[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Your car looks good@150k miles.

BMW's ZF 8AT supposedly is sealed too, ZF says no fluid change if no high temperature usages(towing, track, sustained autobahn speed), and 150k km (or less) AT fluid change if needed.

My F30 328i was sold@80k miles and 8.5k years, the total out of pocket since brand new was $2k including 2 sets of RFTs. The costs were 6-7k miles OCIs, spark plugs, 2-yr brake fluids, 60k coolant change(BMWNA too cheap on their thermostat recall), all @dealers. Wiper blades, air filters, cabin filters are simple DIYs.

The second owner now is around 90k miles, and still on factory brakes. The cooling system has no leak, OFHG is good, VCG and many other expensive parts are covered for 15 years/150000 miles. That was great selling point(plus used car shortage) to get 42% of OTD 8.5 years ago.

Sounds like you drove it like a Toyota

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

Exactly, but nobody should be doing that unless they have first hand experience. I can't stand it on other forums as much as I can't stand it here.

It appears your first hand experience of thousands of miles on M340i and 60-70k total on various IS cars, so your mileages rarely require attention to reliability issues that may matter to others like OP(who keeps his BMWs for a long time).

And as mentioned previously, u expect OP to be aware of obvious difference of BMW vs. Lexus transmission, but OP already stated he is new to Lexus.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

Sounds like you drove it like a Toyota

Yes sir, guilty!

[premier3is]

This thread needs to be locked down, the fuck have these convo turned into lol

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by premier3is

This thread needs to be locked down, the fuck have these convo turned into lol

lol

[davefromfla]

Yes- complete nonsense way before this point.

[wtwo3]

It's when shit starts hitting the fan is when I come alive

[madpistol]

I know everyone has said their piece at this point, but... I want one. (start at 3:46 for actual driving)

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by madpistol

I know everyone has said their piece at this point, but... I want one.

I want this one. Unfortunately it is unavailable in US.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by madpistol

I know everyone has said their piece at this point, but... I want one. (start at 3:46 for actual driving)

Everytime I see videos like this all I can think of is..... I need to move out of the shitty midwest.

[madpistol]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Everytime I see videos like this all I can think of is..... I need to move out of the shitty midwest.

I live near the beach in Florida... nothing but straight roads. I miss the winding roads where I grew up.

[Giggler]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Sounds like you completely missed the point.

Nobody is claiming the IS500 is a better performer or even on par in any regard, performance, tech, interior, etc. The m340i is undoubtedly the better car.

Rather, it's the subjective feeling you get from a NA V8, which no turbocharged motor can replicate, no matter how good the mapping is.

I've owned an IS350, and have driven the ISF, RCF, GSF, LC500 - and they're absolute joys to drive. I don't own one because the feeling from the V8 isn't quite enough to overcome the other drawbacks for me. Now if that sort of thing doesn't appeal to you - so be it. But to call people who value the things they offer "misinformed and delusional" is incredibly ignorant.

The only person missing the point is you! I just told you I have ownership experience with the car and the engine and explained with FACTS why it’s a woefully inferior car. I don’t subscribe to “subjective feelings”… that’s just a person who can’t quantify their feelings into objective facts. You could just as easily do intake and exhaust mods to the G20 to elicit an emotional response but why should you care if that’s my cup of tea?

All the reviews have pretty much agreed the is500 is essentially the same as driving an is350 but with a punchy V8. So let me reiterate; when I drove my is350 to the dealership and tested the M340i for the first time, it was staggering to me how the M340i was just a way better car from almost every conceivable metric.

I should also add to the list, thus far after 2.5 years owning the G20, it’s been impeccably reliable (with a few well documented rattles that were self correctable). My ISF had problems with the drive shaft that Lexus could not/would not diagnose and repair. Had to go out of pocket with an independent mechanic to get it resolved. My IS350 had a long list of problems (way too many to list) and I feel bad for whoever eventually took ownership of that car thinking they bought a “reliable Lexus “.

Like I said, you have to be delusional to not understand the is500 isn’t worth buying. I literally mean that… your thought process is deluded because you haven’t thought it out clearly. Go find a used ‘11-‘12 ISF, guaranteed to be more enjoyable at the limit for half the price.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Giggler

You could just as easily do intake and exhaust mods to the G20 to elicit an emotional response but why should you care if that’s my cup of tea?

I don't care if that's your cup of tea. I'm not the one over here calling people delusional.



Anyway... since we're talking "facts", you mentioned something interesting about residuals. I did a little test - I took 12 2016 GSFs and 12 2016 M5s listed for sale around the country to see what the average asking price was. Now mind you, the GSF and the M5 were not direct competitors (regardless of what confusion Lexus caused with their naming convention, the GSF was competition to a loaded 550i). Since it's hard to compare a loaded car to a car with varying options, I decided to pair it up against the M5.

The 2016 GSF had an MSRP of 85,380. The 2016 M5 had an MSRP of $96,000. 12 cars from each listed with an average mileage of ~45k miles, what do you think the average resale is based on listing price?

GSF - 67%
M5 - 56%

I'm sorry you had issues with your Lexus. I didn't have any issues with either of mine - drove my IS350 up to 145k miles with barely anything more than routine maintenance, and similar story with my RX350. But at this point we're just spewing anecdotal experiences. Since you want to discuss facts - there's a reason Lexus routinely tops the charts on vehicle dependability. They use the same, reliable, engines year after year.

Like I said before, I'm not claiming the IS500 might be better than the m340i. In fact I said the m340i is objectively the better car. But a NA V8 has a certain charm to it that is just hard to replicate from a turbocharged 6. You may not buy it... but to call people who value different things delusional is just being ignorant.

[arentz07]

Well said, wtwo3. I owned my 2016 IS 300 AWD for 3.5 years and never had any issues. As in, I had zero. The only issues I had were related to wheels and tires (potholes, punctures, etc.), nothing to do with the drivetrain, electronics, etc. It also had one rattle in the steering column when the car was brand-new. Dealership fixed it, and I never had another rattle.

Contrast that to our 6-month-old 330i, which has under 5,000 miles on the clock, and the kick-to-open trunk has stopped working. Also, there are several rattles. To be honest, these are petty issues that don't ruin the car, but let's just say I would have been shocked to have these issues so early on in our ownership if BMWs didn't have a certain reputation.

The whole emotional response thing is tough to explain. I like driving our 330i a lot, and I feel it does give me some kind of fizz that the Lexus doesn't. However, it also feels very clinical in how it moves no matter what I ask it to do. It's accessible fun. Compare this to the Lexus, which really only wants to be driven a certain way. It's not happy being driven at 5/10ths or 6/10ths. It only feels good at 8 or 9/10ths. It lacks torque under 4000 RPM, and the transmission is pretty clunky unless I am either driving flat-out or big-toe speeds. The steering is also not as quick to respond as in the BMW. However, the Lexus sounds better and kind has a rewarding nature about it, where the harder I drive, the better it is. I, for one, like this aspect of it.

Now, the gas mileage and the infotainment... those are areas where the Lexus is objectively worse, let's be real. And it isn't any faster than the 330i either.

Basically, I can acknowledge that I am a broken car enthusiast and that it makes little practical sense to get the IS 350 other than for its reliability. But then, we are talking about a segment of cars where practical reasons shouldn't be at the top of the list anyway.

[madpistol]

I don't think anyone is arguing that the IS500 is going to be a better car than the M340i. The IS500 will have 3 things going for it.

1. An incredible NA V8
2. Reliability
3. Resale value.

If those things are more important than driving dynamics and the complete package that is the M340i, then the IS500 is a better car. Otherwise, as I'm sure this forum is quite biased on this, the M340i is most definitely the better car. Every time I drive my M340i, I'm shocked at how good it is. I'm sure it's not as engaging as old BMWs, but I'm also sure that it is much more comfortable, far more refined, and A LOT more powerful.

[arentz07]

Originally Posted by madpistol

I don't think anyone is arguing that the IS500 is going to be a better car than the M340i. The IS500 will have 3 things going for it.

1. An incredible NA V8
2. Reliability
3. Resale value.

If those things are more important than driving dynamics and the complete package that is the M340i, then the IS500 is a better car. Otherwise, as I'm sure this forum is quite biased on this, the M340i is most definitely the better car. Every time I drive my M340i, I'm shocked at how good it is. I'm sure it's not as engaging as old BMWs, but I'm also sure that it is much more comfortable, far more refined, and A LOT more powerful.

Absolutely. The M340i is objectively better in many ways, but I think even Lexus knows that there's no way it'd win in a drag race. People will buy it for the V-8 alone.

(My two cents - 4.3 seconds to 60 is still pretty quick... A huge upgrade over an IS 350, which is more like 5.7 seconds.)

What's funny is, even though I admit I am a Lexus fan, I don't know that I'll get one. I'm thinking maybe it's more worth it to swing for an actual "F" car - but then, we're talking another tier up in price... The BMW M-performance cars start to seem like a no-brainer in that case. While I like the idea of just dropping the V-8 into an IS chassis and making some light tweaks, the end result is something that looks almost identical to my IS 350. If it were more special and more different from the mid-range 350 model it'd justify its price a bit more.

Plus, my 350 has the same wheel and tire setup as the 500 but weighs less, so that means, in theory, it can handle a little better.

[TruthOne]

When they do finally come out with another ISF I bet they will start in the 75k range and go up to mid/high 80s and it will be slower than a G80

[drseuss19]

Originally Posted by madpistol

I don't think anyone is arguing that the IS500 is going to be a better car than the M340i. The IS500 will have 3 things going for it.

1. An incredible NA V8
2. Reliability
3. Resale value.

If those things are more important than driving dynamics and the complete package that is the M340i, then the IS500 is a better car. Otherwise, as I'm sure this forum is quite biased on this, the M340i is most definitely the better car. Every time I drive my M340i, I'm shocked at how good it is. I'm sure it's not as engaging as old BMWs, but I'm also sure that it is much more comfortable, far more refined, and A LOT more powerful.

M340is are incredibly reliable. The M340i also is faster and sounds better. So what benefit does the V8 actually give? It doesn’t sound mean and it isn’t faster than the car you’re comparing it to. So it simply being a V8 is somehow a bonus? Less performance with worse gas mileage seems like a loss.

Resale value is the only one you’re right on. That’s it.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by drseuss19

The M340i also sounds better.

You are very much in the minority.

[madpistol]

Originally Posted by drseuss19

M340is are incredibly reliable. The M340i also is faster and sounds better. So what benefit does the V8 actually give? It doesn’t sound mean and it isn’t faster than the car you’re comparing it to. So it simply being a V8 is somehow a bonus? Less performance with worse gas mileage seems like a loss.

Resale value is the only one you’re right on. That’s it.

My M340i has already been in the shop for a powertrain issue, so that blows up your "M340is are incredibly reliable" statement, and while I think that the B58 sounds amazing, it does not compare to the snarl of Lexus's high revving, NA V8.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by drseuss19

M340is are incredibly reliable. The M340i also is faster and sounds better. So what benefit does the V8 actually give? It doesn’t sound mean and it isn’t faster than the car you’re comparing it to. So it simply being a V8 is somehow a bonus? Less performance with worse gas mileage seems like a loss.

Resale value is the only one you’re right on. That’s it.

Can't agree with you there.

[Giggler]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I don't care if that's your cup of tea. I'm not the one over here calling people delusional.



Anyway... since we're talking "facts", you mentioned something interesting about residuals. I did a little test - I took 12 2016 GSFs and 12 2016 M5s listed for sale around the country to see what the average asking price was. Now mind you, the GSF and the M5 were not direct competitors (regardless of what confusion Lexus caused with their naming convention, the GSF was competition to a loaded 550i). Since it's hard to compare a loaded car to a car with varying options, I decided to pair it up against the M5.

The 2016 GSF had an MSRP of 85,380. The 2016 M5 had an MSRP of $96,000. 12 cars from each listed with an average mileage of ~45k miles, what do you think the average resale is based on listing price?

GSF - 67%
M5 - 56%

I'm sorry you had issues with your Lexus. I didn't have any issues with either of mine - drove my IS350 up to 145k miles with barely anything more than routine maintenance, and similar story with my RX350. But at this point we're just spewing anecdotal experiences. Since you want to discuss facts - there's a reason Lexus routinely tops the charts on vehicle dependability. They use the same, reliable, engines year after year.

Like I said before, I'm not claiming the IS500 might be better than the m340i. In fact I said the m340i is objectively the better car. But a NA V8 has a certain charm to it that is just hard to replicate from a turbocharged 6. You may not buy it... but to call people who value different things delusional is just being ignorant.

This is exactly my point; you just said you don’t care if intake/exhaust M340i is my cup of tea. So why should I care if the 2UR V8 is your cup of tea? People weren’t really even talking about the “charm” of the 2UR V8 back in 2007 when it first came out because Audi, Mercedes, and BMW made angrier V8 platforms back then. You’re trying to hype something that’s just not that special. Bring some facts to the table and realize strangers on the internet don’t care about your subjective feelings.

And I hope you realize the vast majority of BMW’s are lease vehicles, which results in lowered resale value because the depreciation is paid for by the lessee and baked into the resale price. Lexus is typically financed, especially F cars because there’s no lease programs for them. So the resale price of Lexus is more directly tied to the mileage. Did you realize that before you wasted your time drawing that pointless comparison?

Your poorly conceived notion of vehicle resale value is just more evidence of a deluded thought process, along with the argument that it was a good idea to put an antique V8 dating back to 2007 in a chassis that is 2 years past due for its generational refresh.