. I don’t expect hydraulic precision but come on.., this car is not a BMW.

Actually, it has good steering. I prefer it to my E92 M3 steering which was to quick at the center, which made it more jiggly. Here, where haters are loud, people hate these facts. But even Chris Harris agrees with this. According to him, E92 has the WORST steering, F80 was a little better, and G80 is the best.

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by PLF69

I still don't get it about the M340i complaints, it's not because they are not a great car that they don't sell in high numbers, it's because every American wants an SUV.

BMW actually makes a car with a more heavy, better feeling steering, it's called the M3 if that's what you want.

Well, when complaints come from people who don't own the car, we should always be sceptical. Especially if they're driving 10 year old BMWs.

[Andy4114]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Which do u consider as classic BMW?

That one which is not overweight, gives excellent road feedback through steering and chassis, feels connected to the road not insulated, and yes no fat steering wheel.

[Andy4114]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

Well, when complaints come from people who don't own the car, we should always be sceptical. Especially if they're driving 10 year old BMWs.

First of all its skeptical, not sceptical. Don’t lose your breath.

[Andy4114]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

I have driven classic BMWs, and I have knowledge of those. I appreciate them, because they brought us the ultimate driving machines of today. I even consider buying a 3.0 CSL at some point, since that's the most beautiful car of all times IMO, along with Ferrari California. But I'm sure it's total sh** to drive in comparison with a modern 330i.
But, I'm happy now, I'm not depressed, so I'm not clinging on to the nostalgia feel. And thankfully, I have financial means to buy newer BMWs. So I can see how newer models are better.
The best BMWs in history are on sale right now. M2CS, M3, M5CS are the best M cars ever made. They are the ultimate driving machines. BMWs of 2000s are unreliable gas guzzling canal boats in comparison. Also, when I had my E92 M3, the V8 C63 AMG, and the RS4 were genuine alternatives. C63 was crazy exciting, RS4 had amazing grip and comfort. They offered things BMW didn't. Now, they don't. BMW has the grip, excitement, comfort, and grip. They're more ahead of the competition then they ever did.



Actually, it has good steering. I prefer it to my E92 M3 steering which was to quick at the center, which made it more jiggly. Here, where haters are loud, people hate these facts. But even Chris Harris agrees with this. According to him, E92 has the WORST steering, F80 was a little better, and G80 is the best.

Bragging on means to buy a m340i is embarrassing actually.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Andy4114

That one which is not overweight, gives excellent road feedback through steering and chassis, feels connected to the road not insulated, and yes no fat steering wheel.

So which specific BMW models and years are you referring to?

[madpistol]

Originally Posted by Andy4114

That one which is not overweight, gives excellent road feedback through steering and chassis, feels connected to the road not insulated, and yes no fat steering wheel.

So, a BMW where you will probably die if you hit a tree? Because new BMWs (or any new car for that matter) will probably save you from the same crash.

That weight isn't there for no reason.

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by madpistol

So, a BMW where you will probably die if you hit a tree? Because new BMWs (or any new car for that matter) will probably save you from the same crash.

That weight isn't there for no reason.

On top of that, what's the downside of weight?
Less grip, more understeer, worst breaking.

New BMWs are heavier (Not heavier than competition), and they have more grip than older ones, less understeer, and better breaking.
They lose on the feel, but every single car do in comparison with older models, as they get more refined and safer over time. Ford Model T has probably the best road and chassis feel ever

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by madpistol

So, a BMW where you will probably die if you hit a tree? Because new BMWs (or any new car for that matter) will probably save you from the same crash.

That weight isn't there for no reason.

I still want to hear which models and years of BMWs that specific poster uses to form his views of ultimate driving machine.

[rad21]

:

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

On top of that, what's the downside of weight?
Less grip, more understeer, worst breaking.

New BMWs are heavier (Not heavier than competition), and they have more grip than older ones, less understeer, and better braking.
They lose on the feel, but every single car do in comparison with older models, as they get more refined and safer over time. Ford Model T has probably the best road and chassis feel ever

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

Ford Model T has probably the best road and chassis feel ever

This (2200 euros) likely has better feel than Model T.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tom-price.html

[EXE46]

So much BS being spewed now. Funny enough i remember in the E46fanatics days we use to clamor to buy used M3 wheels for our non M's lol. So it's not like fat steering wheels weren't desirable back then.

E46 still reigns supreme over the E90 so please stop. Enjoy your car as we do ours, it has evolved as all cars have and while doing so it got larger sure but is light years more capable than all non M E90 cars. Those are facts....Today G20 weight is inline with other's car's in this class as was the case in the classic era. It's not like the competition is churning out sport sedans with E46 weight specs today and suddenly BMW is the outlier.

[PLF69]

Also keep in mind rules for declared weight have changed and manufacturers are not allowed anymore to only give the weight of the least equipped exemple of a model. These rules were often manipulated in giving weight of model with manual seats, no audio or AC or other crazy stuff like that even though they never even sold a car specced like that..

[EXE46]

Indeed, plus these cars now have lots of safety tech which weren't available with the classics. Not to mention all the governmental regulations that auto companies now must comply with. I don't miss the E46 size at all. Never forgot one time at work I had to carry a female passenger in the back of my E46 and couldn't operate the clutch since I didn't want to crush her in the back seat. That car was not practical at all for rear passengers.

G20 size is just right, not too big or small and can fit adults in the back comfortably. Today if you want a throwback car to the classic era, there's only 2 doors or 2 seaters cars available ala Porsche Cayman, BRZ, FRS etc. While those are all great cars, I would not deem them practical for most people.

[madpistol]

Originally Posted by EXE46

Indeed, plus these cars now have lots of safety tech which weren't available with the classics. Not to mention all the governmental regulations that auto companies now must comply with. I don't miss the E46 size at all. Never forgot one time at work I had to carry a female passenger in the back of my E46 and couldn't operate the clutch since I didn't want to crush her in the back seat. That car was not practical at all for rear passengers.

G20 size is just right, not too big or small and can fit adults in the back comfortably. Today if you want a throwback car to the classic era, there's only 2 doors or 2 seaters cars available ala Porsche Cayman, BRZ, FRS etc. While those are all great cars, I would not deem them practical for most people.

I thought I would hate my M340i because it is considered a compact car. But I think it's an absolutely perfect size. Compared to my old "midsize" 2008 Nissan Altima, the M340i is lower, wider, slightly shorter, has 5 cu ft less passenger volume, 2 cu ft more trunk space, better grip, better balance, DOUBLE THE HORSEPOWER, and the cherry on top... the M340i gets better fuel economy in the real world; I NEVER got 30 MPG on my 2.5L Altima, but I can easily get 30+ MPG on my M340i.

Damn the freakin purists on this forum; the M340i is a spectacular car.

[Andy4114]

Originally Posted by madpistol

So, a BMW where you will probably die if you hit a tree? Because new BMWs (or any new car for that matter) will probably save you from the same crash.

That weight isn't there for no reason.

“Hit a tree” wow. Are there trees in the middle of highway and track nowadays? No wonder all cars getting heavier.

[Andy4114]

Originally Posted by EXE46

So much BS being spewed now. Funny enough i remember in the E46fanatics days we use to clamor to buy used M3 wheels for our non M's lol. So it's not like fat steering wheels weren't desirable back then.

E46 still reigns supreme over the E90 so please stop. Enjoy your car as we do ours, it has evolved as all cars have and while doing so it got larger sure but is light years more capable than all non M E90 cars. Those are facts....Today G20 weight is inline with other's car's in this class as was the case in the classic era. It's not like the competition is churning out sport sedans with E46 weight specs today and suddenly BMW is the outlier.

I was confirming what RBR mentioned in the video about steering being numb and vague. But the resistance is proving this car to be the best, is not even the point here.

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by madpistol

I thought I would hate my M340i because it is considered a compact car. But I think it's an absolutely perfect size. Compared to my old "midsize" 2008 Nissan Altima, the M340i is lower, wider, slightly shorter, has 5 cu ft less passenger volume, 2 cu ft more trunk space, better grip, better balance, DOUBLE THE HORSEPOWER, and the cherry on top... the M340i gets in the real world; I NEVER got 30 MPG on my 2.5L Altima, but I can easily get 30+ MPG on my M340i.

Damn the freakin purists on this forum; the M340i is a spectacular car.

Correct. People constantly bitch when they all drive amazing cars. Be it a 228GC, all the way to an M8. People just like to complain.

[Germanauto]

I see both sides of the argument but do think the G20 is trying to be all things to all people and as a result does not feel as engaging to drive as it should. Prior 3-series models were about driving engagement first and everything else came second. There's no way you're going to convince me that the M340 is more engaging to drive than en E92 M3, regardless of advancements in powertrain and chassis. With that being said, save for the Giulia, I can't think of a better sport sedan in the segment relative to modern competitors than the 3-series. And even then, the Giulia does not offer an engine in the segment of the M340. And their base 4 banger is not as refined as BMW's in the 330.

I think that unfortunately times have changed and people have changed too. The world is tech-dominated and BMW has millions of more potential customers in global markets. The guys who drove E46s/E90s back in the day are now in their 40s/50s and have stopped giving a shit about how raw the engaging a feels and how tactile the steering is. They want to drive in comfort mode 95% of the time and be coddled in luxury/tech features. I think some of the posters in this thread are those guys and they don't even realize it. BMW is just giving the people what they want.

For those of us who still value driving above all else there is the 2-series coupe line, M3, M4, and models from other brands like Porsche or Alfa Romeo.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I see both sides of the argument but do think the G20 is trying to be all things to all people and as a result does not feel as engaging to drive as it should. Prior 3-series models were about driving engagement first and everything else came second. There's no way you're going to convince me that the M340 is more engaging to drive than en E92 M3, regardless of advancements in powertrain and chassis. .

Balance of priorities has had to change to keep the customers, certainly evident here in the UK. The customer reviews and complaints about ride comfort and the feeling NVH needed improvements, turned many away from the brand.

The "engaging to drive" comment also has changed. Folks want the total package, something like steering has to be in the middle ground. Precise, but not heavy, not giving too much negative 'interference', the very thing that is part of the 'feel' so many seem to want, even in a daily driver.

From my perspective, the 'numbness' is not simply due to the EPS programming, but NVH in the suspension. EPS gets the criticism. We had EPS in some E9x models here in Europe, hardly got a mention. Many users didn't know, may have realised they had lighter steering.

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I think that unfortunately times have changed and people have changed too. The world is tech-dominated and BMW has millions of more potential customers in global markets.

We have changed, we see it even on here, where the lack of luxury, in the 3/4-series is often criticised. Even the road noise level is often too much, near silence is higher on the priority list. Tech sells cars, we have to live with it.

We have the Jaguar XE over here which was known to have a better driver's chassis (including the steering) than the F3x models of the period. Did many BMW users take on the Jaguar? No, mostly criticised for the poor infotainment system. Even driving enthusiasts would compromise on the "engaging to drive" attributes to get the best 'all-round' package.

[EXE46]

We are tired of hearing the same redundant diatribe about the G20 because there really is no substitute for anything that mimics driving feel of the classic 3'ers not even the Alfa. It's also comical because we are not newbies. I don't need anybody to tell me about classic 3'ers when I have owned 3 of them and kept one for a decade. We know these cars have evolved but it has not been all for the worse.


No point in living in the past, I enjoyed the classic BMW's when they were around and today I enjoy my G20 even more to be honest. The only thing I miss is a manual transmission and hydraulic steering. We are at a time where the majority don't even care about sport sedans anymore. These days it's Tesla or SUV's being embraced by the mass.

Thus people driving sport sedans are a minority and really should be applauded for resisting the urge to go against the norm/tradition. We already have some manufacturers eliminating sedans from their line-up. If we don't buy the ones currently available, eventually they'll all be killed off for a land filled with SUV's and EV's. That's what the outcry should be about since that is the real dilemma.

I have said it time and time again, BRZ/FRS is the answer to those who are looking for the classic driving vibe in a modern car. That's right, not even Porsche because they too have evolved from what they once were.

[r3dbimmer89]

I understand all the cries for wishing BMW went back to its "analogue" days but being back in a BMW after a hiatus..I must say...I am really impressed with the G20 chassis.

To me, it feels like a modern interpretation of that classic BMW "feel." Light years ahead of the F30 in every way including the F80. You get that modern interpretation in package that is far more comfortable, feels better built (i.e. cabin feels rock solid..so far no squeaks or rattles), and all the updated tech. I think BMW did a good with the G20 M340i. I should know since it's my fifth BMW